old-tank Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 The local gas stations finally stopped their 5-10 cent a gallon surcharge for pay-at-the-pump with a credit card. Now they started selling gas with 10% ethanol. It all started with WALMART and H-E-B (local supermaket chain) gas. I live 30 miles east of San Antonio and work there, so I can drive some of my modern vehicles for a fill there even though they can digest the 10% ethanol (the local gas is also 10-20 cents a gallon more than San Antonio).So, since Citgo is the only gas that is 'real' it goes in the old iron since my nailheads do not like the 10%...the beer is even cheaper and colder at these little Mom-Pop stations.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron65 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Almost everything around here is 10%...therefore, almost all of my old cars heat soak and start a little hard hot. I've just accepted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dan Cook Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 It's the same here, all gas is 10%. It started several years ago when they would only use 10% ethanol in the Winter months and switch to regular gas in the Summer. It seems nobody noticed when they started using 10% all the time.Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 From what I can tell, Marathon still sells 100% gasoline here in the Midwest.I buy it at the local chain, United Dairy Farmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gino70c Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Sorry to rain on your parade guys- Buying Citgo fuel should not even be considered. Let me remind you all that Citgo & Petro Express (another Citgo brand) is 100% owned by Hugo Chavez President of Venezula. He is proclaiming to bring the Unites States to it's knees by increasing the price of crude oil. Note: Venezuela is one of the largest suppliers to the United States, providing about 1.5 million barrels a day of oil and oil products. Nuff said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_buick5563 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Here we go.Buckle up, Fellers.Giddy up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/citgo.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 When I got my '68 5467 gas tank looked at last year, about this time, after 15 years of sitting, the mechanic said it was in decent shape and just rinsed it out good. He claimed the "old gas" didn't corrode much back then, but the newer stuff DID. His "fix" and advice was to add Marbel Mystery Oil to the fuel to help combat the nasty things that new/modern/E10 fuels can do to fuel systems. When I read the side of the can, it did mention just what he talked about and how much concentration would "do the trick."When "RFG" (reformulated gasoline/oxygenated fuel) first came out, the Chevron website had a very detailed discussion of it, what it did, fuel economy loss, driveability issues, etc. Back then, MTBE was the oxygenate of choice, later replaced with 10% ethanol. Ethanol has been in the blends for years, just not in the current 10%+ amounts. My '70 Skylark ran fine on it, back then, with few of the issues that the Chevron website mentioned, but the 3-5% loss in fuel economy was accurate.Funny things . . . when leaded fuel became unleaded fuel, it was mentioned that it took about 5% more base stock to build one gallon of unleaded than leaded fuel--which was the amount of the "shortfall" in the next fuel supply crisis back then. Oxygenated fuel is supposed to burn cleaner, but it seems not to, needing all kinds of very upscale additives to keep the intake tract and fuel injection systems "clean". LOTS of interactions that now need "cleaners" to "fix" so things work "as designed".Just some thoughts and observations . . .NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 My guess that if E85 is selling for $.35 a gallon less than unleaded, then probably at least the wholesale price of 10% is less also==>more profit or a lower posted price to increase business. Also Citgo will never be in the ethanol business. Aside from the crappy driveability and less energy of 10%, I have a real problem using food to produce a subsidized fuel.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 A local convenience store group (2 owned by the same person and his wife) have Mobil gasoline at the store. Their sign claims "No Ethanol In Our Gas", but I haven't researched what Mobil is (or has been) doing to get away from the mandated approx 10% ethanol fuel blend for our Ozone Non-Attainment Area up here.Ed Wallace claims that BMW Minis have been having failed fuel pumps due to some stations having too much ethanol in their fuel, more than the "May Contain Up To 10% Ethanol" pump posting. Fuel samples from the failed vehicles' tanks confirm (probably) E85 getting into the wrong tanks. Haven't seen this on our side of things, though, at the GM store.Regards,NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thadd McNamara Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Just a quickie...Citgo is the Venezualan nationalized gas company. I can't think of any reason to buy it.My wife was a dedicated Target shopper until she discovered that the company(target) is pouring huge amounts of money and support into Hammas and the Taliban...Man life was simpler when I was a kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Rawja, I don't think they read the snopes post.Maybe we should all run out and spend as much stimulus money on Communist Chinese goods from Wal*Mart as we can, to clothe our children and stock our homes. Oh wait, we've been doing that for many years. That's why all our factories are in the orient, now. Unemployment in Detroit is America's highest; FIFTEEN PERCENT and rising. We're saving money, now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 70 Electra Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 ...So, since Citgo is the only gas that is 'real' ...Willie,Why do you say (or how do you know) that Citgo does not have 10% ethanol? Since there is no requirement to label the pumps for "up to 10%" ethanol, I'm curious as to how you are able to be confident this brand has zero alcohol.Thanks,Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 GregThe other local gas is labeled 10% and I asked the station owner who asked his supplier and was told no alky was present.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINC400 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) I used to avoid any station with gas that contained ethanol. Initially it was places like Quickiemart or Speedway. However, many years ago even Mobil, Shell and even Citgo added ethanol. There has not been a single place in Chicago or the suburbs where you can buy gas without ethanol for many years. It doesn't seem to bother the '94 Buick much, but the '70's Lincolns ran worse and got worse mileage.I take that back, the '94 Buick just had to have a rather expensive fuel system cleaning not long ago. It only gets name brand gas and is floored frequently, so there should have been no carbon or other build up. Edited July 8, 2009 by LINC400 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 As I stated earlier, the 10% ethanol sold locally is probably because of price. In other areas it is mandated for pollution control. On my recent trip to the BCA national meet in Colorado Springs half of the fillups were 10% ethanol with gas mileage of 13.8-15 mpg vs 15.5-17.8 with the good stuff. In the past before ethanol I routinely got poorer economy from gas around major metro areas, especially if dispensed from vapor recovery nozzles. Gas with 10% cannot be avoided when traveling, but while I still have a choice locally it will not be 10% ethanol.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 My wife was a dedicated Target shopper until she discovered that the company(target) is pouring huge amounts of money and support into Hammas and the Taliban...That's gotta be one of the craziest things I've ever heard. It's so crazy in fact that I can't even find one looney out there on the internets making that assertion. I don't mean any disrespect, but WOW! Sometimes a little credulity is in order. Tell your wife to go back to Target, I hear they're running a sale on burkas this week. Given the choice I'll take Citgo over the rest of 'em. Lesser of the assorted evils IMO.Everything in metro NYC has been 10% ethanol for a long while now, no choice. It apparently is better for the air, but it is annoying to pay more for less, though 'round here we're used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dan Cook Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 All that about the Target stores is BS too. It's on Snopes somewhere.Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatCat Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 The only other thing that is BS on this subject is the " I have trouble using food for fuel " thought. If you ever took the time to understand the beauty of ethanol by visiting a plant sometime you would get the full picture. Here in Nebraska they are everywhere and they are important part of our economy. By the way farmers are the only ones saving this country right now, being the last ones to make a truly American product. It's hard to outsource growing corn and beans.As the ethanol is made, just as in beer or whiskey, there is a steaming hot sweet mash left over after distilling. That product is then sold to cattlemen and feed to create BEEF. Last I checked that was food. Nothing is wasted, clean fuel is made, the cattle love the product and the corn when grown cleans the air using carbon dioxide . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 The only other thing that is BS on this subject is the " I have trouble using food for fuel " thought. If you ever took the time to understand the beauty of ethanol by visiting a plant sometime you would get the full picture. Here in Nebraska they are everywhere and they are important part of our economy. By the way farmers are the only ones saving this country right now, being the last ones to make a truly American product. It's hard to outsource growing corn and beans.As the ethanol is made, just as in beer or whiskey, there is a steaming hot sweet mash left over after distilling. That product is then sold to cattlemen and feed to create BEEF. Last I checked that was food. Nothing is wasted, clean fuel is made, the cattle love the product and the corn when grown cleans the air using carbon dioxide .I will ignore you until you google "food vs, fuel" and become informed.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Food vs Fuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pphil Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 all the stations in nashville (or i tennessee) have 10% fueland my truck gets 22 mpg in town 26-7 on the road .......but on a road trip a while back i got 100% gasoline and my truck got 31 mpg thats 4-5 more per gallon (20 gallon tank) thats + 80-100 miles per tank.....so how does 10% save money in my opinion it dont ........just my thoughts on the subject......scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 so how does 10% save money...By reducing the number of people who need ventilators to stray alive, among many other air quality issues (semi-informed opinions about to be shouted not withstanding). It's all about reducing unburned hydrocarbons in exhaust gases, with the oyxgen content of the ethanol aiding greatly in reducing emissions. The use of American resources (grain) as fuel instead of buying it from the Middle East is (at best) a minor side benefit, with the unfortunate side effect of increasing the price of food.However, even that will change when feedstocks to ethanol production are commercially developed that do not use foodstocks, but faster growing cellulose sources. What is in place today is not the final solution on any count, either in terms of ethanol or gasoline. As the latter becomes increasingly rare and valuable the development of the former is going to be more and more vital. At that point the heat (fuel) content of the ethanol will become it's raison d'etre.Most of us will live to see the day when gasoline is no longer the dominant fuel used for transportation, that much is scientific certainty (again with semi-informed opinions about to be shouted, likely in simplistic slogans, not withstanding). What we are witnessing is the last gasp of that age, with remaining petroleum feedstocks stretched and preserved by any means necessary. Be glad of that, becuase it's keeping your car on the road that much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Call Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) WillieI live in Tulsa and my son lives in Houston. In Tulsa some Conoco-Phillips stations advertise 100% gasoline and a least one Valero station near my house has 100% gasoline. While visiting my son last week I noticed a couple of Valero stations in Houston suburbs advertising 100% gasoline. I think the avalability has to do with the EPA clean air requirement for different metro areas. Like 100% may not be available in Houston but is in Sugar Land next door. 100% gasoline may not be available in San Antonio but may be available in Seguin. The CITGO branded station may buy 100% gasoline form the wholesale distributor and the Shell or Chevron branded station down the street may opt to buy E10 from the same wholesaler.Back in the 70's all we heard from the envormental wackos and the government was we had to get rid of nitrogen based tailpipe emmissions. Has anyone else but me noticed the recent Shell TV advertisment touting the wounderful nitrogen additive in their gasoline? What happent to the nitrogen emmission reduction requirements? The government got E10 so nitrogen emmisisons is no longer a whipping boy to get their way.Not directly on this subject, but, recently on a PBS documentary they surprisingly (Surprislingly to me as it seems to be counter to the greenhouse gas hysteria) showed a study of plants where the soil concentration of the "horrible polluant" nitrogen was was doubled and the atomspheric concentration of that "horrible greenhouse gas" CO2 was doubled. To the amazement of the conductors of the experiment the growth rate and size of the plants doubled. Conclusion, if you increase the amout of fertilzer (nitrogen) and the gas necessary for photosenises (CO2) the plants will grow faster and bigger. DUH! ("horrible" added by this poster)Folks, google astomphere and check the the make up of our atomsphere. It's approximately 20% oxygen, 70%+ nitrogen and LESS THAN 1/2 of 1% carbon dioxide (CO2). OMG, the Sun may actually have an influence on our climate and not humans. Edited July 13, 2009 by Bob Call (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 ....showed a study of plants where the soil concentration of the "horrible polluant" nitrogen was was doubled ....Folks, google astomphere and check the the make up of our atomsphere. It's approximately...70%+ nitrogen....Although I didn't see this particular documentary you're probably referring to methane, not nitrogen. Methane is the other major greenhouse gas which is causing climate change.Although eventually using ethanol BTUs as a replacement for petroleum BTUs in fuel will be a great aid in reducing contributions to climate change, it's use now is mainly for reducing unburned hydrocarbons. As for the causes of climate change, I'd advise listening to 99.998% of the PhDs studying the subject at every major university on earth, and not internet speculation. But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurstGN Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Although I didn't see this particular documentary you're probably referring to methane, not nitrogen. Methane is the other major greenhouse gas which is causing climate change.2 words..... Cow Farts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 2 words..... Cow Farts! Two more words..... And Yours!:p:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Although I didn't see this particular documentary you're probably referring to methane, not nitrogen. Methane is the other major greenhouse gas which is causing climate change.Most probably referring to NOx .I too have wondered how adding nitrogen to fuel could do any good or not do harm.This thread was started to inform of the unlikely fact that 2nd or 3rd tier gasoline was the most useful in my nailheads. Ol' Moon is probably right: every year we are closer to the time we will no longer be able to drive these magnificent machines across country. Don't wait...Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Most probably referring to NOx .I too have wondered how adding nitrogen to fuel could do any good or not do harm. Doubtful. NOx is a precursor to nitrous and nitric acid, which are well known fertilizers in dilute form. Also NOx is in no way related to climate change, as it is found in very minor concentrations relative to non-reactive gasses like methane and CO2 before falling as acid rain.Also NOx in exhaust gasses are almost exclusively from N2 gas in the combustion chamber subjected to heat and pressure. The "nitrogen enriched" gasolines Shell is touting right now most likely use an amide modification of a fatty acid for a detergent agent. Although that additive likely does no good for NOx emissions, it's contributions are likely minimal. However the hard facts to state this for sure are closely guarded trade secrets right now.http://www.examiner.com/x-4824-Tampa-Sports-Car-Examiner~y2009m3d22-Nitrogen-Enriched-Gasoline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now