Guest Robin Coleman Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Okay guys, here goes again. When I was about 13 or so an old electrical engineer told me of a car he once had that did not have a transmission (in the usual sense). Instead, it had a rotating plate attached to the engine and the drive train was driven from this plate. The driver would use a lever to move the driven wheel closer to or further away from the center of the driven plate to increase or decrease the speed of the car. For reverse, the driver would move the driven wheel to the opposite side of the driving wheel. He may have even told me it was a "kit" car and he built it himself. I just can't remember. Do any of you know of such a car as well as when it was being made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Cartercars had that transmission system as well as many others. A friend has two of them. Very simple and I don't know why they stopped using this type of transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robin Coleman Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Beautiful photo John. It seems to me the old man said it would cause problems from slipping during very wet weather, but again I am not sure. Still, as you said, it is simple and efficient. There were some sharp folks around back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robin Coleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beautiful photo John. It seems to me the old man said it would cause problems from slipping during very wet weather, but again I am not sure. Still, as you said, it is simple and efficient. There were some sharp folks around back then. </div></div>Maybe simple and efficient, but certainly not practical. The constantly varying transmission has been the holy grail of automotive efficiency for decades (obviously, from the ad posted above). The problem with friction drive is the slippage. As vehicle weight and/or horsepower increase, the friction drive is overcome. New CVTs use a metal link belt with pulleys that can vary the spacing between their sides, effectively changing the drive ratio. Of course, it is still limited to lower HP vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Metz was another make from this same time period and I'm pretty sure they offered a kit car as well as a fully assembled one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robin Coleman Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Dennis; I am almost sure he told me he built the car himself from a kit, so the Metz may very well have been what it was. Like I said, that was over 45 years ago and my memory has faded somewhat. If there is any source for printed material on the Metz I would appreciate being directed there. Thank you very much for your post John. This man's name was Pat Dale of Augusta, AR. He designed the power plant there, as well as all the gins and power distribution systems. I believe he earned his EE degree around 1910. His last car was a very unique '51 Chevy salesman's coupe. The rear seat area and trunk were combined and covered with panel board. He carried his tools in that car arranged like a surgeon's tray. He never drove over 15 MPH anywhere. Until his death in 1972 he maintained all the heavy usage electrical systems and motors in the area. What a wonderful man he was. I learned much from him over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Robin, if you check right here on this forum under Metz I think you will find what your looking for. Check here also: http://metzauto.wordpress.com/I think the Metz Plan Car is what you are seeking and under the Metz forum is a link to an Automobile Quarterly article on Metz you can download on Google "Books"Enjoy, Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Robin, here's another site: http://home.earthlink.net/~metz1914/history.htmlHoward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VeloMan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I suppose Metz, Cartercar and Sears were the three most popular friction-drive cars. They all used an aluminum plate to drive a stacked fiberboard disc. It may have been the heavier cars in the later 'teens that killed the system. You'll still see friction drive on snowblowers, some riding mowers, well-drilling rigs, etc.Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The Metz "kit" was offered before the company offered an assembled car. (fading memory) The kit was called the "Metz Plan Car". You bought the kit in stages to allow you to save up the money for the next pile of parts. Related friction drive story: Back in the early 60s while riding my bicycle on a dirt road, I found the remains of a Hupmobile touring and a friction drive farm tractor. They were destroyed by a barn fire that must have been decades prior. I had never seen a drive system like that, so I really looked it over real good and the memory stayed with me. One rear iron wheel was missing and someone had snipped off all of the large copper cooling tubes in the cast iron radiator.Years later, 1970s, I drove by and both hulks were gone, so I figured they went for scrap. Just a week ago, I mentioned these to a local guy who seems to know about everything old around our state. He claims he knows where the Hupp went as a parts car, PLUS...the tractor was restored quite a few years ago and still comes out to some shows in western Connecticut. I was happy that somebody saved the stuff. He thinks the tractor is an Avery?.. I do recall the burned remains of a black rubber driven wheel running on the huge cast iron flywheel.Years later I had Metz cars, and wondered about that rubber part, compared to the Metz "pressed paper" driven wheel. The tractor had a very small diameter rubber wheel, so I still wonder how well it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozierman Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Wasn't a Lambert another friction drive car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Wolf Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The basic system is still used today in the shape of a cone.It push the Snapper Comet and the smaller Dixon ZTR lawn mowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 This is the "transmission" in my father's Sears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Hearn Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Some circular sawmills used the same type of drive system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Admittedly this is not a car but uses the same principle. It is our 1922 2 1/2 ton Plymouth 3 foot gauge railroad engine. Originally it used a Continental 4 cylinder gas engine but when it became worn out the then owner replaced it with a Ford Model A. Question to the owners of their friction drive systems, what is the material on the driven wheel and where could it be purchased. At some point this unit will be running again, most likely during my retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layden B Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Couple of selected pages from 91 page booklet, interesting stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dei</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Question to the owners of their friction drive systems, what is the material on the driven wheel and where could it be purchased. </div></div>There is a place that makes the material for Sears cars. I believe it's in Tennessee. I'll dig up the contact info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robin Coleman Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Everybody, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the collective knowledge of all the members here is stunning and very impressive to say the least. In my Harley restoring heyday, the internet did not exist. I can only imagine how much easier and better my restos would have been with a group like this to help me. Thanks to all of you!!!By the way, I am a retired locomotive engineer, so I loved the photo of the Plymouth narrow gauge. In my hometown of Augusta there was a shortline called The Augusta Tramway and Transfer Company. It was billed for years as the shortest RR in the world. In my time, they used a Plymouth and a Vulcan engine. They were standard gauge, and I rode on them often as a child. There was one mile of 88 pound rail there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The company that makes friction material is Paper Pulleys, Inc. 810 Woodland Street, PO Box 8155, Columbia, TN 38402-8155 Voice 931-388-9099 Fax 931-388-9099 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Hearn Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I used to tinker a great deal with antique tractors and still have about 10 of them (you guys will learn, no glass, interiors, chrome, etc.). The J.D. Fate Company was the forerunner of the Fate Root Heath Company that went on to produce the Plymouth tractor of the 1930's. Walter P. took exception to their use of the name, but Mr. Fate had produced a couple of hundred Plymouth trucks and a single Plymouth car prior to WWI and prevailed. The rights to the Plymouth name were sold to Chrysler and the tractor name changed to Silver King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb6673 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 in the seventies i had a snapper riding mower with the same set-up.just a much smaller scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 There was also a 5-10 Avery tractor built in 20-22 that had friction drive. Friction Drive Avery Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Steve, THANKS for the lead! I know this is generally for car discussion and will try to respect that but you know the expression "if you don't know just ask". And Robin, you are right about the knowledge that can be accessed out there especially due to the net. Sometimes I have to pull back and think, yes some of the hi-tech change is not all bad. As to the engine, a small group of us bought and moved it, one homemade passenger car (really not worth that effort) and about 2,000 feet of 30 lb rail plus ties over a year and a half period to someday get things running. Talk about more ambition than brains! Although, I grew up seeing my Dad take a 1928 Whippet Cabriolet that originally sat on a beach here till the wood wheels rotted off, back to restored condition. That little effort only took him 28 years and parts from coast to coast so I have to admit I come by this naturally and was surprised to find a few others willing to loose their minds too. Thanks once again for the response to my question. if anyone would like I have many pics of the engine and a bit more info, Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CarAdMan Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'm actually not sure what year this Sears Ad is from, 1908 or shortly after. RICK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarAdMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm actually not sure what year this Sears Ad is from, 1908 or shortly after. RICK </div></div>The 14hp engine is the later model, probably 1910-12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now