32 Nash 1063 convertible sedan

[F&J]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 7:54 AM, alsancle said:

  My general rules for picking colors:

 

1.  Canvas should be black or tan with a preference for black.  

 

 

This is the picture in the 1977 Automobile Quarterly book.   It is the only Nash car with the 2 door conv style, with a very dark body/fenders like mine was, and will be again..   I can't tell if it is all-black car, or if the main body has a extremly dark blue main body.

 

But, it is an earlier one, 1931, when they may have used it only on this much longer 80 series.  My car had midnight blue fenders, beltlines,  and wire wheels, almost black.  The main body color was a navy blue, as were the brake drums.

 

My car will have blackwalls, I already have them too, and it likely had them from the factory..

 

So, I held my spread fingers/thumbs to cover "only" those 3 light color wheels and whitewalls. :)  Yet, I still can't say if mine should have a tan top, or black.

 

What are some opinions on that??

 

 

 

No updates on the Nash as I am swamped with other shop work....but I do have the Nash sitting on the turntables, and try to work the steering back/forth twice a day; when I get there, and leave for the night.  Geez, now it feels great.  I will have other people try it when I get visitors that have prewar cars.

 

It's killing me to not be able to run it around the lot here to test it.  I have another flat, rotted old tire that won't take air.  I did buy a new 18" tube at N.B.Pease the other day, and wish I could find time to sandblast/paint one wheel and contrasting color brake drum, before putting the new tube and tire on.  If I get to that, I'll do a picture.  I can't wait to see the two tones together for the first time.

 

I did buy a quart of each of the original colors from TPC Global years ago, so all I need is some more time for "my" car. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alsancle]

I could go for that minus the whitewalls.  I like the rear mounted spare.  The tires also look too small.

[F&J]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

The tires also look too small.

 

Well, my car will appear the same.  I have 4 original wheels, and found 2 very close matches for the spares.  They are 18s but very narrow....because it's a entry level Six chassis.

 

If you could find the picture I posted of the 32 Six sedan that ran the Great race for decades, the SIA "drive report" says he switched to wider 17s, for better handling in the races.  I have no clue where he found wider 17s to fit the Sixty Series bolt pattern, yet still run the same big hubcap.  It can't be from a 70 Series, as Chad on here said his Dad bolted on a 1950s Dodge wheel on his 70, to haul it out of the junkyard.  My bolt pattern is the same as early Ford 5.5" bolt circle...not the same as Chads.

 

But to set the story straight;  Although I am an admitted "car molester"  , I set a goal from day one, to put the car back to what it "looked like" when built as best I can.... including interior/exterior colors, blackwalls, and no doo-dads added, except the 2nd taillight for safety sake.  I'm not sure if that was a 60 series option or not, but 80 and 90 series came standard with two.

 

One reason I would not switch wheels for the better look, is that I also set the goal to not try to make this car look "stylistically better" than it once did. In other words, making it something it never was... It's a lowly Six chassis ...but I really like that fact, as that kind of a suits a entry level blue collar person,... like I am. 

 

I am still not really excited on it's very odd proportions, as the doors are too long, hood too short, for that abbreviated rear quarter....but I never paid much attention, and never got used to seeing these body styles like Waterhouse did on big cars.   I guess my desire for keeping it the same, is that this car is kind of a freak thing, much like the LeBaron Model A that I posted.  An entry level car, although it was a more pricey "chassis" than a Ford/Chevy/Plymouth, but still a lower priced car,...... but with a rich persons custom body style.  Also, the optional dual trumpets and sidemounts add to the oddness of bottom of the line 60 series chassis.

 

If I were to think about making it something it is not, I would have purchased a nice 70 series 4 door sedan to "change this car to a longer wheelbase with better proportions"....but it really started to grow on me, how oddly this car was built in the worst sales year of the depression.  Kind of like the sales department said, "let's offer a very inexpensive version of a rich persons car" 

 

I think it's my favorite car of all I've ever had or flipped.  It's just so strange in overall concept, but the "front half" styling really still gets me very excited....every time I see it.

 

I feel so fortunate to have found it, and so close to here.....20 miles away !

 

.

 

 

[alsancle]

Actually,  I think the wheels are fine.   It is not the width of the tire that is the problem,  it is the outside diameter.  On 17 inch rims I have seen as much as 3 inches variation in outside diameter on different time manufacturers for the same 650-17 tire.  Just try to get the biggest outside diameter tire you can and it will fill out the wheel wells better.  I like the proportions of the car.  Waterhouse and Rollston are great,  but tend to be expensive

[F&J]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 7:54 AM, alsancle said:

If you know the original colors and you can stomach them consider it.  I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I have a car that was factory red (including the chassis) with period documentation talking about it.  I could not bring myself to paint the car red.

 

 

Well, maybe I spoke to soon on me using the original colors;

 

I took the day off to try to fix some road rash on a stock wheel, then planned to sandblast the wheel and one rear drum.  Then I would do high-build primer, sand,  then use both of the original paints to see how they look together. (pic of wheel and drum, shows a rag covering some lighter rustoleum blue on the drum edge that a former owner did. ...because it was clashing)

 

I fixed the road rash with the simple tools shown, then got out the blaster, but got a visitor friend who talked me out of the test painting. He thought they look awful together from the 1932 original remaining paints on both parts.  We tried different viewing angles in sun, and they changed, but still not good.

 

I said the dark blue on the rim seemed to have some dark green toner in it, which clashes with the lighter Navy blue.

 

Later, my Son came to see what I was doing...which was odd..    Anyways I asked him to look at those parts.  He said they are not good together, and he sees green in the wheel paint also. 

 

He has a young set of brain cells and came up with a perfect way to test the new paint.  He showed me the exact place to paint both colors...I think he found a perfect spot.  (pic below of that spot) It is the back edge of the rear body as it curves around by the trunk, and the beltline is close by, as well as the top of rear fender.  He says you will see the colors better as they are on flatter surfaces, but still curved to see what it looks like, compared to painting two test pieces of flat sheetmetal.   That beltline and fender will be the dark one, and navy on the body panel between.  (like original)

 

I'll do it this weekend and get the car outside for a look...and a picture.

 

 

[alsancle]

I think the yellow wheel color and the green/blue on the inside of the wheel work well together.  I think the blue and the yellow probably would look pretty good too.  It is the blue & green & yellow I'm not so sure about.  I

[Guest BillP]

This is one of the most entertaining and informative threads in a long time. From the heart, unusual and much more than, "I welded in a patch and then painted it, took it to my upholstery guy and well, here it is..."

 

Thank you, Frank.

[F&J]

14 minutes ago, BillP said:

This is one of the most entertaining and informative threads in a long time. From the heart, unusual and much more than, "I welded in a patch and then painted it, took it to my upholstery guy and well, here it is..."

 

Thank you, Frank.

 

I'm glad a few people are liking it or at least understanding that some things I need, I just can't find..  so I try to make other stuff fit. 

 

I was not going to post this evenings prewar car adventure as it seems too "Twitter or Facebook", but I find it really cool how it added some enjoyment to a lot of people right here in our area..

 

2 hours ago, F&J said:

Later, my Son came to see what I was doing...which was odd..

 

Any of you that have raised boys to their adulthood, might find this familiar... What are they really getting at?

 

I have learned that Kids often beat around the bush, and I thought there might be another reason he came down to see what I was doing.  Then, after we talked paint, he said "did you ever find the 32 Ford car cover (that I bought years ago for my 32 Ply convertible).  I said yes, it's over there, but why?  "Well, I have extra time to wash the Ford, and then we can cover it each time".  Hmmm, something is up .... 

 

Then he says "did you ever road test it again after you fixed the speedo cable?"  I replied "Yes, but I also fixed something more important, but I forget what it was" Then I recalled the generator bearing went bad, but I has NOS Delco bearings here and fixed it.

 

Then he says "The Ashford Dairy Bar has been packed with people since they opened for the season, I hear the food is even better now"....    "Maybe we should go there for supper".  Ok, NOW I get the translation...he wants to drive the hot rod.  lol

 

So I am really beat and overtired, so I said no.   He washes the car up at the house, then I see him dry it...and now standing there just staring at it.  I went up and told him to take it out for a long run to get more miles on.  Bam, he's GONE...

 

 

 

45 minutes later I was wondering....but he pulls in.  Running great, he said it is just a perfect driving/handling car, and that he went to one lake, then claims he wanted to go to the big lake which just happens to be on the opposite side of University of Connecticut Campus.  Ok, NOW I really get it...  He said it's Commencement weekend...traffic galore, thousands of students/friends/families girls "lightly" dressed for the hot summerlike day we had..   He said he got 50 thumbs up, and many people asking about the car, etc. 

 

So, I offered to let him take it out again...  Gone for 1.5 hours that time, going to see friends, giving them rides....and "Imagine That", 3 more trips through campus...  Here he is, tall, handsome, a 4 day old Florida tan, profiling for the college chicks  

 

At least he gave me an honest drive report, not running hot in that traffic, and then said two college guys with a ricer car and 3 girls in the backseat, tried to egg him on at a stoplight there.  He said he rolled out easy in first, then matted it, and left that car in the dust.. "That's my Boy"  he, he.

 

anyways one friend he gave a ride to, is a huge farm kid who has me trying to save one of the trucks from the huge dairy farm they run...a 34 Ford 1.5 ton.  My son  said he never stopped grinning the entire time....then had his Dad and Sis come look at it, and now he is so fired up about someday driving his 34 Ford.  So nice to help spread the hobby, or at least make so many onlookers smile a lot.

 

.

[alsancle]

One of the many things I appreciated/appreciate about my dad is he was fearless about letting his idiot kids take his cars.  As a teenager I had my pick of some pretty cool stuff that I could take for spin whenever I wanted (assuming they were in road shape of course!).   I'm trying to be that way with my kids.  Making sure they can drive a manual transmission has been a religious mission for me.  The harder part is keeping the cars sorted enough to make it home from the ride.

There was nothing better than being a  young guy with a cool car.  Our social pecking order revolved around what the car was not necessarily the guy that owned it.  Things are different now for sure.   Kids are more heavily scheduled and have much less mechanical skills.  Cruising around town on Saturday night is not what it once was.

[alsancle]

Oh yeah,  I think I already complimented you Frank on how great this thread is.  I really like those Nash Victorias so this is a fun thread for me even without the great education.

[F&J]

15 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Cruising around town on Saturday night is not what it once was.

 

Coincidence, ..but my Son talked with me for a good half hour after he put the car away last night,  He said he had a great time, and when he was cruising multiple times through UConn, he said "this must be just what Dad told me about cruising all evening with a cool car, back in the day". 

 

 

15 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Things are different now for sure.   Kids are more heavily scheduled and have much less mechanical skills.

 

My son really does not enjoy "The working" on things.  He is more of the "equipment operator", not the guy who keeps 'em flying.. Many times that can cause the person to never learn how to fix things, or diagnose problems.  He can run any type of vehicle, road plow trucks, construction, etc.  That is also his day job.

 

On the last run through the campus, heading home, the Ford sputtered and died, like fuel issue.  He was very concerned at first, but instantly noticed he could not hear the electric pump running now that the engine was quiet .   So he opened the trunk and said he laughed..  I had borrowed his truck battery and it's way too small for my tray.  All that hard acceleration, shoved the battery back and pulled the wire out of the crimped terminal for the pump power fuse. 

 

He had no tools to splice the wire,(which was really too short in length for that "lower'' battery height), so he called a local co-worker he had just seen fishing earlier and asked if he was still close by. The kid said he was home which is even closer, and he brought over a longer wire and tools.  They fixed it quickly, and the kid said "this is all part of a new build, drive it to find the faults".  That kid's Father runs a well known transmission shop, so the son knows about repairing, and also, his Dad has a 33 Ply coupe hotrod.

 

So we worry that if "we" are not right there, they are lost without us....but these two kids handled it just fine without their Dads.

 

My Son did say he had a great, fun evening...that was nice to hear after years of building that car.

 

.

[F&J]

I sanded the test areas with DA 80 grit, did some high build Acrylic Laquer  primer, then hand sanded it out with 400.

 

Taped off the fender and painted the "navy" lighter blue on the main part of the quarter panel.  I might have used too many coats to dry fast....... I only had light gray primer and I wanted to make sure the gray won't show through, which would make the color look lighter.

 

It's urethane single stage, but I used the tiny bit of hardener from a leftover container that is old.  You are not supposed to use pre-opened hardener, but why open a new one just yet?  So, maybe that is why I am sitting here..."watching paint dry".

 

I need to wait until I can tape off that panel, before I do the darker blue fender and beltline.

 

I pushed the car outside, but in hindsight, it will be not be facing the sun....I should have done this test on the opposite side.

 

If some helper shows up, I can tow it with a tractor and get it in the sun.  That might need to happen to get a real look at the colors together, as well as a picture for here.  I keep screwing up, because I don't take time to think about simple obvious stuff like this..

 

Does anybody know how "old color names" are converted by modern paint companies??

 

I got the two quarts out.  The dark blue has the correct 1932 "Nash" name.  Everglade Blue

The lighter blue should be the Nash name of Jennifer Blue, but the label is different name...see pic below.

 

So I decided to paint 1/2 of that brake drum, leaving 1/2 of the original 1932-applied blue, but I also sprayed clear to make it look perhaps like it was when new, because I thought the dull old paint may appear to be lighter??  I did this only to see if TPC got it close to Jennifer Blue.

 

What is your opinion on the brake drum colors?...Look only at the upper right of the drum, from 12 O'clock to 3.  That spot has less sun glare, and seems to match the 1932 paint? 

 

[alsancle]

The only way to really do it is have a chip analyzed and get the exact code.   No real way to correlate names & codes over 80 years.

[F&J]

Ok, I will put up the pics... but under protest.  lol

 

These pictures are SO deceiving.  I had all I could do in partial sun/shade, different angles, to try to show that the two colors were different "enough"!

 

In real life while taking these, it almost looked like they are the same, or darn close to it.  Changing angle of view did alter that.

 

The contrast is NOTHING like shows here, but how can I take an more honest picture?

 

 

Ok, because it looks like such very little contrast in person; I realized that the central big panel which is the very long door.....if it had too much contrast, it would look brash?...or too "in your face"?

 

Trust me, these pics "lie" so much that I shouldn't ask for opinions, because you can't see it the way it really is.. But I'd like to ask you anyhow  

 

Anyways, I am going with the stock colors for sure now.  So it was not a waste to bust my tail today.  Gosh...I am so rejuvenated to finally see a bit of shiny new colors on this tortured old car.  That is why I tightly cropped one pic below, to try to imagine the whole car is painted, and not seeing the primer places just beyond.

 

I did not sand the wheel or drum, that was a very last minute decision to paint them for a better test.

 

 

While painting, I think I saw hail damage dings on the top of fender... if so, that might mean it came from drier climate like Texas or Oklahoma?   This car just does not look like a northern or eastern car in many hidden areas.

 

I think I need some time off to rest. 

 

 

[F&J]

Some of the readers here seem to be OK with my longish posts, and some do, or don't, have a problem with "modifying" an antique car that even still retains it's original motor, wheels, features,  etc.

 

Shoes....  for your feet.  Let me start there.  You need work shoes.  You either go to a discount place and try some on, hoping they might "wear in" and feel OK.   Or, go to a real shoe store and get properly measured/fitted to end up with a shoe that fits YOUR much stricter requirements.

 

Ok, so we all wonder why we really don't see many, or any, early 30s or later 20s cars on the road, or at a local show.  All we see are street rods with modern chassis components.  I saw that at our local small AACA show a few years back.  I went to see stock early 30s and there were none, except for rods.  I like rods too, but where did all the stock ones go?

 

Theory:  The common reason is that the long time owners of those, no longer enjoy trying to keep up with modern road speeds on the secondary roads, and we often lose much of our upper arm strength in our older ages.  Some of these cars are just a chore to steer.  Add the traffic speeds that you cannot achieve without screaming the engine, and now the car just sits in a garage neglected, until your estate sale. No off color joke intended.

 

I buy off the shelf shoes, but I INSIST on two things on a early 30s car; it must be able to do 50-55 without screaming, and it must steer smoothly and have ZERO freeplay.

 

Some may now understand why I want my Nash to look as close to the day it was built; even down to the color that was on this car, yet I am not bothered by switching the rear end to get a wider choice of gear ratios......and, why I am not bothered by a non-stock steering box, as long as the frame never gets cut/changed to fit that.

 

End of this first post today is:   My Nash needed to be turned around 180 degrees into the sun yesterday, in a very tight area.  It passed the new settings on the steering stops at each spindle, as it turns way tighter that the original Nash Ross box did when new.  But!...as some of you probably knew already from hearing that I found some wear issues in the Dodge box,; The car steered like S----.  It was awful when it was moving, albeit slowly, but still failed,.... far beyond my expectations.

 

I refuse to drive a car like that.  Period.  I will not compromise, ever.

 

 

Next post maybe tonight; (with pictures)....... the Nash was properly repaired today, it now feels great.  At least as nice as that wrong way Buick box.  Yea... 

 

(the worn Dodge box is on the scrap pile now.)...but the car still has a 1932-vintage box, not a modern street rod box.

 

.

[r1lark]

16 minutes ago, F&J said:

I INSIST on two things on a early 30s car; it must be able to do 50-55 without screaming, and it must steer smoothly and have ZERO freeplay.

 

Some may now understand why I want my Nash to look as close to the day it was built; even down to the color that was on this car, yet I am not bothered by switching the rear end to get a wider choice of gear ratios......and, why I am not bothered by a non-stock steering box, as long as the frame never gets cut/changed to fit that.

 

Next post maybe tonight; (with pictures)....... the Nash was properly repaired today, it now feels great.  At least as nice as that wrong way Buick box.  Yea... 

 

(the worn Dodge box is on the scrap pile now.)...but the car still has a 1932-vintage box, not a modern street rod box.

 

.

 

F&J, I agree with you totally on the speed, and also steering correctly. These cars were built to be driven, and a few changes to be able to keep them driving 75 - 85 years later -- no problem with that. And if someone else has an issue with it, do what I do -- just ignore them and drive off in your functional old car while they are loading their trailer queen into their fancy trailer. 

 

I've enjoyed following your trials and tribulations with the steering box on the Nash, so will be anxiously awaiting your next post.

Edited April 30, 2017 by r1lark
finish writing post...... (see edit history)

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, F&J said:

I buy off the shelf shoes, but I INSIST on two things on a early 30s car; it must be able to do 50-55 without screaming, and it must steer smoothly and have ZERO freeplay.

.

 

Agreed on both.  This is why my affinity is with the big engined cars.   The downside is that they are both more expensive to acquire and more expensive to maintain.  Although if you move from the early 30s to the late 30s almost all eight cylinder cars will do highways speeds with overdrive or a high speed rear.    A late 30s Packard with overdrive will cruise effortlessly at 60/65.   You don't even need the 12, the super eight is fine.  I have never driven a 120 but I assume those are great drivers too.

[F&J]

1 hour ago, r1lark said:

drive off in your functional old car while they are loading their trailer queen into their fancy trailer. 

 

I have no issue with the old car lover who does a Senior Level car and is thrilled with just trailering it for others to enjoy.   I appreciate their superb efforts and loved looking at these at Hershey show-day for two decades.... Inspiring us to do the best cosmetics we can afford, on our "drivers".

 

20 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Agreed on both.  This is why my affinity is with the big engined cars. 

 

Not hard to see why many upper priced cars back then, simply "had" to offer the best on both accounts...speeds and steering differences....and during the worst car sales years of the Depression where innovation/improvement was the key.

 

Starting my post  someplace...before my final post on my actual fix today.

 

--Differences in steering boxes used during the "Decade of Refinement", The 1930s...

 

I will eventually find some time to post some cutaway shop manual diagrams of the 3 "basic" types in that one decade.. Give me a few days.

 

The three "typical" 30s basic design types that I know of, are:

1-The oldest design is the Worm & Lever.  The worm is just a screw type groove on a cylinder.  Then the lever on the sector(pitman) shaft, can be a simple single tooth, or two teeth, or three teeth like the Dodge box I tried.  These teeth get moved by following the groove on the rotating worm.  Because the sector teeth run in a rotational arc as the sector shaft rotates, a single tooth can "run off" or move away from the worm.  This causes the designer to work with a sector that now cannot rotate enough degrees to move the pitman arm enough to get a tighter turning circle.  If he makes the pitman arm longer to gain turning circle, he loses some leverage, and the steering feels heavy.  Adding extra teeth is done so that as one tooth leaves the worm groove, the next tooth is now engaged.  This allows more degrees of sector shaft rotation.  More degrees available, means the engineer can play with ratios better (IMO)

 

2-The Ross Design I am adding as another style... even though it is kind of similar to the above.  The Ross used a single(in the early 30s) tapered peg, that runs in a like-tapered groove.  The peg comes at the worm at a different angle of attack compared to the above style, which will make more sense with a diagram.  The problem is that the single peg very quickly wants to "run away" from the worm groove on full lock.  That is why my Nash had such a lousy, wide turning radius.  If they lengthened the pitman arm to gain radius, it would steer heavier. So, it's a compromise design IMO.

 

The Ross Company made a single peg version that had the peg spinning in tapered roller bearings. (also, a "solid peg" version, which Ross also made) The rotating peg design reduced the friction that you get with the a solid peg scraping on the worm groove,... Same as the teethed design, having those teeth "scraping" in it's groove.  I feel that Ross did bearing-type pegs, to reduce steering effort as much as possible, being that they were fighting the ratio issue.  Ross stuck with it's peg, with changes, through semi modern times.  They did come up with a two-peg design, and as one peg starts to "leave the worm" the other peg now engages.  I feel that was done only to get more rotational degrees of the sector shaft.

 

-3 The premium, best design in that decade, was the worm & roller. It has a roller wheel on the sector shaft.  The roller normally has two teeth.  Think of an empty wooden spool that thread comes on.  The two outer raised edges are what I am calling teeth, with a deep groove in-between.   That simple roller, very much reduces the drag that you get with a solid peg, or solid tooth, scraping along the worm groove.  It is a dramatic difference in feel.  I always assumed that this design was only from mid to late 30s and later....  I was WRONG again

 

Next post will explain how I was able to "fix" my Nash on a Sunday, without chasing for another box.  I need to keep these separate.

 

.

 

 

 

[F&J]

1 hour ago, F&J said:

That simple roller, very much reduces the drag that you get with a solid peg, or solid tooth, scraping along the worm groove.  It is a dramatic difference in feel.  I always assumed that this design was only from mid to late 30s and later....  I was WRONG again

 

1 hour ago, F&J said:

Next post will explain how I was able to "fix" my Nash on a Sunday, without chasing for another box.

 

Long post but needed.. with pics today.

 

Maybe 7-8 years ago when I knew the Nash box was destroyed by someone brazing the peg roller bearing solid, and a chewed up worm...  I was looking for a better 32 Nash box.  I saw a "32 Nash" part on my daily Ebay searches for "32 Nash".  I did not need that part, and I forget what part it was.  But the pictures showed a bare, engine-less chassis in the far distance.  It had a column sticking up but no steering wheel.. I asked him if the chassis might be 32 Nash? ,,,and if so, would you be willing to sell and box-up/ship a long column.

 

He said "it is an old hot-rodded 32 Nash chassis but you won't buy the box because someone cut the top off the steering shaft and welded on a 1960s type GM spline and threads".  I jumped on it.  He sold and shipped it dirt cheap;   I never asked for a picture, and as of today, I am glad.  I got the package and it was totally wrong design; made for an older unboxed framerail, and it had GEMMER brand cast on it.

 

So, I had no intention of using a wrong box as I knew I'd find the right one soon.  It was older for sure, so I assumed it was the archaic single lever or two tooth lever.  I then guessed his 32 Nash must be a First Series?  It felt stiff anyways, and I thought I could feel that the worm bearing races were chewed up and a grinding feel.  I stored it in my parts/tool room all these years

 

Friday, when I wanted to fix my flat tire to driveway test the Dodge box, That snowballed into wanting to go get one bare wirewheel to blast/test paint my colors, before installing a new tube and tire.  When I went in the tool room I spotted that box again.

 

Saturday while waiting for the paint to dry on the quarter panel, I got bored enough to go take that box apart. I don't know why.

 

As soon as I pulled apart the two-piece box castings...I was beyond shocked to see it was a "worm and ROLLER" style.  How the heck can it be?  I thought rollers were not invented till mid 30s!

 

I figured the worm races were pitted, but cleaned it all up.  The lower worm race ended up mint on the wire wheel, then I figured it must be a junk race at the top of worm that never runs in oil.  Nope, Mint!  I oiled it all up, set up the 3 adjusters, I could not believe that the high spot at worm mid-point was mint, I could get it easily to zero center play, and 1/8 turn either way, it gets play as new. 

 

Yes, it turns the correct way, and my Nash pitman arm fit perfect. (that is why I never cut the Nash arm up...just in case..)

 

So I went through the required measures:  I needed 8.5 ball travel, and it was 9.5 Wow.   At that moment, I KNEW I would try to get it to fit my car, even if the Dodge box was "sort of" OK.  I was positive I wanted this box with the roller sector.

 

My first mock up test today was where you see the wooden ruler on the "new" box, and the Old Ross box...and my trusty homemade 3 bolt flange that I used on all these wrong boxes.  I only had tack welded that flange each time, in case of a problem.

 

Look right under the 2" on the ruler; there is a red chalked stud.  I could not tell yet, but maybe that stud which is a very accurate adjuster eccentric to adjust free play...if it might hit the forward stud/nut that holds the box into the frame,

 

So I ground off the flanges, stole the great feature of the Dodge snout fitting snugly in the outer frame hole by grinding the snout to the 2-1/16" dia, then set it all in the car to see if it can fit.  The red stud was not too bad, but the next stud down was.  I took it out and used a short headed bolt.  I need to be able to get any bolt or nut off "after" the flange gets welded on.  Like don't paint yourself into a corner.  It all fits great,  I can get all the nuts or bolts out if I do the correct sequences.

 

Peed my pants frantically looking for the stock huge pitman nut from the original Nash box.  It's been off for over a year, as the Buick and Dodge uses a smaller thread nut.   Finally found it and dropped the front end down, and did not even use the turntables first, as I "knew" it should be awesome..  It was !  Boy, if I had asked for a pic of the box on ebay, I'd still be here stumped, as I never would have bought it.

I am pretty fricken stoked, fixed steering, and the cool paint color test..  

 

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by F&J (see edit history)

[F&J]

This last pic of the Gemmer box. 

 

This has some nice features that "only a mechanic" would appreciate... 

 

This is a "two piece" box housing, so it needs one casting to get closer to the other, to do the free-play "final" adjustment.  The red arrow points to an eccentric adjuster (it's locking nut is not installed yet).  This is so precise and fast, as a slight movement gets it tighter or looser free-play, and there is no slop in the adjuster.  Great idea.  The Dodge has a single long bolt that only gets it tighter, and if you go too much, you need to loosen it, then smack one housing back with a hammer.  It takes more time, and their adjuster is at the very bottom where you can't see it from under the hood, like you can on the Gemmer.

 

The white arrow is the adjuster to preload the worm bearings.  Not really a big deal, but slightly easier that most all other boxes that use the giant hex "nut" where the column tube attaches.

 

The yellow arrow is the oil filler.  It has the filler plug totally level when it's on the car, and is a larger hole to fill it with gear oil.  Simple ideas, but so much faster-easier to fill the box. Your funnel can now stay upright, and be a larger tip hole on the funnel for the thick oil.

 

Blue arrow.  I need to fix/replace that outer sector bushing.  Either the last guy never installed it deeper, or it somehow moved outwards?

 

I have no way to know what the box came from.  It might be a 32 Nash First Series, and if so, the quality and huge diameter of the outer column tube it had, perhaps says it is from one of the biggest/heavier Nash models like 980 or 990.  Like Alsancle said, the big engine cars were "better"  ???

 

I suppose it could be from the cheaper six 960, but I just don't know.

 

Lastly.... the new Second Series that first came out well into 1932 production, was the only one that used that exact Ross box, so much less than one year.  In 33 the box looks totally different, so that makes me believe there must have been complaints in 32?   Food for thought.

 

.

[F&J]

Posted July 10, 2016 · Report post

Here we go, on the road to victory....LOL

 

 

.............................................................................................................................................................................

 

July 10, 2016, I made that premature silly comment.

 

I played hooky again today as I just had to know for sure, this 3rd or 4th time.. geez

 

I found a 68-71 VW beetle steering wheel here, that I fiddled with to at least have a test wheel.  It is very small diameter and gives less leverage...so a good test.  I then knew it would be fine just sitting in the shop, steering it..

 

Had  to put the starter back in, which needed to be off on box removal.  Then find a battery, and set up a 1 gallon gas can tied to the running board.  Added water as it was drained for winter storage in unheated area....

 

Primed the long fuel line and pump.  Hit the column switch, pulled the starter dash knob, and it fired right up.  Cold blooded with no choke cable yet, and fighting the Mustang 2.78 gear, I easily made the very tight right turn coming out of the side door, and into the parking lot. 

 

 

 

The test to the lot; it is so light, I am stunned.  I have never felt a 20s-early 30s car anywhere near as nice.  Incredible. Your 5-6 year old Grandchild could drive it with no problem.

 

Medium dark skies; the colors look the same again, kind of like black fender and wheel, and a slight hint of the blue on center quarter. I like it a lot.  Sun is trying to come out right this moment, so that's good.

 

Hey, odd thing is an over-night HAMB PM from a 2+ year old ad, which I had marked SOLD on every part except the last one.  The guy said any chance you still have?  I did find it here, and when he does Paypal, I will hit the Buy-it-Now on the new 3.80 ratio gear set at $145 shipped.  Kind of like a free gear set...sorta   

 

I had looked it up earlier today, before I drove the car just now,..... and after feeling how "high" first gear really is on these older cars, It backed up my choice of 3.80 instead of the 3.50.  It will be fine I bet.

[r1lark]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 6:50 PM, F&J said:

 

 

I like the colors, enough contrast to see the difference, but classy like you would expect a car like this to have.

[F&J]

2 minutes ago, r1lark said:

I like the colors, enough contrast to see the difference, but classy like you would expect a car like this to have.

 

 

Picture is incorrect for sure.  My Son just arrived to see it for the first time, at a distance, sitting in the middle of the lot. (partly cloudy/ no sun).  First impressions from a distance is helpful.

 

He said they look almost the same.  The wheel, fender and upper belt look black to me on a gray day, but his eye says he can see that they are very dark blue.  That lighter blue is very dark in person, almost no contrast, which I think will "tone- down" the odd body style.

 

We talked about black or light beige canvas tops.  He says either way, but said black needs to have no shine.  I told him it would be like black dungarees, which he said is fine.

 

I might have some spare cloths or vinyl's from a friend who restored lots of cars.  If I have some beige or light tan, I will sew up just enough for a side view.  I am getting convinced it was the tan/beige...but slightly due to looking at the original color list shown below.  The stripe was Ivory. Does that mean the top was light, or not?   It is the bottom line above the white paper. 1063 model

 

 

I'm thinking about taking the summer off to whup on the car full time, like I did with the Ford last year.  It's just too much for me to do several car projects at once.  I rush way too much when playing hooky for a couple of days to work on the Nash, because I feel I should be finishing other peoples cars first.  Only took 3 hours Sunday to do this last box modification, going full tilt which is not healthy.

 

 

 

 

[Spinneyhill]

Can you take a good photos from different angles on a bright but not sunlight day and manipulate the colours in a photo editing program to see how it would look?

[alsancle]

I see you could get any color stripe you wanted as long as it was Ivory. 

[F&J]

43 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I see you could get any color stripe you wanted as long as it was Ivory. 

 

I blocked out the very long list.  Also shows Carmine as well as Cream....on various colored cars.

 

I found some cloth from that friend,  No black, but found a soft tan color.  I taped it as tight as I could to the top frame, from rear, to half way above the door, but not where the door window is.

 

I finally remembered my advice to others, when I say "does the complete car pass the squint test?"  Meaning, the brain, while trying to see the whole car, gets unknowingly distracted by one or two major things that stick out too much to the eye.  Not to be funny, but I never liked Playboy Girls.  Hefner insisted on the most massive oversized breasts.  Try a squint test on a centerfold, they still steal the eye, no matter what you try...and it spoils the initial first impression you'd get if everything was a perfect blend to the vision. 

 

I did that test with the tan cloth roof on dark paint car.  It failed, perhaps from having no whitewalls and having dark wires.  That back side quarter part is too big in a light color on a dark car, so black was finally chosen.  I need to get going on the car cosmetics, as it steers so nice, brakes nice, runs good, etc.  I drove it more; it is close to power steering as you speed up.  I can add more caster if it feels too light at 50mph.  Simple angle wedges between axle and springs, made for changing caster...I have some already.

 

2 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

and manipulate the colours in a photo editing program to see how it would look?

 

I tried that after you posted.  The picture editor adjustments won't let me change the contrast between the two colors,  it gets worse in B/W, for example.

 

At night, pitch black shop.....all shop fluorescents off, hold an incandescent drop light 15 feet from the car waist high , and it looks like the real contrast and color shades that I see when outside.  Move closer to 6-8 feet away, and the color shades and contrast look just like my picture did.  No clue why.  The lighter blue is the color that changes most dramatically.

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

[F&J]

18 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Can you take a good photos from different angles on a bright but not sunlight day

 

On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 7:29 PM, r1lark said:

anxiously awaiting your next post

 

17 hours ago, alsancle said:

color

 

Let the Martha Stewart in you, try to see what I need for a top color.   That constant changing medium blue.....     Bright-ish sun with the tan top pic.  That middle blue looked MUCH darker before I did the cropping/resize... dang it

 

The two black top pics; both when it got suddenly dark, and a few rain drops on the last one.  That makes that medium blue change the pics contrast also..

 

Can I explain my "top color" goal?  I want the car to look "entry level priced", not a fancy, expensive car.  That is because there are so many fancy stock things on it already.  My leaning to the black is better for my goal?  The tan seems to make it more dressy...like whitewalls and such?

 

Can someone give your impression?  Thanks for looking.

 

I can't preview this post to see the pics at full size before I hit reply, so I will edit here, to say how far off it is, if needed.

[36 D2 Coupe]

I tried looking at the two colours using cards to crop the images so that only the painted area and the top were visible. Doing a little extrapolating to imagine the whole car, I like the black top better. It fits better with the two blues. The tan clashes and just doesn't work to my eyes anyway.

Off topic, is the cleated wheel a car/tractor conversion?

[F&J]

3 minutes ago, 36 D2 Coupe said:

Off topic, is the cleated wheel a car/tractor conversion?

 

I tried to use the tractor wheel to block out some view of the primer colors on the Nash.

 

The tractor is a genuine Montgomery-Wards "form-a-tractor" kit made during the depression to convert an old car.

 

They made 4 kits that I know of:  Ford chassis kit, a T or A model, then the Chevy kit, and one for Dodges.

 

I never saw a Dodge one, but the Chevy kit is rarely ever seen.  This is a 29 Chevy roadster that sat as yard art for over 50 years.  I saved it from a metal scrapyard.  ...they had cut the radiator out, and just started to cut a few minor U-bolts that held the kit on the chassis...then they stopped.  Almost went to China, on a one way trip

 

 

thanks for looking at my colors....that is another vote for black

 

.

[alsancle]

I always vote Black and like it better here too but could certainly go along with the tan.   I really like the dark wheels and blackwalls and that is usually the biggest mistake guys make - whitewalls and light colored wheels.   A tan top is never a bad choice, but it might be the best choice.

[JustDave]

hello fj, just wondering about a dark blue top,dark blue would give a dark effect like black but would go with the color scheme you have in mind,just a thought,keep up the good work it gives us inspiration on are projects     dave

[F&J]

No I did not work on the Nash today, as I had to "go back to work".  I work for a couple of prewar collectors and had to drive an hour to start up 3 cars.  Anyways, I spotted a matching pair of steel sidemount tire covers.  I figured I'd never be able to buy the correct size from an generic Ebay ad....so,   I traded my work fee for these...  
 

Every single Nash sold in 32 came standard with steel covers, and were in many sizes for the different sizes of tires and rim diameter in the 32 line-up.

 

I never worked with these, so can anybody tell if they are correct inner hole diameter for my 18 rim?  The inner edge with the stainless ring, seems to lock against the area where a wheel weight is on a newer wheel.  The very outer lip is under the cover.

 

But, how close does a normal cover fit, to the rim edge?  Farther away?... so it can't rub on the rim?

 

These seem to be narrow covers for a narrow 5:00-5:50 tire, not  for a big car with fat tires.  I will try one on as soon as possible.  They won't slip over the spare tire that is bolted solid to the tire carrier.  I need to take the spare out, then slip the cover on.

 

Second pic shows 1 of 3 of a bumper thing inside to center the cover on the tire tread.   The other pic shows the edge of the inside, where there is a 1/4" punched hole. There are two of these holes on the lower back edge of each cover.  Is there a spring or something that keeps it tight, or what?

 

Thanks.

[alsancle]

Nice job.  Sidemount covers are impossible to find now and super expensive since the Indy region of the CCCA stopped making them.  You would be shocked at how much you have to pay for a set.

 

I can't help you with specifics but can give you some general hints:

 

1.  There are many cars running around right now with either deflated tires in the sidemounts or a smaller tire than what is on the road wheels.  New tires are just bigger than what they were in 1931 and they never fit.

 

2.  That picture looks like a pretty good.  You would want some felt on the inside of the mount to keep it from scratching.  I have seen lots of different fits.  Probably best would be if it just covered the rubber, then no felt needed.

[F&J]

11 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Nice job.  Sidemount covers are impossible to find now and super expensive since..........

 

 

I was pretty excited to see them there, on top of a stack of mixed single ones.  I thought I knew all of what was in this collection, but it's like "where's Waldo".  Bloomie had a beat up pair for a very big series Nash for $800+ on ebay, they might have sold, but were there for a spell.

 

I have another question on these covers.  I am starting to think most USA auto makers got these from one supplier?..  My Nash uses a stainless trim right in the center of the tread, like these have.  But Nash had the other circle trim in the middle of the sidewall, not where these are at the rim opening...

 

But, there is a raised bead right at that middle of sidewall, so I bet if I could find a source for repro stainless rings for covers, they would fit that bead.  It would be a 25" OD trim ring, about 1/2 to 5/8 wide.   I find it odd there would be a blank bead, unless these are generic initial stampings, then decorated to each car companies specs?  Not going to worry right now

 

Tonight, I jacked up that painted rear wheel because it has a better brand of ancient 525-550 that looks like a fuller size than others on the car.  Tread is not 1/2 worn, but not 100% tread height either.  It fits nice, but rocks front to back a 1/2" before hitting the two inside "side bumpers" that touch the center of tread.  It seems to center very well without fiddling. but I will add some 1/4" stiff foam on those 3 bumpers.  Plenty of room widthwise for the cover itself, into the empty wheel well on other side, so these are either smaller cars with 17s or maybe 18s, but I don't know if my 18 is supposed to have the entire rim edge showing.  But I guess if it looks OK, it is OK

 

If I get time, I will set that rear tire into the well and bolt it solid, for a picture. 

[F&J]

So difficult to find a "genuine original tire cover" on a Nash...something not restored yet..

 

Here is the monster 90 Series Nash I saw sitting in an open pole barn 35 years ago just north of Athol, Mass. 

That cover does hide the very edge of the wheel rim, and comparing the size of the center hole in the cover, to the wheels on the ground, the diameters of the road wheels look bigger than that cover center hole....so that means mine just might be right for my 18s.

 

There is that "center of sidewall" trim, and not at the opening

 

.

[alsancle]

Frank,  I'm sure you probably know that car has been restored to perfection.  I saw it for sale in the car corral at Hershey some years ago.  Actually the car that made me start paying attention to Nash.

 

Lyon made covers for many makes.  I think there was another one too but not coming to me right now.  I know of a set of original Lyon covers for the Royale that a guy has been offered 2500 for and will not sell.  A buddy of mine paid more than that for a Pierce Arrow set.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by alsancle (see edit history)

[DavidAU]

I vote for the black also.  

I think once you add the cream stripe between the Blue and black it will break up the solid look and it will stand right out whereas on the other hand, I think the cream stripe would be lost if you had a Tan top.

[alsancle]

Here is the after picture.

 

[F&J]

I played hooky from work today, but I stepped up to the plate and I feel that I saved a once-fancy old prewar from going to scrap.  Yesterday when hearing that they were "gone", but found that to be false, I made a serious offer for this shell, most of the parts to it, and several parts sedans in horrific, rusted and stripped condition.  Got the OK at 10am today, but was told to get this one out ASAP for some reason.  Here it is at my place this afternoon.

 

 

I can't believe these remains were trailered in the past, with just screwdrivers and even a plier handle, as bolts to keep the shell on the chassis.  Well, at least I now have more tools.

 

Above pic with white circle and arrow, shows exactly why I messed up with the wrong-way, side-steer 34 Buick steering box on the Nash.  You can see it is side steer, but the drag link goes under to connect to a reversing bellcrank for the new 34 GM independent front suspension.

 

This is not a 34 Buick, it is a Las....a former convertible.  Fleetwood bodied car, with emphasis on the "wood", meaning it's all bad.  I have a replacement oak wood kit for it but looks very crudely made, it may not be any good.

 

 

I am fairly familiar with these cars, so that would help, if I feel it might possibly be saved.

 

They run so nice and ride like a cloud, due to weight and wheelbase.  Many of the nice parts that were once acquired for this car, were used by me to save 3 others.  It was my decision alone, to rob parts from this car.   I hated to do that, but those cars deserved the parts to help on their sale.  So, there are things I would need to find, if this car ever gets saved for more than just a parts source.

 

Here is one I worked on.  I really think this interior pic shows how upscale these once were.

 

I was not ever wanting any more huge tough projects but twice in the last few years, there was the mention of imminent scrapping of the remaining hulks.  So I did what I did, without regret today

[alsancle]

I fell in love with that Lasalle when the Dragone boys were selling it.  One of my absolute favorite GM bodies of the 30s.

 

The key question would be how much of the car came with the body and how much spare time do you have?