Chrome Information

chrome.jim · August 3, 2008

I work in the chrome plating industry and while the company I work for will remain unnamed we are one of the top platers in restoration and custom car work in the country. I also supervise the technical aspects of industrial copper-nickel-chrome plating for very high end users throughout the world.

I am here just to offer any technical advice or information on the process that I can to the custom/restoration car community that I have recently become a huge fan of.

JFranklin · August 3, 2008

On my 1920's cars I want Nickle plating like was used originally. Is there any specifications or other things I should ask my plater about to get that correct nickle finish and thickness?

Reatta Man · August 3, 2008

Chrome Jim,

Thanks for your offer.

One question I have is how do you tell a quality shop? There is so much to that process that isn't seen, I was wondering if there is any terminology or standard that the better shops use?

Joe

charlier · August 4, 2008

Jim,

I am starting to shop around to have some chroming work done.

Some shops toss around the terms "Street Chrome" and "Show Chrome" when they talk about the kind of work they do.

Is there a standard process for Street vs Show that sets the two apart? What are the pros and cons of each type of work?

Welcome to the forums and thanks for sharing your knowledge.

August 4, 2008

I just had all my chrome done (bumpers, grille, hood ornament, emblems, etc.). The price of a chrome job is determined by two things; how much work is involved, and whether you do a copper process.

When our parts came new, they were 'production' plated, which means, nickel and chrome were plated on steel. The very early cars just got nickel, which turns yellowish when it tarnishes. Actually, chrome is so thin you see through it.

If you do the metal finishing (polishing), the two-plate process can be very reasonable and identical to what your car came with. Micro Platers Sales in Highland Park, Michigan does this work: Micro Platers Sales I call this two-plate process, 'street chrome' and they only do steel.

More refined, 'SHOW CHROME,' usually includes a base of copper plate which easily goes over pot metal or steel. Solder sticks to copper, so if deep rust or pot metal 'rot' was removed, they simply solder the low area with lead and file it smooth. Then they copper plate over the whole thing, followed by nickel and chrome. This requires more work and more steps which costs more money, but produces 'show-chrome.' The copper makes all the difference, and it produces an absolutely flawless job (but it ain't cheap). My favorite 'show' chromer is: Dynamic Custom Chrome (in Detroit). They do every kind of classic nickel and chrome plating. Look at the Ford bezel they did for my Customline trunk. This part has NEVER been reproduced by any aftermarket company because it doesn't go on a Fairlane:

After 53 years and before it was rechromed, it looked like it had a very bad case of teenage acne.

chrome.jim · August 4, 2008

Let me address the questions as best I can in an orderly format:

JFranklin: Nickel plating from the 20’s could be one of two things. It could be a Bright Nickel or a Polished Watts Nickel. Bright Nickel is the process of using organic additives to the plating bath; saccharine usually and secondary alcohols to allow the plating to be bright, leveled (smooth), and shiny once it is pulled from the tank. Thicknesses can be anywhere from .5mils to 2mils ( 1mil = .001”).

The other process that was widely accepted back then was to plate a conventional watts type bath onto parts and then hand buff the part after plating. A watts type bath is a nickel plating bath without all the additives to make it a Bright bath. It should be noted that Nickel only plating will have a “yellowish” appearance that will only become more pronounced over time.

ReattaMan: To tell a quality shop from a poor one is a tough call without having a tour of the facility. One way to tell a quality shop is that most of the better shops have an on-site chemist or lab that constantly monitors the performance of the cleaning and plating baths. It also helps if the company also does modern plating work for the decorative industry whether it be for automotive or not, these shops normally have more resources to bring to bear on issues the shop may experience from time to time. The other way to tell is just by word of mouth; using this forum or many others you should be able to do searches to locate a decent job shop near you.

Charlier: Different shops use different slang terms for the myriad of processes that could be done to work pieces. What it essentially boils down to is what kind of prep work will be done and how many layers of plating will go on the part during the plating cycle.

Rework: Is where the old plating is stripped off and any base metal imperfections can be smoothed out or corrected. Sometimes this involves “lead-ing” a part to smooth out pits and imperfections. Once the part is completed it can go one of two ways: Copper-Nickel-Chrome or just Nickel-Chrome.

Copper: Usually parts that have to be flawless will be plated in Copper first. The reason is it builds a “soft” metal layer onto the steel or aluminum that can be hand (or robotically) polished to a smooth surface. To actually plate Copper onto steel can be an involved process depending on which chemistries are used but I wont bore you with details unless you want them (aluminum and pot metal are even more involved). This copper process is NOT necessary and is usually dependent on how well the finish quality needs to be compared to how poor the base metal is. If the base metal is in really good condition it is possible to just put on some nickel and have a flawless part. Again, I would let the plater decide what needs to be done to ensure your cosmetic standards.

Nickel: After copper polish the Nickel will be plated onto the copper. Again, I wont burden you with all the technical details but it is essential that the consumer knows about the different types of nickel plating involved so you can request the properties you want/need on you car.

Bright Nickel: Is Nickel that comes out of the tank Bright, leveled and shiny. Thickness is usually between .5-2mils.

Semi-Bright Nickel: Is usually the first layer of Nickel put overtop the copper or steel. This layer of nickel can be shiny or dull. The primary function of this nickel layer is that it contains different chemical additives that allow for far superior corrosion resistance compared to a part with just Bright Nickel. This layer is normally .6mils thick.

Bright and Semi-Bright together is what is referred to as Duplex Nickel or a two-nickel system.

***there is a “newer” Nickel System referred to as Microparticle or Microporous this is a very thin nickel layer applied overtop the Bright which has very small particles in it. These particles effect the properties of the chrome layer further increasing the corrosion resistence. Again if anyone wants further technical detail just let me know. I am not aware of any custom platers applying this process to restoration parts.

Chrome: The chrome layer as stated previously in the post is a super thin layer (talking 5-10 millionths of an inch) that assumes the properties of the layer underneath it, Nickel. There are two main types of chrome; hexavalent or “hex” and tri-chrome. No matter what anyone tells you Hex chrome has superior visual and corrosion properties but tri chrome is more environmentally friendly and somewhat “easier” to work with on custom parts in terms of getting superior coverage. In the past there were issues with tri discoloring and if you had hex chromed parts and tri chromed parts on the same vehicle they would begin to look different after a while. Most modern tri-chrome baths however usually do not have this issue unless they are not in good working order.

Hopefully this answered everyone’s questions. If any other issues arise let me know I can answer them as well.

Friartuck · August 4, 2008

Chrome Jim,

I'll ask a few questions:

1. I'm considering a restoration on a pre-1927 vehicle which looks outstanding in Nickel. The hue in Nickel really sets off nicely for this vehicle, a roadster. Is there any nickel plating version or method that reduces or prevents oxidation? I've heard of tales of Nickel plating (I think in Canada) that offer a Nickel finish that requires little to keep up the bright lusterous finish. Watts Nickel?? Any truth or comment? Suggestion for maintaining nickel finish?

2. Can any real savings be realized if parts are sent to the plater already ground and polished/buffed? Care to put a percentage of savings against this?

3. Since most people can't strip plating off of parts at home, if there danger in doing repairs on parts where some light sanding/grinding was performed to accomodate the repair? In essence could someone do more harm than good?

4. Do you place any value on a customer that takes pictures of parts and includes them so that they can be used for quality control during the plating process? Would you give a customer a slight discount for doing this, and if so what format is best, digital on a CD or hard copy?

Chris

August 4, 2008

Thanks for the tech info, Jim. Chrome plating is very much an essential part of the restoration process, which involves everyone on this site. You address these properties of chrome: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chrome.jim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are two main types of chrome; hexavalent or hex and tri-chrome. No matter what anyone tells you Hex chrome has superior visual and corrosion properties but tri chrome is more environmentally friendly...</div></div> Our EPA has restricted auto makers to all but do away with using chrome in modern domestic production cars, and that is why bumpers, etc., are now painted-plastic. For a short while, Canadian facilities chrome plated our parts.

Hexavalent chrome is that bright-creamy chrome we all love to see on any fine car; the essence of every dream cruise. Unfortunately, the entire automotive industry has specified that it NEVER be used on any part, ever again (not even purchased parts). Sure, trivalent chrome is somewhat acceptable, but many of us can immediately see it isn't as bright and it has a tinge of color. It just isn't classic OEM chrome.

Our EPA demands to know where hexavalent chrome platers are putting their potassium cyanide when they wash it off... is it going down the drain?, are they burying it? ...yet another reason why chrome plating costs so much.

EBay offers chromed bumpers from L.A. area platers, for ~$225/exchange. (Around the Great Lakes, chrome bumper jobs cost two or three times that amount.)

California has the strictest environmental laws, yet their chrome plating is relatively inexpensive - because it isn't done there.

Caravans of Californians are driving to Tecate, and Mexicali, Mexico, to have all their parts chrome plated. (The guys sleep in their trucks until their plating is done, to keep a close eye on their parts.) This has been going on for many years.

Let's cut to the chase... A quality chrome plater will guarantee his job FOR LIFE, meaning, if you ever have problems with the chrome job, bring it back and it will be rechromed FOR FREE! The aforementioned, Micro Platers Sales, offers this guarantee at no additional cost. That demonstrates confidence in their work. They have been chrome plating here, since 1948.

Polishing and chrome plating requires many years of experience and education. Watching the process reveals very little to a novice. As with any tradesman, you can hire 'High School Plating' to do your parts, or pay a little more for the concours-professional with a meaningful guarantee.

chrome.jim · August 4, 2008

<span style="color: #FF0000"> See answers below in Red.</span>

Chrome Jim,

I'll ask a few questions:

1. I'm considering a restoration on a pre-1927 vehicle which looks outstanding in Nickel. The hue in Nickel really sets off nicely for this vehicle, a roadster. Is there any nickel plating version or method that reduces or prevents oxidation? I've heard of tales of Nickel plating (I think in Canada) that offer a Nickel finish that requires little to keep up the bright lusterous finish. Watts Nickel?? Any truth or comment? Suggestion for maintaining nickel finish? <span style="color: #FF0000">Watts Nickel is just the chemical base for most modern decorative nickel baths. Additives are then put into the bath to produce the desired cosmetic finish. In the 20's most places didn't have the technology for these additives so they would plate Watts Ni then buff it to a healthy shine by hand. You could request this look to duplicate the original exactly but most shops will just use additives to give the same cosmetic appearance. Nickel will oxidize when exposed to atmospheric oxygen as will almost any other metal. Some type of barrier coating would be needed to prevent this such as clear coat or waxing. There may be some other tricks used which I will look into for you. </span>

2. Can any real savings be realized if parts are sent to the plater already ground and polished/buffed? Care to put a percentage of savings against this? <span style="color: #FF0000"> I won't say its not possible but some of the stripping methods used at job shops actually etch the part so any hard labor and time you put into a part could be ruined within seconds. Also, it really is at the discretion of the plater to decide what level of polish is acceptable for plate.</span>

3. Since most people can't strip plating off of parts at home, if there danger in doing repairs on parts where some light sanding/grinding was performed to accomodate the repair? In essence could someone do more harm than good?<span style="color: #FF0000"> You absolutely should not strip off nickel and chrome at your own home. The chemicals to do so are highly toxic and would become contaminated with heavy metals after use. They need to be specially treated to remove those metals. (about 1-5% of the total cost for plating is put directly towards waste treatment and environmental regulation costs in the plating industry)</span>

4. Do you place any value on a customer that takes pictures of parts and includes them so that they can be used for quality control during the plating process? Would you give a customer a slight discount for doing this, and if so what format is best, digital on a CD or hard copy? <span style="color: #FF0000">I know some shops, ours included, take pictures of your parts upon receipt of them. This helps all the people involved keep track of them throughout the myriad of processes. If your plater does not do this already it may be something you want to do before shipping them in. In case they would lose some of them you would have visuals to give to them to help facilitate the shop finding them again. We would not give a discount as we do this internally I can not speak for other shops.

In the end Chris I understand that restoration. plating is expensive and you and many others are trying to save costs. All I can really say is pick a reputable shop and you will get what you pay for. There really are no shortcuts in this industry</span>

Chris

chrome.jim · August 4, 2008

Simply,

Hex chrome is still used on THOUSANDS of OEM car and truck parts everyday. Yes, it has real environmental hazards but these are usually mitigated by onsite water treatment facilities at the shop. For instance we test our outgoing water quality twice daily for heavy metals, pH, color, clarity, and a host of other things.

Also, as stated we do use potassium and sodium cyanide based plating baths (the Cyanide molecule allows for superior adhesion to some base metals) but again the cyanides are "destroyed" here at our in-house treatment facility. This process is also tested multiple times per day. We also are under pretty strict regulations from the EPA concerning water quality and air quality coming from our plant.

Just to clarify for some out there the modern chrome plastic parts can be either Hex or Tri chrome. Through a series of etching and catalyst steps it is possible to plate metal onto non-conductive plastics. Usually nickel layer, copper layers, duplex nickel, microporous nickel, and finally chrome.

In Europe they have a standard which is called RoHS (pronounced Ro-Haas) which limits the use of hazardous materials in the production of OEM parts.

(you would also be surprised at the color of some of the new Tri-chrome baths, they are nearly impossible to distinguish from the hex chrome but the cost is somewhat higher.)

August 5, 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chrome.jim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hex chrome is still used on THOUSANDS of OEM car and truck parts everyday.</div></div> Not at Ford, GM, International, etc. If purchased parts arrive using hexavalent chrome, they go straight back to the manufacturer. This is a commitment the companies have made to their customers and to the U.S. Government (EPA).

No doubt, small shops are still plating hexavalent chromium. I just had all my classic parts re-chromed with the same. When my car was made, a brand new bumper was under $100. Today, chrome shops are getting $600 to triple plate (Cu-Ni-Cr) my existing bumper. You can have anything done, if you pay enough money, (Do you like 14k GOLD?)

To say, 'ALL hexavalent chrome is banned forever' is akin to saying, 'all toys from China have NO leaded paint and are absolutely safe for our American babies.' Right... where are the cops, and who is paying them?

In the 1983, Ford PAID a contractor to remove and scrap all their tanks, annodes, rectifiers, etc., in their Monroe, Michigan plant, where they stamped and chrome plated Ford bumpers. Ford made that decision based on cost vs customer sentiment regarding the environment. Ever notice those little green leafs on cars? How much bright metal can you find on a new car?

Last Feb., International's engine plant (in Melrose Park, Illinois) received fuel rails that were NOT (specified) trivalent chrome, these were hexavalent. After much consternation, they wrote a special spec., allowing their company to use the remainder of that shipment ONLY.

Consider the many metamorphose of vehicle change over the past 100 years. I miss having lots of chrome as much as some guys miss seeing lots of brass, wood, or leather. Cars produced today, are painted with waterborne paint, lots of plastic, and very little steel. Soon, they will run on anything but gasoline.

chrome.jim · August 5, 2008

Well it may be that all PLASTIC parts are Tri-Chrome but we actively plate Hex Chrome parts for Ford and International. We are talking 400,000 units per year or more.

Like I stated before there are just some functions that Hex is much, much better at.

August 5, 2008

Well, here's what Ford says:

"...Hexavalent chromium – "hex chrome" for short – is a corrosion coating (used, for example, on nuts, bolts and brackets in cars and trucks) that the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration lists as a potential lung carcinogen. We did not wait for global regulations banning the use of hex chrome to take effect – we phased out its use worldwide. By 2007, <span style="font-weight: bold">Ford had eliminated all hexavalent chromium-containing parts in Europe and North America</span>. Replacement coatings have been thoroughly tested to ensure that they meet Ford's performance requirements." - excerpt taken from Ford Motor Company, Eliminating Undesirable Materials, 5th paragraph. Here is the link:

http://www.ford.com/microsites/sustainab...ign-undesirable

Here is the very first sentence:

"For more than 20 years, our Restricted Substance Management Standard has spelled out materials to be avoided or eliminated in Ford operations <span style="font-weight: bold">and the parts and materials provided by suppliers</span>."

Note: International Truck and Engine Corporation supplies all of Ford's F-series and E-series diesel engines.

charlier · August 5, 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chrome.jim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Charlier: Different shops use different slang terms for the myriad of processes that could be done to work pieces. What it essentially boils down to is what kind of prep work will be done and how many layers of plating will go on the part during the plating cycle.

</div></div>

chrome.jim, Thank you for defining some of the terms used in chrome work.

The slang terms "Street" vs "Show" chrome are too broad and not very helpful when trying to understand the process.

What I have been learning in this thread has helped me understand the process better and will help me avoid any misunderstandings

between myself and the company that will do my chrome work.

Thanks Again.

August 5, 2008

this is a good and well grounded technical discussion - thanks for the well-informed "inside look". The toxicity of chromium salts is not equal in all oxidation states. Hexavalent chrome, Cr+6, is the nasty one. It is not universally banned in all things. It is highly restricted, and banned in a number of places, including most OEM's material requirements, along with Cadmium. The OEM's had their own restrictions long before RoHS or its ill defined successor, REACH.

The resulting plating isn't Cr+6 or Cr+3 - its Cr. It's the plating solution that differs. The cyanide salt is a "chelating agent" for better adhesion.

None of this is why plastic is used instead of plated metal. That's a cost and weight story. Shiny plastic (generally ABS) is not plated at all - it has a vacuum deposition, and not normally chrome, in either +3 or +6 form.

Bhigdog · August 5, 2008

Speaking of toxicity. When I get my parts back from the chrome shop a lot of the parts need to have edge blobs etc ground off with a dremel tool. I wear a mask when I do this but always wondered about the grinding dust. Do I need to take other than normal dust precautions?.......Bob

chrome.jim · August 5, 2008

Bhig, you should always wear a mask while grinding metal or most substances for that matter. There is no real risk of plated parts being more dangerous than other parts. The exception would be Hex or Tri chromated zinc plated parts. There is some risk of leaching there but again its minimal.

As bkazer said, Chrome, whether plated out of a hex or tri bath is essentially the metal and the subsequent oxide layer that is formed post plating process by exposure with the atmosphere. The difference is in the crystal structure of the plated metal. Hex chrome is face centered cubic while tri chrome plating is normally amorphous (think sponge-like) in structure. Hence why Hex is normally more corrosion resistant and "harder" than tri. (If you are getting your parts Tri-Chrome plated tell them you want the crystal structure modified to face centered cubic for increased wear resistance-- just to get a kick out of the looks on their faces )

I am curious as to how the restoration market will change and develop over time. When we start seeing customers who want plastic parts fixed and plated or replaced and plated on vehicles here in the next 10-15 years.

Just FYI for everyone: while plating on plastics is chemically more expensive than plating onto metals the surface prep time is very minimal in comparison to all the prep done to metal parts. When you have a bumper plated most of the cost is in the restoration of the part itself NOT the plating.

Curti · August 7, 2008

I have two long plates that affix to each side of the hood which the lettering is chrome plated and the background is body color. Is there a chemical process that will 'etch' back ground hex chrome so it may be painted? Of course it would have to be applied manually and carefully.

Fred Zwicker · August 7, 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curti</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have two long plates that affix to each side of the hood which the lettering is chrome plated and the background is body color. Is there a chemical process that will 'etch' back ground hex chrome so it may be painted? Of course it would have to be applied manually and carefully. </div></div>

Here is some information that may be of help. Not a chemical process, but it works perfectly.

http://www.fzoldcars.com/Page_8.php

Fred

Curti · August 7, 2008

Are the Bulldog and the etching primer compatible with modern urathane paints ie DuPont Chroma Premier?

chrome.jim · August 8, 2008

Best way to remove Hex chrome is to use Hydrochloric acid. Need a decent strength for the process to work quickly. It would take about 30sec to 1min to completely remove the chrome layer and then you would be left with the nickel layer underneath to paint AND some toxic acidic waste from the acid with the chrome in it.

Not something I recommend for you to do at home.

Curti · August 9, 2008

Jim, how would you go about prepping the background for paint. Only the tops of the letters should be chrome. This is roughly

1.25 high and 14 long.

August 9, 2008

Chrome Jim,

Thanks for your previous advice and information. I have a question of my own for you...

Many restorers seem to be interested in "show" chrome, yielding a part that is far nicer that the factory work. My particular interest is in duplicating the original appearance of factory plating from the 60s-70s.

In dealing with bumpers, I am especially concerned with retaining factory die marks and other features of the base steel part. Many times I see (beautiful) chrome work, but it looks "thick" and it masks these factory features of the metal bumper.

I've been told to simply ask for "production" chrome, in lieu of "show" chrome, but I don't want a POOR job. I want a quality job that looks like OE parts, not "restored" parts.

Can you comment on the best process(es) to replicate factory chrome? What should I ask for to achieve this result?

August 14, 2008

Chrome Jim....You out there?

chrome.jim · August 16, 2008

Sorry for the delay in answering but let me give this a shot:

Curti: Do you still want the chrome look on the letters? Either way the part would need extensive masking I would assume to protect the chrome finish on the letters from the chemistries present in most automotive paints.

70 Electra: "Show" Chrome normally has a thick copper plate on it before it is nickel/chrome plated. This thick copper plate is buffed smooth before the Ni/Cr layers are added. This is what normally removes or blends out die marks and serial numbers. I hear with the costs of nickel coming back down there are some places that will put multiple hours of nickel onto a bumper as well to cover imperfections---while expensive, the chemistries used will "self-level" pits and bufflines with that much Ni.

To keep the original look you just simply need to go to a reputable shop and explain to them what exactly you want. For example I know that our facility has "fixed" errors caused by other shops in the past. One that sticks out in my mind are 1930's era Ferrari parts that were cast. Another shop had grinded them all smooth and plated them. While they looked good smooth they had lost their original appearance of a cast part and the owner wanted it fixed. We facilitated that by roughing the surface and plating it again matching the other cast parts.

You just need to be very clear with your wishes.

I also wouldn't worry about the quality of the production chrome. If you look at modern metal plated parts for the automotive or motorcycle industries you will find that the finishes are vastly superior in terms of brightness and quality than parts from the past. Plus structure wise they will hopefully end up lasting a much longer time.

Curti · August 17, 2008

Fred, I have ordered the Bulldog and the etching primer. I know the DuPont Chroma Premier will adhear to the primer, My fear is how the Bulldog adhears to the chrome finish. I will let you know how it goes.

A by the sea · August 17, 2008

Chrome Jim,

Hows your plating history?

As I understand it there was a progression of chemistry for the nickel plating.

Around 1900 they used one type of chemistry which at some point change to the dull or Watts process.

This was used through the 30's and then at some point they changed to bright nickel.

Do you know the years that the chemistry changes happened?

This is a fairly important concept for us car restorers.

I know the bright nickel was not in use for the early 30's Fords. There was a significant labor savings from not having to do the buff step before chrome. From various sources it is documented that Ford did not use the bright nickel process. The easy place to find this proof is the bumper print. The finish process showed a plate nickel, buff, chrome.

For guys restoring Fords of the 30's this affects the unpolished patina of items like the back sides of bumpers. Most shops will put on bright chrome and then the guys get the bumpers and have to do something to dull down the backside.

Another reason why restorers want the Watts process is it does not tarnish as fast. I know of a restorer that had NOS headlight rings on a 29 Model A and had the buckets bright nickel plated. Every 2 years he has to polish out the tarnish on the bright nickel and rarely has to polish the NOS. This is because the bright nickel is accomplished by adding chemicals that act as oxidizers.

Something else that everyone needs to be aware of when sending parts to a plater. The platers are used to making all the parts look pretty. This may mean taking away all the original details and changing its dimensions. In the case of some Model A parts this may mean taking away the original casting marks which can result in points losses.

My discussions with many platers at Hershey found all but two were ignorant to the original processes used by Ford in the 30's. So ignorant they they told me to go away and were not interested in learning my references on the processes Ford used. One well known plater not only told me to go away, but also told me to not send him any parts to be plated.

chrome.jim · August 17, 2008

Sea,

I am not familiar with the specifics of Ford's plating processes of the early 1900's but I can try some of my sources and can see what I can dig up.

Here is what I have heard/read about the history of decorative Ni/Cr plating.

Pre-1890's a lot of platers were using a Nickel Ammonium Sulphate bath at room temperature. This resulted in VERY low deposition rates which necessitated plating of the part for 4-6hrs then buffing it to a bright luster. Followed cleaning, activation, and chroming.

To my knowledge all standard nickel salts baths plate a dull matte appearance until the addition of brighteners be they organic (saccharine or alcohols) or inorganic (Lead, Cadmium, etc..)in nature.

In the 1870's-1890's is when we start getting patents showing up for Watts-like baths and additives. Nickel solutions using primarily nickel sulphate and then the addition of nickel chloride. Then came the patent for the addition of Boric acid to the baths and their use HOT (120-140F) to plate out of. The higher temperature and the addition of Boric acid allowed a much higher deposition rate without adverse plating effects. Even back then some brighteners were used but they were not as complex or powerful as today's exotic blends.

So the question of which bath was used is not necessarily a cosmetic one as it is an economic one. A bath that lets you produce 4-5 times the amount of work in the same space obviously becomes the bath of choice for manufacturers.

You are correct that modern nickel baths will tarnish much more readily than the old time baths and this is because of the addition of brightner agents. If you are using a pure watts bath you plate pure Nickel. When you use brightners you are alloying in the elements of Carbon, Nitrogen, and Sulfur into the deposit; all of which change the crystal structure of the bath. This will not leave you with a uniform nickel/oxide layer---this non-uniformity in weathering/corrosion is what produces the tarnished look.

It IS possible to duplicate this process with modern baths. Modern Semi-Bright Nickels and Watts Strikes will produce relatively pure and corrosion resistant plating but as stated before it will be dull and require a hand polish. This again brings economics into the scenario-- it is expensive to pay quality polishers to polish nickel. It also leaves the door open to plating issues...there is the possibility of the chrome not adhering (sticking) to the polished nickel surface if the adequate activation steps are not taken.

In the past most of these activation procedures used chemicals that by today's standards we would consider unsafe in that type of application.

I'm sorry to hear about your hard times at Hershey. I can offer no defense for the industry other than that a lot of plating history is mostly hearsay or what can be gleamed from prints and patents. My company does attend the Hershey show and I would hope that not only were we knowledgeable in the area, which I know for a fact our representative is, that we took the time to discuss the matter with you.

I just stress to the restoration community to act as good consumers and customers and make sure that the plater you choose understands what exactly you want to achieve. If he says he doesn't want to or can't do that then find another shop---that's what the free market is all about right?

If you have those Ford reference materials I would like to see them and you can contact me privately if you would like to pass them along.

CrestaMan · August 17, 2008

Hi Chrome Jim

I have real nice re-chromed 1950 Cadillac bumpers but i made the mistake of using bungee straps to hold down a cover over the car and they have rubbed the chrome off down to the nickel d'oh!

Can I get them just plated in chrome or will they need stripping and triple plated all over again?

Regards

CrestaMan

August 17, 2008

Hi Chrome Jim,

I need to get some parts re-chromed. Here in CA the price has gone up over the last few years. Would it be worthwhile to ship my parts to one of the places advertised in Hemmings? I'm curious if chrome prices would be cheaper in other states.

Thanks,

Dean

chrome.jim · August 19, 2008

Cresta: Some places will be able to strip the old chrome layer off and "reactivate" the part to put the chrome layer back on. Other places will have to strip it entirely. I would call some shops and ask the people--- try to get someone knowledgeable on the phone and ask them. A lot of places do this but don't advertise the service.

Dean: That all depends. CA can have really low prices due to their vicinity to Mexico and cheap labor rates but usually quality suffers.

In this business you directly pay for the quality you receive.

August 19, 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, here's what Ford says:

"...Hexavalent chromium – "hex chrome" for short – is a corrosion coating (used, for example, on nuts, bolts and brackets in cars and trucks) that the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration lists as a potential lung carcinogen. We did not wait for global regulations banning the use of hex chrome to take effect – we phased out its use worldwide. By 2007, <span style="font-weight: bold">Ford had eliminated all hexavalent chromium-containing parts in Europe and North America</span>. Replacement coatings have been thoroughly tested to ensure that they meet Ford's performance requirements." - excerpt taken from Ford Motor Company, Eliminating Undesirable Materials, 5th paragraph. Here is the link:

http://www.ford.com/microsites/sustainab...ign-undesirable

Here is the very first sentence:

"For more than 20 years, our Restricted Substance Management Standard has spelled out materials to be avoided or eliminated in Ford operations <span style="font-weight: bold">and the parts and materials provided by suppliers</span>."

Note: International Truck and Engine Corporation supplies all of Ford's F-series and E-series diesel engines.

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I'm curious as to why chrome.jim hasn't been responded to this post after claiming to plate 400k parts per year for Ford and International with hex chrome.

August 20, 2008

Most all the big companies totally elliminated hex chrome from their products (just like Ford announced). The only one time I saw parts with hex chrome come through (from International), Ford allowed International to use the remainder of their existing stock, but no more. Those parts did not conform to Ford's spec's, so they had to write a special-case, short-term specification with an end date. The parts happened to be fuel rails for Powerstroke engines; a part most people rarely see, or care about. I don't know how much International paid to have their parts chromed, but it would be a big 'hit' to scrap perfectly good rails because of incorrect plating, and believe me, Ford rejected them based on spec conformity.

chrome.jim · August 20, 2008

Since Bill thinks I am avoiding this question let me answer it the best way I know how...

I have just gotten off the phone with our International/Ford Business Rep. and here is what he told me:

Bumpers, wheels, and associated other parts for Ford are Hex Chrome plated, period. Hence why we do the job. He had never heard of the above linked document. After I read it to him on the phone he said they probably meant hex chrome passivates on zinc plated parts. [most places have switched to Trivalent]

Even most of Ford's (and all other major domestic auto makers for that matter) plastic parts are Hex plated.

There is no danger to the environment from a Hex Chrome plated part itself...its Chrome. The same as it would be if it was Trivalent plated.

Passivated are a different story: Hex passivates do have the potential to be harmful and now new research shows that some Tri passivates have the possibility of being oxidized back to Hex during the corrosion process. Hence why a lot of manufacturers are switching to Stainless for nuts, bolts, and fasteners.

So hopefully that puts this to rest. I do not know what Ford meant by the document. We plate Hex parts that go to Ford as the end customer as well as other OEM markets.

Bill, if you doubt the validity of my statements feel free to take a trip north to PA and tour our facility we would be happy to show you around and answer any questions you might have.

I did not reply earlier due to the fact that we actively plate parts in Hex for lots of Auto and Truck makers. I never assumed that anyone would feel as though I would be lying about it.

I have no reason to come to YOUR forum and lie about what we do-- what would I have to gain by doing that? I have just noticed a serious lack of plating knowledge in the area and thought I could help out. Inform the consumer. An Informed consumer is more likely to choose the highest quality/best value service-- that's Econ 101. If people are going to bring innuendo and accusation to the forum that I am somehow misleading the community or outright lying about something, I will gladly not respond anymore. But I assure you that is not the case.

August 20, 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chrome.jim</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...feel free to take a trip north to PA and tour our facility we would be happy to show you around and answer any questions you might have.</div></div> I would love to see it. (My folks are from the Wilkes-Barre/Kingston/Plymouth area, and I make that trip frequently.)

What's the name and address of your company? We'll set up a convenient time for both of us. - Dave Dare

August 21, 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chrome.jim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since Bill thinks I am avoiding this question let me answer it the best way I know how...