Painting/Por 15 Floor Pans- COntinue to sand everything?

[Guest adam_knox]

I got some feedback on the forums that the original paint on my interior (1949 Chry) floor pans is the best protector against the spread of rust. The floor pans had very little rust, with only surface rust appearing in a few spots. Of course the lower areas by the door have some surface rust. I began sanding and have a majority of the area with clean metal exposed. The only remaining parts are those difficult places, which some of them have surface rust.

I purchased POR-15 to coat everything. With the POR 15, the exposed metal is etched before application. Should I stop now, over coat the remaining areas with the POR 15. According to POR 15, it sticks fantastically to slightly rusted areas. I come from the school of "starting fresh." Since I want this car to last at least my lifetime, should I continue sanding like I had intended, or should I go ahead and coat (which would be swell, since it would save me lots of time!). Since its unseen and covered by the seats, carpet, etc, what is the idea for protection in the long term (with the understanding I may need to do this again at least once more in my lifetime...)?

Here's photos from before I started...

Let me know what you think...

[1937hd45]

POR-15 is good stuff, I put it on the tow hitch on the van 5-6 years ago and it still looks good. WEAR GLOVES when you apply the stuff, there is no thinner that will remove it from skin, you'll have to wait for new groth skin to peplace it. Top side or interior side of the floors is an easy job, underside is another ball game.

[MarkV]

I used POR-15 on my 1941 Dodge Coupe, just before it was in the Jan. 2008 issue of hemmings classic car, it works great! Use it! I did'nt put gloves on my hands, and that was a BIG mistake!

Here is the hemmings article with the pic. of the trunk with POR15

http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2008/01/01/hmn_feature15.html

[JohnD1956]

POR 15 is a great product, but I would try to eliminate that rust if I could before using it.

That being said, this does not look like it will be easy and I would suggest it does NOT mean eliminating the rust entirely.

[Guest adam_knox]

Yeah, I learned to wear long sleeves. Last summer I did the floor pans by the front seat, accidently leaned on the floor pans. Having hairy arms really stands out when they're enameled gloss black!

So just lightly scuff up that rust rather than remove it clean?

[Tom M]

Adam,

Make sure you get it free of all oil, grease, WD-40 (don't ask me how I know about WD-40) etc. and you should have no adhesion problems.

You can see in my photobucket pictures of my car where I used POR-15 on the frame, springs etc.

Good Luck with your project.

[JohnD1956]

I'd hit it with a wire brush. I'd also like to know more about using WD 40 for a oil remover. I'd be more inclined to use brake cleaner if I were to do that.

I was going to mention using "Metal Ready" on the pan before painting, but that comes with a consideration. That product is an acid and it will remove the rust but how would you get it off inside there before painting? On the outside of the car you can actually rinse it off, but inside that would make a heck of a mess.

On the outside you can also wipe the area to be painted with a thinner, although that is an expensive proposition today and my main concern is being careful not to get cut up on the sharp edges of the floor pan or winding up with acid, water or blood in some of the seam areas.

[Guest adam_knox]

You know, that metal ready does keep me up every now and then. I used it on the front floor pans last summer, and rinsed it with water, but I have this urge to scrape off the POR 15 to see if its all off, or if its slowly eating away at the metal. The metal was dry when I applied the POR 15 last summer, but I don't know much about the chemical reactions and the conditions that keep the rust process going...

Great story in Hemmings by the way! Tom, your restoration process looks so thorough! If I went down to the frame I couldn't tell you how many parts I would misplace! Just last month I was fixing up an old moped and somehow I lost the rear wheel, not the tire, the whole rim! Needless to say, seems like half the time repairing anything is spend looking for where I put the darned wrench!

[JohnD1956]

I believe the instructions say you can wipe the area to be painted and then paint right over the Metal Ready. I hope that is right because I did that on the roof of my 69 Electra.

On that car I stripped the vinyl roof off years ago and the roof slowly formed a layer of rust. Last year I stripped the roof to bare metal and then hit the top with self etching primer. By the next morning I had rust bleeding through the primer. That's when I learned about Metal Ready.

I stripped the roof to bare metal again, soaked the top with metal ready and a ran a wire brush over it but then rinsed it off. I dried it with a towel but within minutes I had another layer of fine rust. Almost a rust dust so to speak.

So I put the metal ready on a clean rag and scrubbed the roof without rinsing. I waited a few minutes with the car in the sun for it to dry and then I shot another coat of self etching primer. It was october when I did this and it was cold outside when the sun started to go down. but then I shot two coats of clear over the self etching primer. This was a last shot deal prior to winter and the rust did not come back.

The car then spent all winter outdoors and as of 6 PM tonight I still have no traces of that rust, AND it still looks and feels like I have metal up there. Of course some would suggest I may "have metal up there" for even tackling this project, but that's a different thread.

[Tom M]

Adam,

I hear you on loosing parts. Just make sure you tag it and bag it and put is in a box for safe keeping. Make sure you put on the <span style="font-weight: bold">do not touch or throw away this box</span>

A good product for getting rid of flash rust and scale is http://www.picklex20.com/. It is a bit pricey but you don't have to worry about flushing it off with water before paint like do with Metal Ready. Spray this stuff on work it in with a scuff pad wipe it off and let it dry overnight or us a hair dryer or compressed air.

JohnD,

When I got my car back from the metal fabricator it was late September, 2006 and the car was bare steel I had it sand blasted. It was to late in the year to do any painting so I ask a few people what I should do and they said get a few cans of WD-40 and spray it down. Well spring rolls around and I thought I had cleaned the fire wall off pretty good with Marine Clean and then Metal Ready wrong the POR-15 was pealing right off in places. So what I learned here is not to use WD-40 anymore for metal protection.

[charlier]

Adam, I have used POR15 on some of my projects, my daily drivers and trailer.

One thing I have learned over the years is that it is VERY IMPORTANT that one FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS when it comes to using POR15.

Whenever someone has had trouble with the performance of this product it is almost always because the user DID NOT follow the directions.

Personally, I have found POR15 to be an excellent product, especially when used properly.

[Restorer32]

You can purchase "Chassis Saver" from your local PPG paint supplier by the gallon at maybe 1/4 the price of POR 15 and I think it is the same stuff. If anyone disagrees please post the address of the POR 15 factory. For my money, POR 15 is just brightly repackaged "Chassis Saver".

[Ron Green]

I have had great success with POR-15 on undercarriages, bilge areas, wheel wells, chassis parts, etc. Key is prep which takes many hours if you want a decent finish. I used a 3M paint remover wheel and took all to bare metal quicky. I then used POR etch (after a good cleaning) to adhere the POR coating which I rolled it on with a small foam roller. Rolling gives a sprayed on finish and eliminates having to tape and worry about over spray. The etch will leave a powder like appearance and when cleaning after the etch don't try and wipe it all off as it is zinc and helps the POR to adhere.

POR cures through moisture and not heat as many think. If doing large exposed areas it is important if applying 2 coats to spread them at equal thickness, plus the 1st coat has to be in the same state of cure or you will get different shades (lighter / darker).

I had a master cylinder leak DOT 3 brake fluid onto my bilge floor which sat for 2 weeks before I discovered it. The POR-15 was not effected and held. For floorboards you probably would not need to take all down to bare metal. Zero rust (or peeling) 5 years and counting.

[Matt Harwood]

POR-15 is a great product and I have used it on many things, up to and including the underside of my mower decks. The important thing to remember is that one of the reasons it works so well is because it has great film strength. That is, once you put it on, it flows out really well to create a single cohesive sheet of material. Of course, that's also its downside; if it doesn't adhere well to the metal underneath, it will lift off in sheets, too.

The reason they recommend putting it over rusty metal is because there is a lot of "teeth" for the paint to grab. It doesn't stick well at all to smooth, shiny metal. I'd leave the surface rough instead of sanding it out, even if you're chasing rust. Use the recommended metal prep/etching compound which should neutralize the rust pretty well anyway, then paint the POR over it.

Hope this helps.

[Guest adam_knox]

So the metal etch neutralizes the rust? For some reason I was under the impression that the "etching" process was creating almost a light coat of rust?

I'll be trying the roller method when I do the trunk. Last time I used sponge brushes that held up like wet toilet paper!

I'd be interested in finding out about POR-15 packaging a generic, costs 36 bucks for a quart when I go to the car shows. It lasts a bit, but there's lots of stuff I know that could be covered with a good coating (like the hammock stand outside that has been sadly ignored this spring...sigh, when will the warm weather ever get here?).

[Ron Green]

Matt, you are correct regarding the "tooth" needed for adhesion. I have found that using the 3M wheel will give it the required roughness to stick, and just enough that once the POR is applied the sanding marks don't come through the finish. I used it on a lot of exposed areas (non sunny) and wanted it to look nice.

Adam, I just used some of the metal ready etch last week to remove some light rust on a piece of metal.

[R Walling]

PPG does not manufacture Chassis Saver; a company called Magnet Paints makes it

The price on line for Magnet is $88.98 plus $11.97 shipping.

My local jobber charges $41 a Qt and $129.60 a gal. for POR-15

The interesting thing about Chassis Saver is that they say that it will stick well on bare sandblasted steel. Also, no primer/prep coat should be used.

[Ron Green]

I wonder how Chassis Saver would hold up against brake fluid or chipping for that matter? POR you can give it a good whack with a hammer without it chipping. Chassis Saver certainly sounds user friendly.

[ex98thdrill]

When my dad ran the local Highway Department, he painted the bottom of a salt box with POR-15 and litterally took a payloader and dumped rock salt into the box everytime that it snowed. That stuff only lasted a couple of years, but how many of us would expose that stuff to those conditions.

The biggest thing with POR-15 is that ultraviolet rays will fade the paint. If it's something way underneath that you're not going to expose to sunlight and adverse weather conditions, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.

[JohnD1956]

I was working on my rims from the 56 today. Once I was down to virtually bare metal I used the Metal Ready. I noticed the instructions say to apply for 1/2 hour minimum and keep the surface wet during that time, Then you are supposed to rinse it off. On one rim I rinsed but did not get to blow the water off before it dried on it's own with another light wisp of rust. The others I washed and then immediately dried the rim with the air gun. Neither got that coat of rust.

By the way, the instructions say that Metal Ready coats with zinc-phosphate, a good base for POR-15.

[Guest JDHolmes]

I use two different brands, but the same formula as POR-15.

1. Degrease the area with a good degreaser. Failure to do this will result in peeling.

2. Knock off the surface rust/scale with a wire wheel.

3. At this point, I use a rust converter, particularly, Picklex. I prefer this because it doesn't need water after application. Others require water then full dry.

4. POR-15 or the like over the whole thing.

As part of the original post, you stated POR-15 etches the surface. PLease note that it does NOT etch the surface. A smooth surface needs to be roughened with at least a scotchbrite first for more tooth.

Once again, metal needs to be completely clean prior to application for effective use.