Can you imagine.............................

[Guest Skyking]

If this were Ford, Chevy, GMC or Dodge...............

Other problems not mentioned are rear quarters buckeling with weight on tailgates.

[Mark Huston]

Because Toyota is a popular auto company, and it is politically correct to own a Toyota, I do not think this issue will make the news the same as it would have had this problem existed with a truck manufactured by one of the Big Three. I recently read an editorial chastising Toyota for their declining quality control. The speculation is that Toyota has broadened their product line to the point that there is no longer the level of quality control oversight that there was in the past in preproduction design and engineering. I am afraid that this is just the beginning.

Incidentally, I did own a 2003 Toyota Tundra SR5 Extend Cab for all of 24 months and traded it in after only 24,000 miles on a 2005 Ford SuperCrew. I am very happy with my Ford, so much so that in the 26 months that I have owned this truck I now have over 56,000 miles of trouble free driving. I will never own another Toyota Tundra, they are not much better then owning a Tacoma. If you want a real truck, shop the Big Three and you will not be left trying to do a heavy job with an inadequate truck.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Can you imagine..............If this were Ford, Chevy, GMC or Dodge.</div></div>

It is.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will never own another Toyota Tundra, they are not much better then owning a Tacoma. If you want a real truck, shop the Big Three and you will not be left trying to do a heavy job with an inadequate truck. </div></div>

In 2006 the Tundra you bought was replaced with a virtual equal to the "big 3" trucks in size and capacity. No one makes a truck like your 2003 Tundra any more.

It is this new product type that is having teething problems unlike the previously established Toyota norm for new introductions. See what they do about it, and judge the company accordingly.

[Dandy Dave]

It is about time that Americans wake up and buy American. Eventhough some of these foreign products are assembled here, I cannot imagine that all the profits remain here. What would our boys that fought and died in WW2 think today about how things have changed if they came back to see the way things are? The Industrial line of equipment made by International Harvester and used extensively in WW2 is now owned by Kamotsu. They have basically killed off parts availibility for older IHC Industrial machines.

My children came home from school one day and asked me why we droped the bomb on Japan. I went and rented the movie "Pearl Harbor" After they saw the movie they said, " They were mean to us, Weren't they daddy. They deserved that bomb, didn't they daddy." All I can say is Thank God for men like Harry Truman. He did what he had to do to end the war. Looks like their after us again, and hitting us in the pocket book! Dave!

[1937hd45]

Next thing you know someone will say those Toyota truck TV commercials are fake, and they can't pull a 48 foot cargo container up out of a canyon. Dave, the PC Police will nipping at your ankles for mentioning those two life savers.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It is about time that Americans wake up and buy American. </div></div>

The Cars.com American-Made Index

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What Are the Top American-Made Cars?

Cars.com's American-Made Index rates vehicles built and bought in the U.S. Factors include sales, where the car's parts are made and whether the car is assembled in the U.S. Models that have been discontinued are disqualified, as are those with a domestic-parts content rating below 75 percent.

</div></div>

Check out #10. (And #2 while you're at it.)

[Dandy Dave]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Dave, the PC Police will nipping at your ankles for mentioning those two life savers.</div></div>

Let em come, I'll send em down the road with their bags a packing and with two mean old junk yard dogs nippin at their heals and old Joe, the one eyed Hillbilly and his trusty Double barrel Betsey, loaded in both barrels, right behind em!

I don't care what the Politically Correct Police think. It is the way I feel and I am not ashamed to admit it. In fact when the subject arises it makes me <span style="font-weight: bold">PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN</span> just to voice my opinion. And that's shooting strait from the hip pilgrim! One Dandy Dave!

[Dandy Dave]

The big question is, do all the profits of American built Toyotas stay in America for Americans to benifit from? Or does it go to a Japanese bank account? I could write a book on how I feel about where American manufacturing has gone. We cannot become a Nation of Service Industry and Thinkers or we will surely end up like ancient Greece. Manufacturing and Agriculture makes a country strong and is the back bone of a good economy. Not restaurants, bars, and loud mouth politicans. Sometimes I think things were better in a time when Men were Men. Bring back Teddy Roosevelt and FDR. We Need a New Deal! Dave!

[Guest Skyking]

This quote came from ReviewCar.com.........it says it all.

"What do you like about 2007 Buick LaCrosse

looks, handling, power, comfort, prestige, it’s a great car, if only folks would take a drive in it they would be sold. but you can’t sell what folks won't even look at.. thanks to the mainstream media and biased magazines such as consumer reports American cars are at a great disadvantage..not because of quality but because of biased media."

I said it before, and I'll say it again. It's all perception!

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It is this new product type that is having teething problems unlike the previously established Toyota norm for new introductions. See what they do about it, and judge the company accordingly. </div></div>

Toyota's problems are just starting because they want to be #1. Wait, you'll see more. The only difference they share with the Big Three is pride. They can't except problems......

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They can't except problems...... </div></div>

As an owner of one of the 1 million plus Toyotas that were voluntarily recalled worldwide for an expensive suspension redo without <span style="text-decoration: underline">any</span> governmental impetus due to a problem that affected less than 60 vehicles worldwide (exactly none in the U.S.), I think you may be blowing smoke here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only difference they share with the Big Three is pride. </div></div>

And the lack of pride so amply demonstrated for decades by other manufacturers has been a plus? Really?

=====================

This is childish. Every time this silly "<span style="font-style: italic">spit in the other guy's oatmeal</span>" line of pointless argument comes up I say the same thing. Characterizing the products of one company as worse does nothing to improve the quality of another company's products. If Toyota sold broken wooden rickshaws it wouldn't make a Chevy Malibu any better or worse.

This is how 8th graders argue.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The big question is, do all the profits of American built Toyotas stay in America for Americans to benifit from? Or does it go to a Japanese bank account? </div></div>

They go to the investors. Buy a few shares and see.

[Steve Braverman]

I teach 8th grade, and they make better arguments than this.

[19tom40]

Drive the Buick Lucerne and then the Toyota Avalon and then say why people buy the Avalon. It gets worse gas milage, is smaller and noisier than the Lucerne.

[R W Burgess]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Characterizing the products of one company as worse does nothing to improve the quality of another company's products. </div></div>

Dave, I think the point Sky is making is that the media is not playing fair by not publicizing these Toyota downfalls. As far as your statement above....It might not improve the quality of the competition's product, but it may same some poor fool from buying a bad product!

Wayne

[Dave@Moon]

Wayne,

Toyota had three models do poorly in <span style="font-style: italic">Consumer Reports</span> reliablility study this month, dropping the brand's overall performance from second overall to third on the list of all brands sold in America. I watched the NBC News that evening. This was one of the first 5 or 6 stories they covered, getting about 45 seconds of air time before the first commercial break.

When was the last time three poorly tested GM cars made the national news at all?

Media bias is the last refuge of people who don't see fact and result, only advocacy and rivalry. GM dropped dramatically on the same <span style="font-style: italic">CR</span> reliability list, with more than 1/2 of their models scoring below average, by far the worst among major manufacturers. Ford came out smelling like a rose on the other hand, with 41 out of 44 models scoring average or better. But it's the "bad" Toyota results you heard about. Some bias.

This is about some people who insist on seeing the car industry (and in many ways their country) as unchanged since 1958, and insist on rooting for their team like it's a football game. It's 8th grade behavior, or less as Steve pointed out.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wayne,

Toyota had three models do poorly in <span style="font-style: italic">Consumer Reports</span> reliablility study this month, dropping the brand's overall performance from second overall to third on the list of all brands sold in America.

</div></div>

yea, now that there checking them. Before CR gave them all good results on there past performance. What kind of a study is that? He$$, Ford made a great Model A in the thirties, why not use that past performance. It's all hogwash, too bad people believe it.

[Dave@Moon]

BTW Wayne, speaking of not publicizing this material, I did not know until today which car achieved the top spot as the single most reliable family car accross all categories in America in <span style="font-style: italic">CR</span>'s survey ths year. It easily should've been the biggest story of the survey, all things considered. Care to take a guess?

[R W Burgess]

Sorry, I got off subject here. I deleted my previous post. It's just that some things going on in this world in the name of pollution sets me off.

Pardon me!

Wayne

[ex98thdrill]

I would still consider a Toyota if they made one in a 3/4 ton with a solid transmission and engine.

Like anything, anytime you buy something new, you're buying a guinea pig. Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc. Whenever someone comes out with a new vehicle, you almost have to wait a couple of years for them to get the "bugs out of them." Once they get them dialed in and the problems corrected, they'll be as good as anything else.

I always ran nothing but Fords. In 1997 my dad had a new '97 F-150, and had nothing but problems with in. In '99 when it came time to buy a new truck, I bought a new CHevy C/K series pickup (old style), ran it 70,000 and all that ever went on the truck during that time was the brakes. No light bulbs, mufflers, starters, alternators, etc. Needless to say when it came time to buy a new truck, I stayed with Chevy. Being a diehard Ford guy, the double takes that I got when I bought that first Chevy was priceless. I had one friend who didn't believe that the truck was mine and asked to see the registration.

I guess to make a long story short, there's good and bad in everything. Everyone's experiences is what keeps everyone in business.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ex98thdrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I guess to make a long story short, there's good and bad in everything. Everyone's experiences is what keeps everyone in business. </div></div>

Thanks Ex, that's <span style="font-weight: bold">my</span> whole point!!!!! Company's shouldn't come around and say they have the best and then brain wash the gullible public into believing that.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Company's shouldn't come around and say they have the best and then brain wash the gullible public into believing that. </div></div>

Now it's a biased public's fault?

Name one car company that doesn't "<span style="font-style: italic">...come around and say they have the best and then brain wash the gullible public...</span>". Somehow it's not objectionable when its <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #3333FF">"When better cars are built, Buick will build them!"</span></span> or <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #FF0000">"Ram Tough!"</span></span>. Odd <span style="text-decoration: underline">also</span> how nobody seems to care when it's cars that are made by <span style="font-style: italic">European companies</span> (presumably owned by Europeans who look like us) that have good quality, and that <span style="font-style: italic">they</span> have the gall to say so as well.

No one's changed my mind one whit about this line of discussion in years.

[R W Burgess]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> No one's changed my mind one whit about this line of discussion in years.</div></div>

Dave, and that is why some of us own Toyotas, others, Chevys, and still others, Fords. It's free country, buy what you like, not what someone tells you to buy.

Wayne

[Guest Skyking]

There you go again twisting things.....

[RocketDude]

The preceding is a testament to the old adage....

"Never discuss Religion, Politics, or Automobiles.!"

There ain't never gonna be no winner......

[Mark Huston]

The Toyota quality control problems continue with a article that is in today’s Sacramento Bee about a “whistle blower” at the California Toyota/GM plant who has been harassed for trying to report problems of serious defects in vehicles produced at the plant.

http://www.sacbee.com/308/story/505030.html

[Guest Skyking]

And if you want more proof, go on some Toyota forums and see what owners are saying about Camry & Prius quality, on paint, fit and finishes.........every dog has their day.

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1DandyDaves</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The big question is, do all the profits of American built Toyotas stay in America for Americans to benifit from? Or does it go to a Japanese bank account? </div></div>

The profits go overseas, unfortunately. However, Toyota employs <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">a lot</span></span> of Americans, and pays them competitive wages without a union crippling them. The Tundra is made in Texas, I believe. The Dodge Ram is built in Mexico. Which is helping America more? Does keeping the overall profits domestic outweigh keeping Americans working and driving consumer spending, which in turn drives our economy? I don't know the answer to that.

That said, Toyota is a marketing <span style="font-weight: bold">juggernaut</span>. Say what you will, but marketing over the long term <span style="font-style: italic">does</span> have an impact on the consumer. They have all but displaced Chevy as "America's automobile."

Like it or not, the imports completely capitalized on the Big Three dropping the ball thirty-some years ago. How many young buyers today were raised on nothing but Toyotas and Hondas? Their parents permanently walked away from GM, Ford and Chrysler during the dark days of the '80s. Today, they won't even think about buying American because, like many of us here, their parents drove Toyotas, and that's what they drive (i.e. "My grandfather was a Ford man, my father was a Ford man, and so am I, and that's the way it always will be.").

The Prius has been a marketing home-run, driving the green message further than Al Gore and Greenpeace combined, and they were there first. Who remembers who came in second? In the future, I have no doubt that most cars will be hybrids. Right now, perhaps they don't make perfect economic sense, but the message that they are "greener" with no real down side has been driven home permanently. That also matters in the minds of consumers. Of course, it also helps to mask the fact that Toyota makes A LOT of thirsty, large trucks and SUVs.

<span style="font-style: italic">Try this: close your eyes and think of a big SUV--did you think Sequoia or Suburban? That's the problem: everyone else thought the same thing.</span>

Then there's the fact that Toyota just makes money. They have enough money to develop an <span style="font-style: italic">entirely new engine</span> to compete in NASCAR for Pete's sake! They don't have a pushrod V8 in production <span style="font-style: italic">anywhere</span> in the world, but it races with the Chevies and Fords every Sunday. Just another step towards being "America's carmaker" in the eyes of the typical consumer.

If you want to help Americans, don't shop at Wal-Mart. They're a much bigger corporate danger to our economy than Toyota. I'm sure many of you do shop there and your reasoning is that you can get what you want for less and your dollars matter more to you than to the economy. Well, guess what Toyota offers? A better perception of value, maybe?

I think the Americans have closed the quality gap to where it is negligible across the board. But the perception and their grim history will take decades to undo--longer, perhaps, than the time they spent doing all the damage.

Just some thoughts.

[Dandy Dave]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The profits go overseas, unfortunately. </div></div>

My point exactly. I would rather see an American CEO spending the cream of the profits right here in the good old USA than to send our hard earned dollars over seas.

Dave!

[Guest windjamer]

Been reading the paper/ lestning to the radio lately? Millions and millions and then some, recals on forign products. Every thing from kids polka dots to food. so much the tv advertized a small co. thats growing by leaps and bounds. I think it was buy usa or maby buy American .com Had about a ten min. artical on it I want to call the station and get the name and address.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The Prius has been a marketing home-run, driving the green message further than Al Gore and Greenpeace combined, and they were there first. Who remembers who came in second? In the future, I have no doubt that most cars will be hybrids.

</div></div>

Matt, as usual, all good points, but not to get on the big global warming issues, I think it's more important for people to be aware & concerned of the coming NAU. Because if this happens, saving the planet will be our least concern.

[michel88]

Skyking, what does NAU stand for?

[Guest Skyking]

PM me........

[rocketraider]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: windjamer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Millions and millions and then some, recals on forign products. Every thing from kids polka dots to food. </div></div>

Not surprising. American companies driven solely by profits and stock prices started using offshore production for the simple reason that <span style="font-weight: bold">those countries have lax, if any, government-required standards.</span> Consequently those companies don't bear the cost of meeting those standards as they would have to do in the US.

And the consumers who want cheap prices above all else are now getting what they wanted. I'll stop short of saying "what they had coming".

I'm waiting for the day Wal-Mart implodes because of this. They've already got themselves in a tax-evasion bind in NC.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rocketraider</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And the consumers who want cheap prices above all else are now getting what they wanted. I'll stop short of saying "what they had coming".

</div></div>

In reality, the prices arn't cheap. When NAFTA was started in the 90's, we were told they would be.......