florence henderson

[bbodine]

I just called my wife at "high school musical" rehearsals to tell her the news, even if it is just a maybe.

She is going crazy.

My cel number 903-271-7355

thanks

[Starfire61]

Wow, that's amazing! I can't wait to see her reply. Congrats all around!!!!

Chuck

[starfireelvis]

Glenn, that is terrific--wouldn't this be something.

Now, if anybody knows of a Willow Mist '62 Starfire Coupe, VIN#626M06848...

(that was MY father's Oldsmobile from 8/15/63-12/21/66; more on that at another time)

[Starfire61]

I don't know if I've ever seen a Willow Mist '62 Olds, let alone a Starfire. Somewhere I have the VIN for my dad's '62 also: a Garnet Mist Dynamic 88 coupe with the optional interior bright moldings & all-Morroceen seats. One of my earliest memories is going with my dad & hauling a Christmas tree home in the trunk of that car. That's another story, too.

Regarding the antenna on this Starfire- the two swept-back units currently on the car are almost certainly aftermarket items. I see a lot of cars with pairs of those at cruises- it must have been a big thing back then???

At least nobody hacked-up the dash & interior for some super-duper-mega-stereo system.... did they?

Anyway, the correct power antenna is on the passenger's rear fender. There is one mounting bracket that runs from the base of the unit to the trunk pan. When removing the antenna, this bracket usually comes out with the whole assembly, which is probably why there's not much there to see.

At the top, the unit mounts to the fender with a fancy collar nut & a rubber washer. It all comes off when the assembly is removed.

If you look at the trunk pan adjacent to where the antenna would mount, you should see two small holes where the bracket attached. You may also see the wiring harness & the antenna lead tucked into the well between the trunk floor & rear quarter. If your cardboard & liner is intact, much of this will be hidden from view.

I've posted a couple pics. The red trunk is on a '61 & shows the finished installation. The blue trunk is on a '62- notice it's a little different in the position of the attaching bracket, but the '62 pic still gives a good illustration of how the assembly connects to the trunk floor.

Chuck

[seyman]

Sound of Music is listed as a 1965 movie, may have been actually filmed a little earlier. Would Olds have given her a used car?

[Starfire61]

Apparently she played Maria in the national touring production after the musical debuted on Broadway in 1959.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sound_of_Music

[Steve Moskowitz]

I have been waiting for this day. Finally the OCA forum proves the value of having an internet forum! For some reason, members of OCA do not seem to embrace this nor does the leadership of the club feel compelled to do so either.

Just my opinion but these types of forums bring members together in so many ways. They HELP members! Look how active the BCA is! They have a phenomenal following on this site. I absolutely know there can be some pain associated with the policing and dealing with disgruntled members but that is a duty club officials need to accept.

Glenn and I have both struggled with this issue and I have even addressed the OCA in Texas at the national meet. Sad, as I just see an opportunity wasting.

Of course now I wonder if I need to start posts out with Marilyn Monroe, J Lo, Angelina Jolie or some other woman to get your attention!

[Oldsfan]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 61Oldsguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm uncertain if all '61 Starfires were Lansing-built. If they were, this car falls close to the halfway point in production, as about 7600 were built in total.</div></div>

Here's something interesting I learned today regarding '61 Starfire production:

Paul

[rocketraider]

Saw that too and thought interesting. My Pontiac bud's comment was "Kinda blingy, ain't it?"

Anyway, for those who have waited...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Glenn,

Yes you may copy my email address to AACA Oldsmobile Forums.

Sincerely,

Florence Henderson </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Glen

Thanks for your note. I think the car you are referring to is the one Oldsmobile lent to me while I was doing The Sound of Music. It was originally pale blue as I remember.

I have always had a special place in my heart for Oldsmobile as I was "Lucille" for several of their industrial shows, as well as doing my TV commercials.

I'm glad you are a fan and I appreciate your interest.

Sincerely,

Florence Henderson </div></div>

Her contact email is Flofanmail@aol.com . Since Florence was gracious enough to respond to our questions, I believe personal thanks from all of us, identifying as AACA/Oldsmobile Forums members, are in order. Bodine, I hope you can talk to Florence about your car and get even more details.

[bbodine]

Rocketrader-

I just wanted you to know that i wrote Florence a letter of thanks for her reply to your request. Of course it would be nice if i get some kind of acknowledgment from her, but I know better than to expect it. It's just amazing to me that some little off-hand remark passed from buyer to buyer for 47 years ended up being true. Of course I wish i could get my hands on paperwork or pictures to back it up, but the odds are slim.

After the euphoria of the discovery wore off i was back to trying to figure out what to do about these blasted heads. I know they are going to have to be repaired, but although i have found one shop that says they "think" they can, they don't give me much assurance. Is head repair a common thing among collectors? Is it super expensive? I know that one head has two about half inch tiny hairline cracks that have not seemed to cause any damage. The crack in the other head is maybe an inch and a half hairline, enough to allow some corrosion from water, i guess.

The shop i had taken them two to check out took them apart and dipped them - when they saw the cracks they just told me to come pick them up. They told me i would have to get new heads, apparently not realizing that they are next to impossible to replace. Well, anyway, the springs, retaining clips, and valves, etc. were all taken off and are now in a big pile. The springs are obviously worn and i assume the valves are also.

Do i take the springs,valves, clips, etc.. in with the heads when i finally find a place that can do the work. Should i go ahead and order valves and springs? Please forgive my ignorance.

Thanks as always

[dlh61olds]

I have a pair of Starfire heads that you are welcome to for the freight. I live in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

I also have a 1964 394 engine from a 98 you can have.

It was running when I parted the car out. I would rather just give them away than junk them.

Give me a call if you are interested 719 634 4238.

Dave Holt

[dlh61olds]

Here is a pic of a 1962 Starfire stationwagon. This is somewhere in Canada. I saved the pic because I had never heard of one. This looks to me to be a factory job, but who knows ????

Dave Holt

[bbodine]

Thanks for the help Mr. Holt. You are an ace.

Everybody thought that we were crazy to drive all the way to Colorado from Dallas for parts, but we would do it again tomorrow.

Your 61 starfire could not have looked any better when it was new. I had not intended to do much re-chroming, but seeing how good it can look has changed my mind.

Bart

[rocketraider]

Happy Birthday and Valentine's Day to our lady Florence Henderson today, February 14!

[Centurion]

Glenn, thanks for bringing this topic back to the top with the Florence Henderson birthday greeting.

I missed this topic previously, and I must say that this is one of the best and most fascinating topics I've seen on the AACA forums! Great job, Olds guys!

As I've commented to others, it's the history behind each of our old cars that makes them special. Sounds like this particular Oldsmobile has a rather remarkable history.

[bbodine]

Florence the Starfire is running again. After lots of hunting down parts, rebuilt heads, rings, bearings, bushings and gaskets the 61 starfire once owned by Florence Henderson is running great. We have now driven it about 100 miles with the motor back in. The transmission has been rebuilt and now we are looking at body work. Every step of the way I have expected thought not actually met with disaster. I love this old car.

My current question if anybody is reading has to do with setting the idle speed. My idle speed is too fast and I have adjusted it down as far as I can go ( i think ). It is the 4gc. The only problem this is causing is just a little too harsh of a shift down to 1st - not bad - but not quite right. The idle, according to the antique tach which might not be correct, is about 950 after warming up. The carb has been rebuilt to spec (several years ago). The choke is set correctly but i don't quite understand how it works. It has a copper tube that goes into the manifold, but it doe not seem to "work" the choke spring. I mean there is no "piston". It just screws onto the choke housing. There is no place for the manifold heat to go into the choke housing. Hope this makes sense to somebody.

Anybody have any ideas? On a side note, we had my daughter's senior pictures taken saturday. The photographer saw Florence and decided to take some on and around the car, rust and all.

[Ron of Chicago]

Glad to hear that you have made some good progress with the car. Best of luck with the body work.

There is a very small vacuum passage from the carb body to the inside of the choke housing. Air is drawn through the tube and into the housing. That hot air will react on the choke spring to un-wind the choke. The piston you speak of (I think mostly Ford carbs had) was an internal choke pull-off. Does the tube to the choke housing get hot? (Be very careful as you could burn yourself very easily.)

You need to be sure that the fast idle cam is not stopping the throttle from closing completely. If it is, you could have a choke not opening all the way or the fast idle srew is maladjusted.

If the fast idle screw and the curb idle screw are not touching anything and the idle is still to fast, you may have warped throttle plates not allowing them to close all the way. Or binding throttle linkage.

Others may have more suggestions.

Keep us posted and pitures as you get this car shaped up.

[Oldsfan]

Do you have a shop manual for this car? If not, you need one. Get a good tach and get the idle set correctly, then use the shop manual and adjust the transmission linkage properly. Most likely your linkage is out of adjustment, causing the harsh shift. Slim Jims are very sensitive to linkage adjustment (and fluid level).

Paul

[rocketraider]

Dangit- this got lost in the daily corporate email barrage and I forgot to transfer it over here- Got it Feb 20.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Glen and all the AACA gang,

thanks for your birthday and valentine wishes. I had a great day, made better by you.

Love,

Florence Henderson

In a message dated 2/14/2008 4:41:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, glen.williamson@pgnmail.com writes:

Happy Birthday and Valentines’ Day to our favorite TV Mom and Olds driver! Hope it’s the best ever and you have many, many more!

Glenn Williamson and the AACA gang</div></div>

[Ron of Chicago]

I'm impressed Glen.

You must have made an impression on her. It's really nice to see that see is nice enough to say thanks. I wouldn't make book on most celebrity types to respond.

It was a nice thing for you to send those good wishes to her.

Ron

[dlh61olds]

Here is another 1961 Starfire with the unusual stainless trim

surrounding the aluminum trim. ebay item 360090632268

Dave Holt

[Starfire61]

This isn't the same trim. The trim on the Florence Henderson car actually outlined the cove & had a different profile. The extra trim on this car is simply framing the existing aluminum panels.

Look at where the trim comes together at the back of the rear quarter. There's no finishing piece capping it off, instead it just butts together. This stuff looks like the peel-and-stick plastic trim they sell by the foot at J.C. Whitney. Given everything else wrong with the car, I have little doubt that this is the case.

This car is a disaster. We could have a contest to find all of the stuff that's wrong with it.

I contacted the seller to find out more about this car when it first appeared on Ebay several weeks ago. He sent me the tag info. It's a California-built Starfire, body #223, built in the first week of March, 1961.

The car codes for a red interior & white top. Paint code is SL: Autumn Mist lower body with Garnet Mist wheelcovers.

An Autumn Mist '61 Starfire is my holy grail of Starfires. I've never seen one, nor have I heard of one floating around anywhere. Unfortunately, this car is painted the wrong color, it has the wrong interior, AND it has the wrong engine. That's not mentioning all of the other stuff that's either incorrect or missing. It's a damned shame.

The icing on the cake is that the seller thinks he has a showcar on his hands and wants almost $70K for it! Mine must be worth at least twice that...

I'd leap at the opportunity to get my hands on a genuine Autumn Mist '61 Starfire to match my '61 Ninety Eight convertible, but this guy is so out of line it's not even funny. I hope no one out there is dumb enough to overpay for something like this, but I suppose there's an ass for every seat. How could some of these classic car dealers stay in business if folks weren't gullible?

Chuck

[dlh61olds]

You are 100% correct. The dealer told me they added the trim

during the "restoration".

Dave Holt

[rocketraider]

Kinda like they took off the tailpanel and added the 72 Ford midsize turbine wheelcovers? Looks like Mercury version...

[Starfire61]

Wow- good eye on those wheelcovers, Glenn! I couldn't figure out what they were from:

http://www.hub-caps.com/Ford/BU10684.html

I'm amazed the car still has 14" wheels.

Gee, it's looking better every day....

Chuck

[OldsDoug]

Hey, did this thread really start a year ago? How did I miss it?

Anyway, it's a good one!

Doug

[Guest richopp]

Hi all--This is an old forum, but since I love the '61 SF, I have been reading it and looking around. Here is what I found the other day--SURPRISE--ITS BACK! This time "all new" with a much lower price...

http://www.dreamcarclassicsonline.com/cgi/displaydetails.pl?stockno=0211-1222&allphotos=L03

$39,900

STOCK NUMBER: 0211-1222

Question: Have they actually DONE anything to it from the days when it was 70 large?? I have read all the notes above on the "issues" with these--frame, engine, trim, etc., etc., so am staying away even though I would love to own one. I take the wise advice given here: Find one that is all done and judged as pretty accurate and pay whatever it is so you can enjoy it. Anyway, thanks for all the advice and I am jealous of all of the members who own one. We had a '61 vert, but it was the seafoam green and I have always loved these cars.

[Starfire61]

The car has miraculously regained the aluminum panel that runs between the tailights. Unfortunately, it's still missing the companion panel that attaches to the lower lip of the trunk lid.

All '61 Starfires & Ninety Eights have these two panels. Once installed, the rear end of the car from the top of the bumper to the stainless molding at the edge of the trunk is sheathed in aluminum. Looking closely at the pics of the Florida car, the body color seen below the trunk lid molding is a dead giveaway that the upper panel is absent.

Furthermore, the "OLDSMOBILE" letters on the trunk lid are missing, as is the "STARFIRE" emblem.

Notice the gap between the rear bumper & the rear of the car- it's much closer to the car at the center, suggesting that the bumper is bent.

This rather ill-fitting rear bumper also appears to have come from another car. Observe how the finish on the rear valance (encompassing the backup lights & license plate) doesn't seem as shiny as the rest of the bumper. Other than the Starfire, this area was painted body color on all 61 Oldsmobiles. On the Starfire, this panel was chromed to match the rest of the bumper.

It almost looks like somebody took an 88 bumper & spray painted it silver.

The exhaust tips are wrong, too- if I don't mention them I might hear from Oldsfan!

Well, that covers all the problems I see in the last 12-inches or so of the car. Don't get me started on the rest...

I've attached a pic of the rear of this car, as well as another Starfire & a Ninety Eight in order to compare the rear treatments. Interestingly, the Ninety Eight in the photo is the correct color for the Ebay Starfire, Autumn Mist.

As for the price reduction, perhaps faced with no serious takers the guy had a glimmer of rational thought & realized that the car was obscenely overpriced. Now it's just laughably overpriced....

Caveat Emptor!

Chuck

[Guest richopp]

Hi, Chuck--

Thanks so much for posting. There are actually two others of these out there right now:

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/oldsmobile/starfire/745395.html

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/oldsmobile/starfire/700377.html

Both seem to be at Barton's, which says the first one is:

"Original rust free and complete."

It is listed for $9000 less than the other one! At least the rears on these two SEEM to be right, but you would have to be the judge of that.

As for the light blue one that was on this site some time back, I viewed it online at a Marshall's Classics in Knoxville in 8/2007. They must have sold it, as it is no longer on their site. The A/C was the attraction there, as I live in South Florida and it is a necessity here. I knew the top and boot were not original, but had no idea on the rest of the items pointed out about that car here. I actually called SMS and found out an interior for a '61, with the boot, exceed $10K, so that was not good news, either, considering that the metal floor area was also missing and not replaceable, and the trunk area would have to be custom made, also, as no one seems to have the patttens for the '61's.

Do you go to the Old's shows to see the largest number at one time? I am really a Buick guy, and am always surprised at the number of great and rare cars at Bowling Green every year, so that is why I ask.

Anyway, thanks again for posting.

Regards,

Richard

[Starfire61]

Richard, that's the same car. It's wearing the same rear license plate in both ads.

There was a red '61 like this at the Mecum auction in Florida last year. A friend of mine saw the car in person & said it was decent, but a bit tired. A dealer in the south was advertising it for awhile- I wonder if this is the same one.

I distinctly recall the Glacier Blue '61 that was in TN awhile back. I traded a few emails with the seller & pointed out that the car had the wrong engine. For some reason I never heard back from him... Last year that very same car wound up in the hands of a dealer in California who listed the car several times on Ebay.

When asked, the second dealer claimed to have no idea that the engine was wrong, so who knows if he got shafted by the first dealer or was just feigning ignorance. I don't recall that he had any luck selling it either.

The pic of the Starfire & Ninety Eight was taken at the Olds Nationals in Dearborn, MI this past summer. I had never brought any of my cars to a national meet before- it was nice to be at a show & not have to explain which company built my car. I enjoyed seeing some beautiful cars & meeting some really great people!

Chuck

[rocketraider]

Meh, rat's ass. Today is Florence's 75th birthday, and I have not yet sent our group's well-wishes. Mebbe I can get them in before midnight...

[Guest richopp]

Hi, Chuck--You're right, they are identical. Funny! There was one in Ft; Lauderdale a number of years ago the same color. It might have been the same car; I never had time to look at it and I believe the asking price was $25K in those days. Belonged to a Dr., I think. Anyway, thanks again for your analysis and the information.

Sounds like you had fun at the Olds show. I figured that if I ever get the funds to buy one I would go to a big national show and see what was there and get the best one I could afford.

The Buick shows in Bowling Green each year are also great. I have seen a couple of thousand people and over 1000 old cars there. They range from the '84-'87 GN and GNX cars to the '64-'72 GS and GSX cars. I had a very rare one I bought new in '72, but had to sell it due to divorce in 2004. It was a pretty neat car, too, so one day I will try to get another one. You can actually drive those cars every day, like a 442. The Starfire is just dream car for me that would be for shows and a weekend spin or two.

I can't find the link, but there was a bunch of pics of a black one being restored up in Jersey, I think. They did the frame, body, engine and tranny and had all the pics on the site. I found it one day and have lost it now. They even had a close-up of some sort of white plastic A/C switch they had to replace, as well as a new door skin that they put on. I wonder where they got that from?? Anyway, he never did finish the pics, so I don't know whatever happened to the car.

Last question: is there a registry of the '61s anywhere? On the Buick site we have a registry of the rare cars with VINs, equipment, etc., and GM (Sloan Museum) sends out copies of the build information for about $40.00. Is there anything like that for the '61s? Just wondering...

Regards,

Richard

[dlh61olds]

There is a Starfire Club

Try this link terryolds@aol.com

Dave

[Guest richopp]

Hi, Dave--

I'm back again! I found this while searching. What do you think the story is here? Is this one everyone knows about already? Based on all we have discussed, something seems odd here.

Thanks!

Richard

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1961-OLDSMOBILE-STARFIRE-CONVERTIBLE_W0QQitemZ370191445315QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item370191445315&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A-1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[dlh61olds]

It is a Starfire(616) built in Atlanta Ga.(A) number 101 off the ass'y line (1101).

There are a few things that would need attention .

1. There is some rust showing in places that look like they are painted over.

2. The backup lights are missing.

3. The console glove box lock is missing.

4. The front speaker grill shows rust and/or paint missing. The car has probably been rained on with the top down.

5. The oil filler cap is not original.

If I were thinking of buying this I would make a personal inspection before making a commitment. I would also have someone from a local Olds Club take a look at it first.

Dave

[dlh61olds]

This really looks like a"quickie" to me.

After closer examination of the photos I find -

The interior seats should be leather not vinyl.

The speedometer has turned over at least once.

The speedometer has had water in it, look at the paint peeling.

The potmetal trim pieces are missing inboard of the front

turn signals.

The glovebox is a different color than the rest of the dash.

Hood hinges should be black.

Data plate has been painted over and rust under the paint is showing thru.

Trunk lite has been painted over.

The slide on the shift lever is broken.

Engine looks filthy.

Driver side armrest is missing

Dent in lower passenger side door

At least one letter is missing on the trunk lid (M).

I would definetly want to see this in person before I put a bid on it.There is no limit to the money it would take to make it a showcar.

Good luck whatever you do.

Dave

[Guest richopp]

Hi, Dave,

Wow, Excellent advice as usual! I could do the same for you if you ever decide to look at Buick GS cars--we are pretty good at spotting these things there.

Anyway, I doubt it will go for anywhere near the price it is sitting at. He seems like an honest dealer based on his feedback, but he turned down $7500 for 2003 Le Sabre with over 100K miles on it, so he has his own ideas of value.

I did notice the rust places you mentioned, and figured the trim pieces were pot metal and expensive to fix before re-chroming. Is this correct (pot metal?) As for the smaller items--that is part of the fun. Searching out things like glovebox locks and oil filler caps is part of the fun of the hobby for me. I have been known to seek Buick parts for 15 years before finding one I was happy with. I was wondering about the seat upholstery. It looks too good to be original, which I thought was always two-color originally, and the backs seem too good not to have been painted, thus covering up your contention regarding rain. That leads me to believe that the floors are weak, also and I notice that there are no undercarriage pics.

I am going to get up with him and ask for more pics. Also, I would certainly ask for a local Olds club member to check it out, of course, even if the price stays low. Once again, however, it is a non-A/C car, and that is a real issue for me. If the selling price stays below 10K, however, it may be worth thinking about if the inspection comes out OK.

Hard to tell from the pics, but a bunch of the trim looks like it needs attention--dents, etc. I can do some of the polishing, but I leave dent removal to a friend. Anyway, much thanks for you continued help. I really do appreciate your educated eyes for these things.

Cheers!

Richard

[Guest richopp]

Dave,

I spoke to the guy today and he wants over $40K for the car and says he as seen ones worse go for that amount. Hey, it's his car and as I always say, you can ask whatever you want for what you own; doesn't mean you are going to get it, however. He did refuse to take any more pictures, said the frame had a lot of surface rust on it, and the tranny was not all that great as we have discussed previously.

He said it needed a partial restoration, but if the frame has surface rust, it is in need of a frame-off, and I have done them myself on my own rotisserie and know what that means for a Buick, so would not even attempt one on something like this.

Anyway, I will keep looking, and once again appreciate your time and your help.

Cheers!

Richard

[Hurst_Olds_1968]

Hey guys,

I picked up this 62 Starfire convertible this past Oct in California, please feel free to give me your honest assessments! The floors and frame are rust free and original.

here is a link to see more pics http://rides.webshots.com/album/567026927nBcEqs

Thank you

[Talarico8447]

Nice car! Glad to see you have the Guide-Matic option. Is that the original color? What does the body tag say?