Steve_Mack_CT

Member in the 80s for a few years, lapsed when costs of raising a young family sidelined me from the hobby - rejoined I believe in 2002, Might do lifetime this year as we have a 30th wedding anniversary coming up - and she keeps asking what I might want for a gift and who wears watches anymore...

Oh my - agree. I had a car with a set of Firestone WWW that were around 20 years old that looked ok on the outside, but were really cracked badly on the inner sidewalls. Shame, they still had the nipples on them - I doubt they had 200 miles on them but of course we replaced them. Had another car with Firestones coincidentally, in the early 2000s that dated to 1973 -74, but looked like new and were very pliable, never did replace them.

Yep, I love it and did think on it a bit, but as I told Guy,something would have to go. I am certain I would take a bath on the T Speedster project, which I would like to see through, I understand it has been very well maintained, seems like a real bargain to me.

Ed, in '78 I proudly acquired my first car, a $400 1941 Plymouth two door sedan. What provenance on that one - it had actually served as a dog house after accumulating 200K miles, but was all one color, prewar and a two door on top of it!! At 14, I was thrilled. We did a lot of small jobs on the car and topped it off with a set of 600X16 Sears whitewalls out of the catalog. I honestly cannot recall if they said "Allstate" but as late as '78 - '79 these kinds of tires were available from Sears.

This has been covered elsewhere I think, but there is some psychological term that speaks to one's jealousy that may make certain people behave in such a manner, while not consciously committing vandalism, it is kind of the same thing... OK John, we really took your values thread off line. so I will make one more comment that might drive it back. I can kind of see where timing might have been a bit off for B-J this past weekend with market swing getting a lot of pre weekend press, but not sure I would chalk the results up to that. I cannot speak for anyone else but I keep investments separate from fun money, and look long term. I would imagine many, not all granted, might do the same. I suppose if one is closer to retirement and hasn't rebalanced accordingly to trade returns for stability, or they are ultra conservative, they might react in such a way, but I really think the bottom line is the market adjusts and shifts constantly. I could rattle off a dozen cars I am shocked sell as cheaply as they do and a dozen that I am shocked sell for the big dollars that they do, I am sure each of us could and there would be a lot of variation on our lists. The real question is what drives one, value trends or collecting what interests one. The market is merely a reflection of those lists coming together and enough commonalities to drive prices up or down on a given car. And once in a while, an anomaly happens. I do not know enough about the vehicle/type/era that you are mainly interested in but the question I would think is whether it represents a trend or an anomaly. One car may not be enough data?

First congrats on the purchase and hope you enjoy the work as well as the finished product. Involving your wife is a good idea, you mention this is the first early car, but it seems like your comfortable taking on a project of this size. My two cents are any color combo from the original palette as suggested is the way to go. Most interior choices for a closed sedan like yours from the day are simple tans, browns and grey. Let her see the colors, and understand the reasoning behind, I think they had a couple of nice blues she might like and would be complimentary on that car. I love cars of that era that are not black, but in good period colors. Too creative on an otherwise stock vehicle gives you something that is neither fish nor fowl, in other words it is not an authentic restoration but not a hot rod either. You just narrowed your market significantly on both ends if you expect to sell at some point. Are these things an investment in the true sense of the word, well not 95% of them anyway. But we can make choices to maximize our returns which not every hobby offers. Keep us posted on your progress!

In re-reading your reply I see what I missed that was confusing me helfen, your point of course, the 4 restorations warrant more care, selective use and are likely not going to the local Walmart parking lot. I was distracted by the accounting of the fisticuffs. It is funny seeing some of the MB SL guys get into it over the "drive it or your a fool" philosophy. One extreme is a guy who has 3 - 4 MB SL series cars dating from 1989 to present, all with maybe 300 miles or less. He wanted a collection of very low mile, original cars and points out his hobby is keeping them in mint, operational condition. On the other extreme is the camp that says if you are not working towards your 500,000 mile badge, you are not an SL enthusiast. Same group will lambaste anyone who suggests it might be acceptable to actually let someone else deal with some of the dirty work on repairs and maintenance. Then there are the rest who simply enjoy there cars one way or another, and watch the occasional insults flying. Silly I guess...

Padgett, agree with your observation as it relates to hot rods and resto-mods, but I kind of think that is a different part of the hobby. A lot of very well engineered new cars could compete well for someone's dollar looking for a weekend toy vs. a "real" antique or collectible. A collector on the other hand is probably not cross shopping between a prewar car, 50s-60s sportscar, or a specific, stock musclecar against a 500 HP Corvette or what have you. I could see the resto mod guys doing that though. B-J was in my backyard, and a couple friends attended who are into those cars, but I had no interest in burning a half day looking at cars that, if I had taped it, would have fast forwarded through - 90% of what they had, I believe. We watched maybe a half hours worth on TV...

Helfen I am not sure I am following you 100% - I get the work that goes into a full restoration but not sure where you were going with the guy who punched out someone for dinging his door. He is lucky not to have ended up in jail. My philosophy, FWIW is different cars are suited to different uses. An older restoration for example is an ideal car to drive and enjoy, where one might think twice about a #1 that has been brought to perfection for concours use. Also people enjoy these things differently. Anyone here ever meet Malcolm Pray from CT? A major collector, Mr. Pray regularly opened his collection up to inner city youth among other groups. He made it a point to share his thoughts on how to succeed in life (no formal education, grew up poor, but became one of the first/biggest VW/Audi/Porsche importers). He also let the kids get up close and personal with some very valuable cars. We were speaking one day and he said "I really don't drive these too much anymore, I don't need a hassle on the road, and seeing the kids with the cars is a lot more fun for me". Malcolm passed a couple years ago but was a great ambassador for the hobby who simply found another way to enjoy his cars after touring, competitive driving and showing at high end concours. I love that Bernie is already enjoying the smiling Bugeye, just as much as a prewar car doing a 300 mile tour, all good.

Agree driving is only one way to have fun with old cars, and a fixation on value is one way to dampen the fun no matter what your approach is. Be cognizant of it, absolutely. Unfortunately, consignment with no reserve is a chancy thing, too bad it did not work out for the OP's friend. Bernie, I really posted to respond to your junkyard memory, I remember a couple trips to the pick and pull with a friend but the junkyard experience that sticks with me was when dad and I were looking for an antique to mess around with - I might have been 14 or so, We spot a tall and proud '39 Chevy coupe in the middle of a bunch of newer cars, not so much a junkyard as a large repair garage with maybe 30 derelicts on the side in rural CT. We weave through the other cars to get to the Chevy - a nice car. Then hear the sound of a chain sliding along the ground hitting various things, "Thunk" - a HUGE junkyard dog popped up onto the hood of one of those old junks to see who was in his yard. We both made it back to our car in about 3 or 4 steps. A very vivid memory, but I will take the bird chasing me over that dog anytime!

This car was written up in the PAC Cormorant a while back as I recall. Not sure Darrin reacted with enthusiasm when contacted about cars of his past from what I have read about him, not as friendly as Gordon Buehrig was in later years, at least that seems to be the story... AJ I think he was involved with one prewar MB at one time, and when contacted by the collector owner, mumbled something about "not making a dime on that one" and not being interested in seeing it although it was local to his CA retirement home?

OK some thinking to do now Guy...

Congrats on the successful travels, show and nice win with your TC Terry! Thanks for sharing!

A big fan of these and wish I had room for just one more. I have to say after looking at dozens of these in this price range this one is a stand out. GLWS Guy. If your client wanted a T Speedster in process I sure would be tempted...

And so Lucifer himself came up with a special vehicle for Corvette owners who had been particularly bad in their earthly life and were destined to run errands in Hell of all eternity....

On Klingberg the one comment I will make is organizer Mark Johnson (also associated with the school) has put effort into attracting prewar cars and the owners have responded very well. This is a local event, not a prestige deal, but it benefits a school with an automotive program and has become known as one of the handful of shows that really welcomes the older stuff. A lot of well known collectors support it and so do a lot of locals with cool cars. I think prewar owners to some degree want to see other similar cars, so the right venue can get them to show. In CT Belltown (Always first Sunday in August! :) )is taking that approach more and more, and is also another great venue for these cars. Anyway, no matter what I hope everyone enjoyed a great show with their dad/kid/both, a great way to spend the day!

Yep, day before but in CT the Klingberg show is the Father's Day event. Dad and I go every year. A well run show that draws a lot of quality earlier stuff due to the "mini concours" and emphasis on prewar stuff. Two Duesys present (almost had 3!) as well a strong showing of Full Classics, brass and low mile prewar cars. I think Mercer 09 is interested in A town cars, this one I believe is a local car but no placard present to provide the details.

That Model A seemed like a lot of car for the money given the long term ownership and overall condition. Someone did well, I think on it - congrats!

A couple more:

Saw the burgundy 540K up close and personal Saturday at Greenwich. While I am not an expert on these cars I can tell you it was breathtaking in terms of condition; about perfect, and great presentation with BW tires, color and interior. I have some additional pics I will add tonight, not easy considering the constant crowd around it!

Matt, FWIW your not missing any opportunity to improve the appearance IMHO. I think the chrome works well with the current color scheme. That car would look fantastic if body matched top and fenders, you left the reveals as is, and maybe added a matching light blue accent stripe. I usually like darker wheels but you could even leave them as is, Oh well, just spent all of your profit on this one, Beautiful car, BTW. We once traded two cars for a Packard, this one is tempting to repeat that strategy on...

One of my favorites, but not likely new to anyone here. I figure it qualifies since the work was done by Duesenberg workers. Although the original has been lost there have been at least a couple pretty faithful efforts to replicate the Buehrig Model A.

Any old car is likely to put the driver in a precarious position quicker than a new car will; keeping damage relatively light is more realistic, IMO for two reasons - first a major crash would likely injure or kill a driver much more easily in an old car (one can be pinned or trapped for a while in a lesser accident depending on how it occurs or is written) and second, restoration of a car can take years, even with a pro. An 8 week repair after a collision is pretty good, not unheard of, but not bad. Repairing a car with major major damage in 8 weeks could be a stretch. The low slung Lincoln Continental "39 - '48 would be nice to use but for the floor shift need.

Jeffery. you might consider the A coupe "JFranklin" - a long time poster here and I believe on Fordbarn listed for a friend's widow. Long term ownership, well taken care of/restoration work done sounds like quality work, and reasonable price not to mention good colors - you might have a winner there. Wanted to be sure you saw it at least.

The advice to get involved in an AACA region is really good. You seem open to a lot of possibilities, and while most of the cars discussed are big American sedans, like Mercer, I will throw in a different choice here. A sorted 60s/early 70s MB sedan ready to go would easily fit your budget. These cars have been trending up - I think every bit as solid as the US made counterparts from a return perspective. Buying what pleases you is important BUT a good choice of make/model as well as condition will help you recoup your investment should you decide to move up or out of the hobby at some point in the future. For your stated needs and preferences (as nice as the SL cars are, a perfect compromise between luxury and sport) , I might consider a Mercedes sedan from 1960 - 1973 or so, stick with a gas model, 6 or 8 and you will find a very well built, unique option at your buy in figure. MB has one if not the strongest factory support for their "classic" models. These cars regularly show up in great cosmetic condition - they were well built - overbuilt in some cases, and have a strong following. It is common for a buyer to refresh the rubber components (engine mounts, suspension, etc.) and address fuel injection issues (two things to look out for) as well as general sorting typical of any old car - and then drive them extensively. I am amazed at the number of these with original paint that looks like it is two years old. I think they are in fact more rugged mechanically than most cars of the same era regardless of maker. The 280 SE is the one I would go for, definitely the "tall grille" variants from a styling perspective. When I think about "taking the long way home on a Friday afternoon" I suspect it might be a little more fun to drive than some of the other options but just a different opinion for you to consider. Capable of highway speeds, nice handling, leather or MB Tex (some say that is better, and again, not unusual for a 45 year old interior to clean up like new with the tex - it is rugged stuff), genuine wood trim, overbuilt door hinges, etc. for example. Sunroof and AC would be musts for me in your climate. You would have something a little unusual but well supported by both the MB Classic Center and a lot of independent specialists who love working on these cars. To Bernie's point, these cars are a little easier to maintain then the reputation - especially the earlier ones. Cheaper to buy a very good one in the long run, and your budget would seem to allow for that. Good luck with your search!