JB-ed

Did you guys buy a Pertronix coil too? I understand that these electronic ignitions burn out the North East coils after a little usage.

I have four "on the road' and three to restore. Son #1 has an all original coupe (saved from hot rodding) and Son #2 has a sport touring. My four are: sport roadster, deluxe 4-pass coupe, deluxe late sedan, and very early sedan. To restore are two 131 series sedans (21 inch wheels) and one sport sedan, early.

JB-ed welcomes your submission of a manuscript and photos soon as possible in this subject. Just type it out and save to a CD along with the photos. I'd prefer you do not send pix via internet as I have telegraph-era phone line and no DSL or cable service in my location. Downloading takes 1/2 day or longer for photos of any quality.ED.

Those bolts holding the brake drums to the hub are what we call carriage bolts. Problem is, they are high-strength steel, not the carriage bolts you find in hardware stores today. You can not safely use hardware store, carbon-steel, low-strength carriage bolts for holding the brake drums to the hubs. Therefore, if you try to remove the brake drums from the wheels, you will most likely need to "unpeen" the end of the original bolt to remove the nut. If you do not, you are likely to damage the bolt and can not reuse it. Unless you or someone else reading this knows where to find high-strength (Grade 5 or 8) carriage bolts, you will need to reuse the originals and peen them over again when you reassemble the drum to the wheel. You may need to remove the drum to have it turned down if it is worn; better to do the entire assembly, wheel and drum, if you have a lathe with a large enough swing. If you do not need to remove the brake drum, just soak the entire wheel in a solvent or kerosene and clean the corners between spokes and drum with a tooth brush or other. Then paint the whole thing, spokes and drum and felloe in one step. You may need to use wood filler or primer-surfcer on the spokes if they are rough. Do NOT dare to remove the hub or felloe and take apart the wheel spokes. It will be horrendous to try to fit all this together again. If the spokes are very dry, soak the entire wheel (after you strip off the old paint) in linseed oil for a week before painting. If some of the spokes are not usable, seek out an Amish wheelwright who has the tools and ability to replace spokes and do up your wheels for you.

....clicked "submit" too soon.... in summary you want a nice "downhill" trip for the gasoline from the bottom of the vacuum tank to the carburetor. As direct as possible, with no up hill detours.

Sounds more like your vacuum tank is not dumping the load of gas once its float triggers it. Check to see if manifold vacuum is reaching the vacuum tank. Then check to see if the gasket between tank and top casting is not blocking the hole for the atmospheric bleed tube (the little bent copper tube coming out of top) There is one "odd" hole in the gasket and it must be aligned with the bleed tube hole. Also make sure you dont have all sorts of loops in the gas line to the carburetor. I have seen some of those loops so severe that they prevent gravity feed down to the carburetor. They also trap gasoline making a perfect place for so called vapor lock.

I think -- think -- If you have the Hotchkiss (open, not torque-tube) drive, 108 wheelbase true Fast Four, that the Victory and Standard Six rear ends may interchange gears although the ratios may differ. I believe some people have put Victory hyrdaulic brakes on Standard Six, just swapping the backing plates. Since I think -- think-- your axles are similar enough, you can consider doing the same. Since this alteration is easily reversable, it's not 'hot rodding'. However, you will not get any better stopping power since any car's braking is limited to the square feet of rubber on the road (tire size). I strongly suggest you get to one of these potential donor cars and measure like crazy for yourself before investing anything significant in the experiment. I apologize for this vague answer but it seems as if no one else is coming forward with anything more specific for you. Communicate with some of the DB vendors who may have these parts and see if they can match bolt holes, etc. Or come to a DBC meet, even if for a few hours, and measure yourself.

Danged. It seemed like such a simple string of logic. Please follow along this outline of what Bowers says: 1. Club of people who are dedicated to original cars. 2. Lawyer trashes a surviving American antique original car. 3. Lawyer's car no longer fits the criteria of the club. 4. Lawyer calls club narrow minded. (next? 5. Lawyer sues club for discriminating against street rods) Where have I heard this sort of illogic before? Politics? ACLU? Reminds me of the guy who replaced the guts out of the 1890s Grammophone with an iPod (because he was too tired to crank up the spring motor) and then wondered why the Phonograph Society made fun of his show entry. Esq. Bowers may be interested in the retired couple who drove their all-stock 1915 Dodge Brothers touring car from California to our national meet in Massachusetts several years ago. (Their name, by the coincidental way, is "Lawyer") May I ask you-- if you had driven your formerly-1938 Dodge to that same meet with your air conditioning and other modern comforts, what would you have had in common with the retired couple? What exactly would you talk about? In thinking about those questions I submit that you are the narrow minded in this discussion--unable to see how a group of people can hold to a dedication to historic accuracy to the poimt of sacrificing some perceived personal comfort. I submit that the couple in their 1915 had an experience of a lifetime that would surpass any trip you could imagine wrapped in the comforts of your Dodge-like hot rod. In fact, many of us can't imagine why, every time you drive your creation, you aren't pained with the thought that you have forever destroyed a piece of American history for your own selfish comfort and, no doubt, ego. And you are displaying this fact to anyone who cares to look. Obviously you are pained by the thought that there is a club of people, most of whom who do not appreciate what damage you have done. People who would prefer you had picked up some Viagara instead of taking it out on that poor old car. Jack M. Yes there are cases where the cost to restore the remains of some vehicle are prohibitive and rodding could be an alternative. You are not the problem. It is the guys who trash totally restorable, or restored, and sometimes show winning, vehicles. These unfortunately are the vast majority. But your situation notwithstanding, our club is dedicated to originality. We talk about flat head engines and manual transmissions, and researching original color formulas. What possible commonality will you find in our club or website? There are street-rod clubs that will enjoy your work and share some interests with you.

Wait a minute! YOU (Vincent) are complaining about the historically significant photos I picked up on eBay and published for the club members to see??? The Feb/Mar 07 Page 6 dealer's convention badge (when is the last time you saw one of them?) or the car with whitewall tires, rarely seen for that era but vindicating modern restorers who want whitewalls?? What may I ask is the difference in a nice series of photos of historic interest that was sent in by a member or one I picked off the internet? If the photos on Page 14 of Feb/Mar 07 were from eBay rather than having been sent by a member, should I have not published them? I am so sorry that you were screwed in the purchase of your Dodge. I hate this almost as much as hot rodding. Years ago I bought a 1917 winter-top roadster that turned out to be an assemblage of junk parts; it never was a car. However, I did not quit the club in retribution. I recongized that, no matter how well the seller concealed the deed, buyer beware was my responsibility. Certainly not that of the club or the magazine. In fact, I should have used the club roster to contact some members in the area of the seller. Had I done this, I would have known that this car was a fake and the guy was scum. My other references to eBay are to warn members of bad guys on that auction site. Like it or not, eBay has become more significant than Hershey to our hobby. But the dangers from flippers and people apprently like the one who sold you your DA are worse. Any help we can give members I regard as a major service. Maybe people think the club magazine (it's not a newsletter)is produced by a whole staff of editors. I am flattered by that thought. But every two months I sit here alone at my computer with all the submissions that have been sent to me spread out on the table. From these (and a few photos I pick up--yes, some on eBay) (and a few articles I write myself as a result of my own technical advising for the Victory Six, the only DB I feel qualified to address) that's all that goes in the magazine. You could have sent me your questions on your brakes for the Q&A department. You could have asked your DA tech advisor rather than wait for the coincidence of his publishing the article you need. You could have sent me a photo array of the screwups and copper pennies on your car. I'd publish them as a warning about how bad it can get. I did this years ago for a Victory touring car that was a costly restoration due to a previous incompetent "restorer." As for asking an attendee to leave a national meet to help you, this would be asking an enormous favor of a fellow member. Meets are our vacations, for most of us the only time we spend away with our families. We do help many people who bring their cars to the meets (witness all the open hoods and crowds standing around in the photos.) But hey, to say "let's abandon the socializing and fun of the meet and come back to my garage and work on my car" is a huge request. Sorry you find the magazine unhelpful. I am wondering how much regular help you get for your DA in the AACA and VMCCA magazines? I get these magazines and already know that answer--it's a rhetorical question. You are the second member to have quit in a huff recently, due to lack of the articles you prefer in the magazine. Of course, I, the editor, am the last to know about your displeasure. Isn't that kinda the bass-ackwards way to address this problem? You do say there were a "host" of other reasons, so I suppose your loss of interest is caused by many other things. And to wbower3 who wants to show up with his street rod at an event sponsored by a club whose purpose is to retain originality: what exactly do you expect? We find great personal value in the original car and are willing to spend much time and money to achieve this. Your interests are entirely 180 degrees opposite, spending much time and money to destroy the originality we so admire. The word "insulting" comes to mind. Like bringing a goat to a dog show. John--Editor.

You guys reminded me of the pleasure I had two years ago passing a line of street rods on the freeway in my all-original Victory Six coupe. All that money they wasted for nothing!

"Original" is a problem because it has so many meanings. "Original" is often used as "factory original," as the car emerged from the factory with chalk marks and so forth. In this case, "restored to original" means factory original. I think this is the traditional usage. "Original" sometimes is used for the "original life" of the vehicle, when it was first purchased, put on the road, and driven among cars of its vintage. During this period oil-change stickers, parking decals, gas ration stickers, spot lights, seat covers may have been added. Paint gets worn down and scratched, fenders get dented. Most of us think of these cars as being in their second life-- as "all-original antiques." Vehicles in this condition are desired these days by some people. Obviously you can't "restore" to this condition. "Original" lately is coming to mean "not extensively modified." Thanks to those in the street-rod gene pool, we now need to make this distinction. In this case, an "original car" could mean that it is not so horribly trashed that it can never be restored economically. "original" is used as the opposite of "rod." The only way these could come together is for a rod built in the 1950s that is "restored" to its 1950s condition today. Back to "factory original." What about dealer-attached identification plates tacked to floorboards? Or dealer embroidered tire covers? If the factory shipped the cars with the bumpers wrapped in paper in the back seat for the dealer to assemble, do factory-original restorations come this way? I'd love to see the AACA judges deal with this. In the historic house/building world they have three words that are clearly distinguishable: restore, rehabilitate, and rennovate. Perhaps we need to make these distinctions too, and somehow convery them to the to the hot-rod types.

By "original" I think they are trying to say "first time around the odometer." Early cars only registered 99,999 miles and then started over. So an odometer showing 12,000 is "original" if it is believed that the car traveled actually 12,000 and not 112,000. We need another word for this.

Don't forget to put ads in the club magazine if you are members. Still loads of guys who don't check this discussion site often. I'm sure these parts can be found. Guys are stilling finding 1915 parts, so 1930 should be a piece of cake???? (insert happy face here)

"Carbking" Jon says it all. You can still find the Stewart Detroit Lubricator at swap meets, sometimes quite cheap. Memorize how it looks from the owners manual or photos of another car and look for it. There are some aftermarket carbs that make the engine run but, in my opinion, not great: Carter BB-1 and a Zenith come to mind. Carters tend to go rich and flood easily no matter how you set them. You can buy a complete UX-2 carb, all-aluminum repro., ready to use, from Australia for $1500 plus your core. See the club magazine for details or contact the editor.

With all the new interest in orginal cars, and the seemingly huge number of these coming out of barns lately, I am surpirsed none of the magazines has presented any info on how to clean and preserve these vehicles. I have a 1928 car, parked since 1952, mohair upholstery. No one has anything except speculation on how to treat this upholstery. Likewise no help on paint, spots of rust, rubber, etc.

Model A suppliers have a 50 cp bulb that gives great beam. All Victory bulbs needed also available through McMaster Carr and other industrial suppliers.

There is a third issue-- that of liability. This drove the licensing moves on pre-war cars a decade ago, I understand. The problem is some bozo manufacturing a cheapo critical part like tie rod end or ball joint using the Ford name. The part fails, kills people, and some lawyer, looking for deepest pockets, goes after Ford who "obviously and neglectfully allowed said bozo to make these inferior parts using their copyrighted name" .... case closed. Never forget, the lawyer gets at least 1/3 of the jury award.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll find "Little Kids" are far more welcomed at a Hot Rod meet than an AACA event.</div></div> I'd love to know where these meets are. Elsewhere in the universe pre-war rodders (now known at street rodders by SEMA) throw beer cans at kids for fun. Despite comment several posts above, we in Ohio are seeing the street-rod prices coming down to prices for equivalent-quality restorations. Post-middle-aged street rodders (50 and older) are finding that few others want their creations, or--more importantly-- trust their safety.

I make answer: indicativity of the Victory is 87759, November 1927 to end of 1928 indicativity of Fast Four is 88909, July 1927 through July 1928 All Fast Fours are considered 1928 models

The Budd monopiece body was introduced on the 1928 Victory Six, used on the closed cars. It was continued on the 1929 DA, amd 1930 DD (and probably the DC-8 although I do not know this for sure--it seems likely), and eventually became the body engineering favorite of all Chrysler cars.

Engine numbers are about 15,000 or so higher than the serial number. Your car probably was built in the late summer, or fall, of 1928, However, there have been some exceptions for exports so you really need to find the serial number. It usually is under the right fender, near the rear shackle bolt of the front spring. It will be stamped (die cut) in 1/2 inch high numbers. You will need a wire brush and maybe steel wool to bring the number out. It will be filled with grease and paint.

Interesting idea, Dodge Brothers region of AACA. I will propose this to the Board via e-mail as soon as I sign off from here. Does that mean that the former DBC "regions" will then become "sub-regions" of the DB region of AACA?

Be careful because these manuals were changed every time the factory made a design change. Ideally you want a manual dated closely before the production date of your car. Ask Romar for the date of their repro. I think it is 1926. Watch eBay. These are always turning up.

Getting back on subject, I agree that most old-car swap meets now are a horrific waste of time with junk tools and not-auto-related stuff. And, sorry to say, Hershey is on that slippery slope now. 25 years ago I saw AACA officials forcing vendors to pack up non-auto merchandise. (Of course 10 years I saw them forcing hot rods off the fields, but no more.) As it is now, I bet 30% of Hershey spaces are wasted on non-auto merchandise or no merchandise at all! We need to forbid 1. parking/camping only; 2. non-auto of any type, either as part of a space display or the entire space display. 3. No-shows. At the very least, these people get moved next year to the bottom of the space-assignment list, and the true vendors in the mug holes ("donikered" in carnie talk) are moved up to the better spots. The useful portion of "Hershey" swap space is probably far smaller than it appears from an aerial photo. The darned problem is that attendees encourage all this waste by actually buying this stuff. As someone wrote above, Maple Syrup. Why these guys waste valuable time, having driven great distances, shopping for junk tools and sunglasses, when they can buy them at home or from catalogues, is beyond me. No priorities I suppose. An occassional argument is that we "need the diversity" and we need to please everybody. To that I ask, what would a craft-show promoter say if someone came in with a load of rusty car parts and dumped them on a tarp at their show?

Someone on Board of Directors is supposed to be looking into alternative insurance companies for the club's insurance. Hoping that some other company will be more lenient on requirements for regions. Haggerty is highly supporting our upcoming meet with $$underwriting and other donations. Maybe they will be the ones. Once we settle this, we rewrite the bylaws "requirements for regions" and we are back on track. Right now, we still will assist local groups to form for the purpose of "getting together." I as editor will provide mailing lists of local members to any member interested in forming a local group. Once insurance and bylaws are settled, these "local groups" will instructed as to what is needed to become regions. Note that in the recent issues of the magazine the previous regions are identified by anything but "regions." But still supported. Be assured that this is just a temporary glitch that will be corrected. This b.s. does take time, however. The problem is, and always has been, insurance. And lack of insurance protection from law suits against the national club <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. John Bittence, editor.