wayne sheldon

The 1931 only Model A Victoria years ago was one of the most popular of all the model A body styles! Much more common than the 400-A, but still "rare" by model A standards. For a long time they commanded fairly high prices. Several of the odd coupes and sedans* of 1928/'29 are actually more rare, but they were never as popular as the '31 Victoria! I am not sure this one is sharp enough to bring that price today? But it would not surprise me at all if it did. * 1928/'29 business coupe, special coupe, and about five differing blind-back sedans.

Where are you located? That can make a huge difference in your reasonable options. Best if you can sell it! Someone that pays something for it must care enough to take care of it. However, my belief is that the main thing is to keep it away from the garbage can or recycling at least awhile longer. To that end, giving it to someone with antique cars of that general era would be good. It might be wise to write on it with a felt pen "1929 Whippet?" for future identification's sake. My dad had tons of junk I had no interest in. We gave away about half of it. Even a lot of stuff worth a bit of money was given away because we didn't have the time or space to hang onto it to fool around selling them.

In fairness, and for whatever it is worth? That assembly line photo does appear to be a set up. I don't know the story behind it, and don't have notes on where I gathered it. The numbers down in the corner indicate it was an official factory photo of some sort (perhaps the Benson Ford archive could identify it?). I suspect that this is the official ten millionth model T Ford (a touring car) being assembled. My reason for believing this, is that the engine is not the standard production colors which was a blackish wash (not really painted) originally. Also, things like the intake manifold and generator were painted black. Original era photos of the ten millionth car show it with white tires. Was that done special for the ten millionth car? Maybe. But that is why I also showed the 1924 coupe, a typical production car of the same year. Regardless, numerous other photos of 1923 and 1924 model Ts show them with white tires. So, special assembly set up or not? White tires were still on new cars. At least on Fords.

Several years ago, there was a good discussion on this subject on the MTFCA forum. I had it bookmarked on my computer, but about a year later a partial meltdown of my computer erased over a thousand such book marks and I haven't found that old discussion since. I spent many (hundred or more?) hours searching for a lot of lost items that I wanted to be able to reference. Found a lot of them, but not that one. White tires, on model T Fords at least, went later than one might think, at least 1923 on some model Ts. Part of the discussion (totally from my memory!) was how official Ford factory photos of cars always had black tires on them. Ford of course wanted "official" photos of the cars to show them in their "best light", all up-to-date and smart looking. However, production line photos were a bit more random rather than set up. So, as it happens, some production line photos of the 1920s show cars being assembled with white tires. The new style four door sedan was introduced in very late 1922. So this car for all practical purposes is a 1923 car. The 1924 style coupe also appears to have white tires. And one assembly line photo I did find, a 1924 model chassis. So I would say white tires were still in use a bit later than 1919.

I wish I had the money, and it was close by. I think I would take that chance. One good thing about Buicks those years, engines can still be had in case of worst case. But it won't happen for me. So all I can do now is dream.

That really is the best comparison. Regular pickups had cheaper interiors with uncomfortable seats. Even the El Camino was more a car than a pickup. They couldn't handle as much weight or bulk as a regular pickup of their time. After my grandfather retired in 1964, he sold the old GMC half ton and bought a new El Camino. It was great for the lighter work he did in retirement. I would love to have one, by any of the makers.

Yeah, those wheels and bumperless front are real turn-offs. But it looks like it might be easily correctable.

Maybe some people are waking up to the market realities? I think this is the third or fourth late 1930s/early'40s actually restorable Packard well under 10K in two weeks? Now if my realities would just change?

My mother knew that Arbuckle, and attended many of his lectures many years ago! My mother also said he rarely spoke of Fattty Arbuckle. It was a "style" thing. Quite a few sporting roadsters and touring cars, even sedans and coupes, had step plates hanging out from the chassis rather than running boards. Kissels, Jewetts, Chandlers, among several others built many production sporting cars with shortened front fenders and no running boards. A very good friend has a 1915 Biddle sport touring, originally with no doors, and double level step plate front and rear seats for entry. One of the hottest looking brass era cars ever! Almost forty years ago, I considered buying a 1926ish Kissel convertible coupe/cabriolet with short front fenders and very short running boards (basically step plates?). Marmon also built a number of cars that way. I know a couple people that own them. A very good friend has a Chandler sport touring with the step plates, no running boards. Great looking car in a fabulous collection. The partial "fender" ahead of the rear step plate is unusual. It is to prevent muddy splashes from the front tire circling around the step plats and muddying up the rear step plate/

Grrrr.

Cutlass Guy, I would like to thank you for taking the time to post all these pictures of a showing I could not attend. I like to see people out and about enjoying their precious automobiles. Although, only one car there is something I would personally want, there are a lot of other interesting cars to be seen. I really like that 1927ish Chrysler sedan! I am not an expert on Chryslers of any era, and cannot tell for certain what model that one is. I suspect it is the smaller six, something in the model 60 series perhaps? They do not have to be my "thing" for me to like seeing nice cars of the 1940s, 1950s, through the muscle car era.

I do not need it. I already have a couple nice ones myself. To others, other than needing a new belt, this is a nice looking one. Most similar running board luggage belt clamps are pressed steel. This one appears to be cast iron, a bit more unusual, and a bit nicer looking. A good harness shop should be able to provide a quality replacement belt set for it. Model T people often put a picnic basket in them for car shows.

After-market luggage holder. The metal bracket clamps onto the running board, and the leather belt straps around the suitcase or whatever to hold it in place. Looks like a nice one in need of a new belt.

Not surprised. Looks like it was a nice buy.

Grimy mentioned this; For whatever it is worth? A few years ago, I saw pictures of this particular PA somewhere. The accompanying article said that the car was all "original". I had no reason to doubt that, in spite of the fact I had been told by a good friend that has a 66 that over half the currently existing model 66 PAs have recreated bodies due to the big powerful cars being turned into trucks of one sort or another in the car's later years. If in fact this car was rebodied and the "patina" is fake? Then I am disappointed. Regardless, any decent model 66 Pierce Arrow is an incredible car! If it is not a true original, then full speed ahead, get that thing out on the road and drive it like ED M stole it!

A very interesting man. Surrounded by quite a few well deserved scandals, he was married a couple times, and was known to have had several other affairs. About forty-five years ago, I met one of his ex-wives at a film screening of a couple of his movies. Miss Minta Durfee Arbuckle had nothing but kind words for him, and had devoted much of her life promoting his films and trying to keep his memory alive! She gave quite a talk about him, and his life. There is a very famous photo of him sitting on the forward step plate on the left side of the car, he looking more than a bit distressed. One of the young actresses he had had an affair with, after a big "party" in San Francisco (if I recall correctly?), she had died - - - , well, she died. Police investigated the "circumstances" and after changing their minds back and forth a few time due to public and press pressure, were about to arrest Mr. Arbuckle. The mistrials and trials took about two years before Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle was eventually found not guilty. He was practically black-balled by the film industry through the 1920s, however managed to work behind the scenes under pseudonyms for some time before the public and film industry was finally willing to forgive him and allowed him to continue working openly. He was just beginning to get back on track, and adapting to the new "talkies" when he died young. In the mid to late 1910s, Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle was literally and figuratively one the the biggest things in the film industry!

I don't recall seeing that particular photo before. Although I have seen a lot of others. Even before I scrolled down to read the caption, I knew that was Henry Ford II. There is a famous photo of him seated in the 999/Arrow racing car holding onto the steering tillers, taken around 1950ish. I think Will Rogers said it best. About Henry Ford, "it'll take a hundred years to know whether you've helped us or hurt us. But you sure didn't leave us where you found us."

Rod P, Thank you for posting that link. Although I didn't read the political history dissertation portion of it, the general overview is basically what I thought (and think) I knew about it. When we were involved in the area with the cable television system in the 1960s, the cheaply built housing was nearly thirty years of age. Long before then, the place had become the "California Conservation Corps". The state had taken over the facility after the federal abandoned it during the war. However, all the regular local residents knew of it having been a federal program years before. Being a conservative back-hills area, a lot of the locals had not been fans of FDR. Their occasional mentions of the local facility were often colorfully enhanced (probably sped up the closure of the facility?). Due to the mountains, local antenna/off-air television reception was generally not possible. The local population was spread out over miles of low population density roads. The CCC facility had a lot of small homes and shacks in a small area, inhabited by mostly city kids and sometimes their wives (state didn't continue the unmarried thing). They wanted their tv. The cable television system was therefore supported by the temporary residents of the CCC encampment, with a tremendous customer turnover by everchanging short term residents. When the state decided to end the encampment, most of the old housing was abandoned or bulldozed. The cable television system was also abandoned as the few remaining local customers couldn't cover the maintenance costs to continue running the system. My dad was a cable television pioneer. Educated as an electronics engineer, with a background in radio and early television, he was working on the designs for television distribution systems in the mid 1950s. He never made much money from that early cable television system. But for the rest of his life he liked to brag about it and say that he learned a lot from working on the system. Someone else had actually built the system originally. But they couldn't make it work. They didn't want to pay him to fix it, so they sold it to him cheap. I spent a couple weeks that summer working with him getting the system fixed up enough to work, and many trips for a few years doing the routine maintenance.

I dreamed of a Kissel Gold Bug. I was a strange kid.

I am not sure, but I think the U.S.C.C.C. license plate means United States Civilian Conservation Corps. In a small out of the way town in Northern California when I was in high school, my dad owned the early cable television system. Half the homes in the town were in the old CCC training facility. Which I heard had began as a federal facility. When they budget cut the CCC, and shut the place down half the town dried up and blew away. Anybody want to google it and find out if I am right?

Yeah Kerry, for that price it should need some work, but be together and running and drivable. About a year ago there was a really nice one that took awhile to sell for $12,000.

This one has been for sale for a couple years I think at least on the Franklin Club website. If I recall correctly, the price has dropped a bit, and maybe it can find a new home now? I wish I had the money, the time, and the place to keep it. Then again there would be the distance?

It is possible that it might be a reproduction made in the 1960s or 1970s. Such stone guards were available for most cars of the late 1920s and early 1930s, before stylists began seriously putting a real "grill" in front of the radiator. Many makes of automobiles from Ford to Packard offered them as a "factory" accessory (although they were often actually installed by the selling dealer!). And several companies made and sold them as after-market accessories to fit almost any car. While they were commonly available, they weren't all that popular. Anyone studying era photographs should notice that random photos rarely show stone guards on cars. Factory and advertising photos often show them, and they can often be seen in dealer showroom photos. On the street? Not so often. Hobbyists over a half century ago decided they liked the things. Originals were rare to find in good condition, and somewhat difficult to restore. Also, as Gunsmoke mentioned, many automakers made minor changes from year to year or model to model, so often finding one that fit one's car was often very difficult! So quite a number of hobbyists made a good side business of making new ones. As it happens, way back when I was in high school, a neighbor had a small shop in his garage, with all the patterns and jigs to make ones for model A Fords! He wasn't the only one, and being a "model A guy" he only made them for the four years of model A Fords. His were well made, and very well known. He sold them literally all over the world, mostly through model A parts house dealers. However, other people did make them for other cars. One fellow (I did not know personally) was famous for the ones he made for Packard automobiles. A few people specialized in making ones for any car other than model As or Packards. I guess they liked the challenge of custom fitting each one special. You may or might not be able to tell on the back side whether yours is an original era or later reproduction? Regardless, someone should love to have that for their 1930ish Chevrolet, even if they have to alter the fit slightly.

Those 50 series Chryslers show up in the "Not Mine" for sale section quite often. Another one (slightly butchered coupe) showed up earlier this week. I generally avoid commenting on them when I see them for sale. I am often torn between wanting to inform people, and not wanting to sabotage someone's effort to sell something they may need to sell. They are wonderful cars in many ways! Decent size car, great nickel era styling. I have known a fair number of people that have owned and driven them. Not too small compared to some other cars of the era. However, they are woefully underpowered with the Maxwell carryover engine. Fun to drive provided you live in an area where you never need to push it up to over 55 kph (roughly 40 mph). The magic number I have heard from a few owners was 38 mph was the most it was ever going to do. People loved the cars, but couldn't deal with the low top speed. It goes against my grain? But I wonder if a later early Plymouth engine in one could make enough better speed for driving? I know the last two years of Plymouth fours (around 1931) were much better engines, and somewhat similar looking. That Maxwell engine by 1928 was almost ten years out of date, and intended for a smaller and lighter car. Yours is a really nice looking automobile!

Wonderful! I like seeing posts updating progress made getting another one on the road to be enjoyed.