58L-Y8

More than the prices, I'd enjoy seeing more details on those two '31 Packards. I'll go out on a limb, opine the custom body is an All-Weather Quarter Window Cabriolet by Rollston. There should be job/style numbers stamped on each piece of the wood frame. The body may not have originally come on that chassis. Walt G. could make positive identification. Certainly hope the buyer is able to gather up all the parts of that car. Good luck to him, that will be an ambitious restoration but very worthwhile.

Almost certain to next appear on the radiator of some '20's exotic custom coachbuilt French marque at the next Pebble Beach....

The vertical V-windshield was a Rollston town car detail that began in the late 1920's period, would be correct for this 845. Recall that as the Depression took hold, custom coachbuilders found themselves with stocks of unsold bodies in the white, especially formal styles, as the wealthly began to shy away from conspicuous displays of wealth.

The sleeve-valve straight eight Stearns-Knight was their own manufacture. The Willys 8-80 engine was a Continental Model 14W 245,4 ci. L-head, poppet-valve straight eight powering the Willys 1931-'32 8-80, 8-80D, & 1932-'33 8-88, 8-88A. One appeared on the Hershey show field during that rain-off year, iirc 2005. The short-lived '29 Stearns-Knight M-6-80 & N-6-80 were simply W-K 66A wearing a S-K radiator and trim for a premium price. Love the most obscure of the obscure! Steve

A.J. Prior to 1925, W-K were four cylinder, lower-middle-priced cars.. In an effort to capitalize on the rising apparent prosperity, they added the six cylinder 236.4 ci Model 66 126" wb priced around $2K. This held through the 1927 66A even as the prices rose. For 1928-'29, it was designated Great Six 66A, the bore increased for 255 ci. and a 135" wb model added. These were competition for Studebaker President FA/FB, Auburn 88/115, Graham-Paige 629/827, Kissel 8-80, Hupmobile E-3/Century 125, Gardner 8-90/8-90, basically all those heretofore medium-priced makes taking a run at the entry-level 'luxury' segment. For 1930-'31, it became Model 66B, reduced only to a five body style 120" wb line, priced uniformly at $1,895. Best of all, it received that elegant styling by Amos Northup of Murray Corporation, which didn't last long. W-O was experiencing the affects of the Depression, restyled it into the 66D during '31, carried through '32 and petered out as a 66E sedan only for 1933. Like all small producers, W-O was generating new model lines during 1931'32 like mad to try and capture more sales. Even went so far as to offer the Continental-engine Willys 8-80 as a bid for eight cylinder buyers. W-O had acquired Stearns-Knight in late 1925 as its prestige line. Turned out Stearns-Knight was an archaic, terribly inefficient operation, a money pit for W-O to keep alive. In addition to their six, the Model G-8 sleeve-valve straight eight was added for 1928, becoming the Model H 137" wb and Model J 145" wb in the $5,500 range. But, among the most obscure of the obscure are the 1929 M-6-80, 126" wb and N-6-80, 134" wb, 255 ci six, sound familiar? At $2,500-$2,900, these were not much more than badge-engineered, restyled 66A, maybe with nicer appointment. It was all for naught, Stearns-Knight shut down at the end of 1929. This is my analysis from reading the spec's and Standard Catalog of American Cars 180-1942, edited by Kimes and Clark. A great Stearns-Knight article by Dr. Robert Ebert in the Automotive History Review by the Society of Automotive Historians informs this synopsis. Steve

The complete '31 is an 845 seven-passenger sedan or sedan-limousine, factory bodied. The other appears to be an All-Weather Town Car possibly by LeBaron, or the in-house custom-body department which started in 1930 to bring more of that lucrative business under Packard control. It could be Rollston as well. Steve

Is the Hotel Inglewood still there? The urge to go fast and look cool when doing so developed along with the automobile.

"I will pay you what you are asking for your item" "...with a cashier's check" "For your trouble, the check will be $$$$ dollars more than the price ask" "My agent will arrange shipping" Only people who live under rocks don't recognize this scam now. I use bank-issued Official Checks for large transfers. They collect the payment from me, issue the check to the payee after the funds transfer to them first. Wire probably works the same way, but it is satisfying to hand that check to the seller in person...

Another street rod that is "the car that dares to be known by bad taste alone..." Depressingly, monotonously uniform...

Its a 1946 Lincoln by the hood 'vents' trim, possibly hexagonal hubcap centers. The hood ornament would have two short wings in the speared ball.

Bump as a reminder, if you go to the auction, please give us a report. Better, if you buy this gem, please tell us about your new acquisition. Thanks.

1929 REO Flying Cloud Mate or 1930 REO Flying Cloud Model 15.

Whatever else old collector cars are, they're a luxury, one doesn't have to have one to live. Sure, they can provide many enjoyable, worthwhile experiences, but so too can other avenues and activities which are less costly and less logistically challenging, especially for urban dwellers. Current demographic trends are increasingly toward discretionary spending for experiential enjoyment. Travel to participate in recreational, athletic activities consumes far more interests now than does the ownership of things to achieve that end. Car collecting isn't being helped by a generation raised on non-involvement with cars in general. We're all familiar with the constant attention functional systems of old cars require to keep them in operating condition. Since the advent of computerized engine electronic and fuel control, maintenance free chassis components and even less frequent oil changes have changed the attitude toward cars to that of an appliance. Those auction examples where significantly high prices are paid for rare, highly desirable cars are anomalies in the overall scheme of things. Its done by people insulated from the realities of life of the majority of the population by their wealth. For those with ordinary, run-of-the-mill, production cars, even in fine condition, the next owner has to perceive its ownership will be a genuine benefit in enough ways to even consider the price being ask. For younger people already strapped with demands on their disposable income, such an expenditure is viewed as unnecessary or simply beyond their capability. Off the soapbox. Steve

Cord renumbered leftover 1936 models as well, never have read that before. It does make sense given the economic environment, especially for untried, relatively expensive cars such a Cord. Packard and Kaiser-Frazer both ended up renumbering masses of leftover cars in the 1948-'50 years purely because of management decisions to over-produce without adjusting to current sales demand. It cost both companies dearly, millions to clean up new discounted cars, diverted sales from their newest models, damaged their respective dealership organizations and flooded the used car with cars that depressed the resale value of their cars in general. The lingering damage contributed to the eventual demise of both carmakers, among those causes.

Good, glad to know serious damage wasn't done, hard to tell from the poor photos. West, Will you be attending the auction?

GregLaR Here's the link: http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=20543&forum=4&post_id=202101#forumpost202101 Includes another link to a AACA Forum thread where this car has been discussed before. Anytime one runs across a club or formal sedan of questionable origin, the telltale is always the upper rear door frame which if its original will have the correct curved form and conforming drip molding. No one trying to create a club or formal sedan from the six window styles bothers to go to the trouble to get this key detail correct. Simply closing or "blanking out" the quarter window doesn't do the job. Not surprisingly, these ersatz efforts always seem to be credited to a custom coachbuilder with commensurate prices. Steve

Packard added the four window club sedan for only the 1940 Eighteenth Series to the 120, 160 and 180 127" wheelbase models, none in 1939 Seventeenth Series, dropped it for 1941. Presumably this was in anticipation of the new Clipper to arrive mid-season. This car was discussed on our PackardInfo Forum at one time when it was offered on Craigslist. Some conclusion were drawn on how it may have come to be. I'll locate the topic and post a link. Steve

I ran across this '58 Packard about twenty years ago in an auction at Norwich during the Memorial Day weekend events. Its a pretty solid, decent example. I have the numbers written down somewhere, recall it was about midway through the production year. Fast forward ten years, it shows up on eBay, then in the Geneseo, NY area. Next its was bought by a local garage owner in Nunda, who enjoyed it a few years before he fell ill with cancer and passed. Its been since sold, gone who knows where. But I expect it will come to my attention again here in a few years. My preference is for a 1957 Clipper town sedan, a good one.

Typical of the "hey, let turn this rough sedan, coupe, whaterver into a snazzy roadster and cash in!" The telltales are always the surface development in specific areas: the cowl which were handled very differently on roadsters and phaetons versus closed styles. And the rear panels which are dead flat i.e. no lofting or gentle curvature which was the standard practice of professional coachbuilders. The quick-buck customizers don't have and/or aren't skilled in the use of the English wheel and panel-beating tools and its shows. I'm sure that Chris Bohman and Maurice Schwartz would take great issue with having this body 'credited' to them! Steve

58L-Y8 is the model designation for the 1958 Packard sedan, hardtop and station wagon. Oddly enough, I've never owned one. Elsewhere on-line, I go by 58L8134 which is the serial number of the last 1958 Packard built, the end of the line.

Thanks, nice look at those artifacts of another time. Someone's First Series 1935 Graham Six expired in beautiful country.

If anyone here attends the auction, please give us a report. Better yet, if you buy it, tell us all about it, body number etc.

Apparently an effort was made to 'convert' this rare, highly desirable semi-custom LeBaron Sport Brougham into a two door coupe. Talk about a car falling into the wrong hands! Steve

This auction to be held May 18th, 2019 at Laurelville, Ohio includes a 1941 Packard 180 LeBaron Sport Brougham! https://www.auctionzip.com/Listings/3272324.html?kwd=Packard&zip=14836&category=4 Photos: https://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/photopanel.cgi?listingid=3272324&category=4&zip=14836&kwd=Packard Its an ambitious project but extremely worthwhile given how rare and desirable this model is, hope it finds a new, appreciative conservator. Steve

See Packard For Sale for auction details.