ROD W

Is the engine turning over properly now using the hand crank. Will the car start with the crank handle. Check that the starter and generator brushes are engaging and disengaging properly when you push on the starter pedal. A previous thread covered this in detail.

A 1926 Master chassis

That hub is very badly worn, I would try and pick up a better one if possible. the teeth are meant to have the flats on the ends, for both the flywheel and the hub. I would,t use that hub, you would continue to have clutch problems.

rwolf As the engine was running then suddenly stopped, and now unable to turn forward. As Brian Heil said it may be a problem with the one way clutch or the distributor gear. Remove the distributor and see if it will turn over.

Larry, Thanks for all those photo,s, and the comparison of standard and master clutches, you've certainly been up to your elbows in fun. I,m sure that well greased thow-out bearing doesn,t need replacing. The car should be a pleasure to drive with a new clutch.

Pete, I have the long spark plug sockets which have the narrow walls, so they don,t need grinding down. 7/8 fits the smaller pugs and 15/16 fits the larger one,s

Pull your clutch apart and see what it looks like. It doesn,t hurt to have a spare clutch and gear box. That clutch has five lined plates, see how many yours has. I thought 26 and 27 standards were the same.

SusanC, To start with remove the spark plugs using the correct size spark plug socket. Turn the engine over by hand using the crank/starter handle. The engine should turn easily, Remove the distributor cap, the water pump shaft should turn and you should see the rotor button turning in the distributor. Remove the tappet cover and see that all the valves are opening and closing properly, and the pushrods at the side of the engine are going up and down. If everything is turning smoothly that is good. Then you can think about the timing. Firstly ensure the correct spark plug leads are going to the plugs in the right order. I don,t have a four cylinder Buick, but it is probably 1,3,2,4. Somebody will tell us if this is wrong. When number one piston is at the top of its stroke ( on the firing stroke ) i.e when both valves are closed, the rotor button should be under the lead going to number one cylinder, next the rotor will be under the lead going to number 3 etc. With the distributor cap off, and the ignition switch on, check there is a spark at the points. If all this is operating properly it is a good start.

Max, Sounds interesting

hidden hunter, These clutches are nearly 90 years old, I don,t think any new clutch would last that long. I would take my discs to a Brake and Clutch shop to get relined. Just ensure the linings are the right thickness and file the grooves and splines in the flywheel and clutch hub as 50jetback outlines. Also replace the felt rear engine seal so your new linings don,t get covered in oil.

stuclipson, Those two photo,s are from a master, but the accelerator and advance/retard linkages are the same for the standard. This pic is from a 28 coupe in the for sale section of the forum. The shaft at the back of the motor is for the distributor advance/retard, the second lever is for the accelerator linkage. Don,t get confused by the carb, it is on the wrong way. The wiring for the horn and light switch come out at the bottom of the steering column.

Gary, It seems hard to believe the cork float would become saturated in just a few days. Maybe it is stuck in the down position or the cork has come off the end of the arm. Is the cork large enough. Maybe the arrow is catching on the gauge face. Just ideas. Photo courtesy of Dibarlaw.

Here are some pictures of a 26 or 27 but the 28 would be the same.

John, These are from a 25 workshop manual

I use clamps

Thanks for those scans Leif. It looks like the same clutch was used from 1919 through to the 1925 master. ( same part number). The 25 standard has a different part number but the discs seem to be the same, so Larry should be able to use those discs if his have been damaged in the clutch failure. Terry that clutch looks the same as my master clutch with the five lined discs. Yes it has been apart as it has been reassembled incorrectly, looks very clean, probably degreased when apart. Larry let me know how many discs your clutch has when it is out. (just interested) Rod

Terry, I always thought the Master would have a heavier duty clutch than the Standard, It has been 30 years since I sold my 25 standard and I have never seen the two clutches side by side, but looking at Leif,s scans it appears the master has five discs where as the standard has four discs. The lined and unlined discs both have the same parts number, so looks like they are inter changeable. I have not had need to remove my 1920 clutch. but would assume 1920 to 1923 would be the same as they have the same motor. If Leif has a parts book for the early 20,s It would be good to see if the clutches are the same. as the 25. I know the 24 and 25 master clutches are the same, and the 25 and 26 standard clutches are different Rod

The spokes look too short and thick for a 24, I,d go for a later 27 or 28 on the 21" wheel

gpdc, The sliding gear connecting the starter and the flywheel ring gear should start to engage before the starter brushes actually come into contact with the commutator so there is a minimum of crunching as the starter gear is only turning slowly. Possibly if new starter brushes have been installed, they may be too long and the starter motor is operating before the gears are engaging

Yes, that sounds good Tony

gpdc, Here are some photo,s of what tonybuick is saying.Remove the plate so you can see the gears moving. The starter gear needs to completely disengage as soon as the motor starts. Pic 4 is when the starter pedal is not depressed, the top gear is the starter gear ( when the ignition is turned on you will see this turning and hear the clutch clicking). The lower gear seen in pic 4, connects the starter gear to the flywheel. When the starter pedal is depressed this gear slides backwards engaging the starter gear with the ring gear on the flywheel,this can be seen in pic 3. Oil the shafts and get somebody to depress the starter pedal a number of times until they are engaging and disengaging properly. Without the starter gear turning you will need to turn the lower gear with your finger to align the cogs while depressing the starter pedal. Post some pics of the car. Rod

Check the pilot bush in the centre of the fly wheel isn,t worn. Check the clutch throw out bearing, If your relining the clutch discs it would be a good idea to replace the felt oil seal at the back of the motor.( if the back of the motor is very oily). But this can be done later. Ensure the splined discs move freely in the splines on the fly wheel and the splined clutch hub. Ensure the clutch discs are not bent or warped.

Hidden hunter This is the way they removed the rear axles in 1930. There is one fellow working under the car, If I was under the car I would want more than just a block and tackle holding it up. Dibarlaw, sorry to hear about your ongoing clutch problems.

Very nice SusanC, I was going to ask if it was a four or a six, but then noticed it has a painted black radiator surround, so I would say it is a four cylinder. It does look like a fuel filter to me. But as the car has been sitting for a number of years there is sure to be a build up of sediment in the tank and vacuum tank and the filters in the carburator fuel bowl. The photo shows the sediment in the vacuum tank of a car I bought not long back, no wonder they couldn,t get the car to run and changed it over to an electric fuel pump. What I would do, is disconnect the fuel line from the gasoline tank, dismantle and clean the vacuum tank and carburetor, ensuring the jets are not blocked and the air valve is not sticking. Get the car running properly just by filling the vacuum tank up with fuel, this way you know your not getting more sediment coming through from the gasoline tank. Good luck with your car. Post more photo,s Rod

Some more photo,s. Pic 3 Newly lined discs for a 26