Pete in PA

My official 1936 D2 sedan resurrection thread

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I suggest Ebay or on this forum. Ebay for the most exposure. So good to see a child excited about an old car. Like I was at his age....

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Oh dear.  Today I made the mistake of going to Andy Bernbaum's site.  Oh dear.  I could spend a lot of money there in a short period of time.  A lot of rubber parts in one fell swoop.  Windshield opening gasket, horn cover to fender gasket, headlight stanchion to grill shell gaskets, cowl vent gasket, bumper bracket covers, and so on.  Does anyone have firsthand experience with his offerings, especially the ones I mentioned?

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29 minutes ago, Pete in PA said:

Oh dear.  Today I made the mistake of going to Andy Bernbaum's site.  Oh dear.  I could spend a lot of money there in a short period of time.  A lot of rubber parts in one fell swoop.  Windshield opening gasket, horn cover to fender gasket, headlight stanchion to grill shell gaskets, cowl vent gasket, bumper bracket covers, and so on.  Does anyone have firsthand experience with his offerings, especially the ones I mentioned?

We're even lucky that he does this type of business. Very few people in this type of business today. They are dying off or getting too old. We have lost about 6 people doing this in the last 10 years. Very few vendors in the US make parts anymore. Most are from China and they are very inferior. When you buy wheel cylinders or a master cylinder, they have to be redone. That is just a start from what we have experienced. Good luck with your build and keep us posted.

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Andy no longer owns the business but they still carry many parts, but for the rubber parts I would recommend Steele Rubber, the quality is better but it does cost a little more. I can give you the correct part numbers for your car. You have to watch, there is more than one option for some of the parts. If you want to save a little more money , I would suggest buying some of the stuff at Restoration Specialties in Johnstown , PA, I can a;so help you pick out the right parts. I can also remake the batwings for the front doors and the "fuzzies' that go around the rear qtr. windows.and front windows that will actually fit. Save all the old pieces for patterns as premade parts are not available for the door window parts. RS has the door post bumpers, they actually make them but the wedge retainer washers have to be reused from your originals if you still have them. I have made some of those too. The lower door rubber that's sold is really to small and not the right shape so you may have to make your own. Like I stated before, I don't know of anyone who sells the correct windshield seal kit and I've searched having been in the business. I'd be happy to help you anytime if you like.

Edited by jpage (see edit history)
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33 minutes ago, jpage said:

Andy no longer owns the business but they still carry many parts, but for the rubber parts I would recommend Steele Rubber, the quality is better but it does cost a little more. I can give you the correct part numbers for your car. You have to watch, there is more than one option for some of the parts. If you want to save a little more money , I would suggest buying some of the stuff at Restoration Specialties in Johnstown , PA, I can a;so help you pick out the right parts. I can also remake the batwings for the front doors and the "fuzzies' that go around the rear qtr. windows.and front windows that will actually fit. Save all the old pieces for patterns as premade parts are not available for the door window parts. RS has the door post bumpers, they actually make them but the wedge retainer washers have to be reused from your originals if you still have them. I have made some of those too. The lower door rubber that's sold is really to small and not the right shape so you may have to make your own. Like I stated before, I don't know of anyone who sells the correct windshield seal kit and I've searched having been in the business. I'd be happy to help you anytime if you like.

Have a customer doing a high-end resto on a 36 Dodge coupe. Who has the best seals for the headlamp stands and buckets. Money is no problem with this customer. Thanks for the help.

Dave

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Having been around long enough to see some rubber parts turn hard and crusty during my lifetime, bought from more than one vender I have to agree that Steele Rubber has the best quality rubber.

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Junior and I spent a few hours with the Dodge yesterday.  More accurately *under* the Dodge.  We jacked up the rear end and put stands under the axle tubes.  Then I got a creeper and surveyed the underside for the first time.  I was pleasantly surprised because things looked remarkably good for an 80 year old car.  I work on 10 year old cars that look worse on a lift due to PA road salt!

 

We removed the cobbled-together exhaust system.  It had one of those corrugated, bend-to-fit JC Whitney pipes from the muffler back.  Didn't fit very well and was rusted through anyway.  The muffler was an Arvin brand with a production date of April 1958!  Very solid but the inlet pipe is loose.  The head pipe is also on of those corrugated things but I'm leaving that in place for now.

 

Tried to remove the gas tank but failed.  The strap nuts came loose just fine but I couldn't crack loose the fuel line flare nut.  Maybe today...  I didn't want to get too nuts under there because thumping the bottom of the tank tells me that there's a lot of old gas in there.  Drain screw is stuck so I couldn't tell for sure.  There doesn't seem to be any rot on the tank but there is a dented area around the drain plug and scrape marks.  The car must have been driven over something...

 

We'll see if we can get the tank out today.

 

I could see that the brake tubing on the rear axle housing was new and nicely done.  Part of the fuel tubing was also replaced but not the stuff close to the tank.  Leaf springs are still wrapped in their shields and look good.  Rear wheels turn freely.  Parking brake was rebuilt for the previous owner.

 

I'm still very happy with this purchase.  The car is pretty solid and virtually complete.  The worst area is the grille and radiator shell which is too bad.  I really want to clean the fuel tank, buy a battery, and fire up the engine.  That will give junior (and me) a big shot of enthusiasm.

Edited by Pete in PA (see edit history)

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Another few hours spent under the Dodge.  Gas tank removal pleasure was denied.  I got everything disconnected (or so I thought) and started to lower the tank.  Man that thing is heavy!  Must be very robust for road conditions of the day.  Well it quickly became clear that the tank would have to be angled downward very sharply toward the passenger side to get the filler neck clear of the body/undercarriage.  Except that's not possible because the driver's side of the tank hits the left leaf spring.  I've removed many, many gas tanks and strained my brain to figure out what was going on.  Chrysler couldn't *possibly* require leaf spring disconnecting to get that tank out.  No way.  But repeated attempts at maneuvering the tank out failed and I was tired, sore, dirty and frustrated.  We gathered up our tools to head home and I decided to have one more look at the filler neck area.  There just *had* to be a sign there of what was necessary.  And as I surveyed the situation I had the "a-ha!" moment.  There's a *reason* that two square cuts are made in the filler neck end of the tank tube...  That tank tube *unscrews* from the tank.  But that is a battle for another day and I may have to fabricate a tool.  I don't want to use a pipe wrench or similar tool and damage that tube.  To be continued...

 

Also, Junior made a discovery today that surprised me.  I had told him that you couldn't lock the car from the outside.  He proved me wrong by pointing out that there's a door locking cylinder on the *passenger* side front door!  I don't understand why there isn't another locking cylinder on the driver's door.  Very, very weird.  Can anyone shed any light on this issue?  And should the door key match the ignition key?

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Most vehicles of the era had the outside door lock on the passenger side so as to make a safe exit to the curb and not into the street. The driver's interior door handle will lift to lock from the inside. Then, you get out on the passenger side safely and lock the door from the sidewalk.

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)

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None of the cars i have had any notches in the filler tube for removal. Whilst there may be threads on the tube I would caution you from trying to unscrew it. If you damage it, you may have a difficult time finding a replacement. The tank should slide over to the left far enough to clear the spring on the right side. yes, the door key should match the ignition but it does not match the trunk handle lock.

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Thanks to both of you for enlightenment on the locking door issue.  Interesting.  Ironically, these days most cars don't have a *passenger side*  door lock cylinder.  Some, like Teslas, don't have any at all.

 

As for the fuel tank, I'll bet that the 4 passenger sedan has a different fuel tank arrangement than the touring sedan.  There's just no way that tank is coming out by moving it left or right and then downward.  It's trapped between the leaf springs and can't come straight down due to the filler neck that goes up about 6 inches and then makes an almost 90 degree turn outboard.

 

Anyone have a D2 parts catalog?  That would show if the 4 passenger sedan tank matches other body styles.

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I'll check it out, but I think that the tanks are the same for all body styles Except maybe the 7 passenger.

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Doesn't the filler tube have a rubber hose between it and the tank neck?

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Yes it does but the upper part of the tube is very short.  Basically it's a. 3" diameter 90 degree elbow. That is joined tto a 8" long straight pipe that seems to thread into a tower that is soldered to the top of the tank.

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In checking my parts book, all tanks are the same except for the sedan delivery and all frames are the same except the 7 passenger sedan.

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So I guess the tank itself is the same as shown in the parts book.  What about other parts that attach to the tank like the tube I'm seeing?  Something must be different because, as I've said, I've removed many, many gas tanks and this one is captive between the leaf springs.  And the "tower" that is soldered to the top of the tank hits the body when  I try to move the tank towards the passenger side of the car.

 

I'll try to take some pics of what I'm up against but the D2 is backed into a garage and up on stands.  I don't know that I can get a good shot of the situation.

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I'm wondering if your tank clearance problem isn't caused by the fact that you have jack stands under the rear axle, thus holding the springs as far up as if the car was merely standing flat on the road. Perhaps if you position the stands underneath the frame rails the weight of the rear end would drop down and lower the springs enough to finesse the tank past the springs.

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The tank should drop right down as the edges of the tank are inboard of the springs. Here's a photo of a tank in the frame but without the body; you'll notice that the filler tube is quite close to the frame.

IMG18.JPG

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On 8/12/2017 at 1:11 AM, Hudsy Wudsy said:

I'm wondering if your tank clearance problem isn't caused by the fact that you have jack stands under the rear axle, thus holding the springs as far up as if the car was merely standing flat on the road. Perhaps if you position the stands underneath the frame rails the weight of the rear end would drop down and lower the springs enough to finesse the tank past the springs.

I considered that but I don't think it's the problem.  Letting the rear axle hang won't lower the springs far enough to get them out of the way.  I may try to do it though if the filler neck doesn't unscrew easily.  Thanks for the suggestion.

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20 hours ago, jpage said:

The tank should drop right down as the edges of the tank are inboard of the springs. Here's a photo of a tank in the frame but without the body; you'll notice that the filler tube is quite close to the frame.

IMG18.JPG



Great picture, jpage!  Is that your work?  If so it's beautiful.

The picture illustrates exactly what I'm talking about.  Sure the tank fits between the leaf springs and could drop straight down *if* that straight tube filler pipe didn't hit the frame on the way down.  And when the body is mounted there's a sheet metal pocket or channel in the floor/inner fender that fits around that tank tower and straight pipe that prevents the tower from moving toward the passenger side of the car.

I'm working alone today but will make a run to the garage to reassess the situation.

Edited by Pete in PA (see edit history)

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The tank I had made at a local tinsmith's shop who copied the tank perfectly. He installed the baffle and all the original fixtures. It's all galvanized with rolled and soldered seams so there is no rust from welding. I do think, and I could be wrong as I have not had to drop a tank with the body on, that if you did jack the car from the frame, there should be enough room to slide the tank between the spring and the frame on the right side far enough for the filler tube to clear. I doubt that after all these years that the tube extension would unscrew from the mount. I see that the outer tube is a serviceable part as it's listed in the parts book so maybe it does come apart but be careful. Curious to find out as I have one in a parts car that needs taken out but may wait until the body is off. I would soak the daylights out of the joint with a good rust remover for a while prior to trying it. I might suggest inserting a  piece of steel pipe that just fits the id if the filler tube and using a good strap wrench on it so as not to crush the tube.

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