Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Well now, sufferen sucatash! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> It broke, and the warranty ran out over 90 years ago, parts are obsolete. What to do now??? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> It is so rare one Can't even be found used! And even if you did you may not want to use it anyway considering the poor quality of metal of 1915. The metalurgy of the time hadn't been developed for these high stress parts quite yet. Time to head down to the shop, pick out a good piece of stock, and get to work! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />Ouch!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 A closer look! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Like an old hound dog yelpin in the night at the full moon. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Oooowwwooooo When it broke, It was just a little "tink," and the car would not move! The good part was that it was right outside the door of the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Tool one. South Bend 13 inch swing by six foot bed. It is good for about 40 inches between centers. There it is, not an axle yet, between the centers. This operation is done between centers and driven with a dog and face plate to keep the axle concentric. It can be taken out and put back in end for end and still be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Turning the first landing which will need to be threaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Down to diameter. First to cut the taper and then we will come back to do the threading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 To the right is the taper attachment. Tapers can be cut two ways. One is with this attachment, and the other is with the compound which can be angled in degrees. The compound is better for short tapers. This job requires a long taper so it is the taper attachment we will use. Hi ho, Hi ho, It's off to work I go....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Cutting the taper. To get the taper at the correct angle I set the old unbroken left axle in the lathe and used a dial indicater to "0" it in. It took some trial and error to get it right as the old axle was not concentric and I had to pick a happy medium. It was set to just under four degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 There it is! Now to try it in the hub. If it wiggles it is no good and the angle will need to be changed slightly until a good fit is obtained. Lastly it is a good pratice to lap it in the hub with some laping compound. Getting this to fit the hub snugly is the most critical part of the job. All other dimensions can be finished once this part of the job is correct. It is always good to have a longer piece than you need so there is room to make minor changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Day two. Getting things ready to thread. The thread size is an off the wall 63/64ths X 20. on the hub end. 63/64ths is the outer most diameter of the thread and "20" is the number of threads per inch. This is not a standard size. Although with a thread cutting lathe it is not a problem. To do the threading procedure the piece needs to be "undercut" just below the inside diameter of the thread as can be seen in the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Set up to cut threads. The compound is the part that is angled and has the tool holder and post on it. To the right is a rectagle shaped object with a round dial. This is a Thread Chasing Dial. To cut threads everything must be perfectly timed or the job will go kabluewie . I sharpened a tool bit at the same angle as the shape of the threads which is 60 degrees. I have a threading tool but could not use it because there was not enough clearence. Also the compound is angled to 60 degrees. As the tool enters the work the threads are cut from one side of the tool. The advancing side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 The threading operation has started. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> There it is, and the nut fits like a glove <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 This photo is of the other end. The spider gear will be attached here when the machining is complete. This thread also is not standard and is .863 X 20. There is no fractional size for this. Talk about not being standard! What were they thinking in 1915? The nut fits like a glove on this end also. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Tool number two, cutting the keyway and milling the end will need to be done on this Bridegport Milling machine. Stay tuned, I'll be back for day three! Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZondaC12 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 WOW. nice job there! whatever you gotta do to get 'er to the show right? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />youve got a great metal shop! my dad would be able to talk with you for HOURS for sure. he too had a milling machine (late 80s enco) a sheet metal brake (late 90s enco) and a small lathe by atlas, i think thats also 1980s. he made a LOT of parts and custom modified many things for his 84 Reynard formula ford race car. he got this magazine monthly "The Home Shop Machinist". someday i gotta learn how to use these things! maybe ill make myself parts for MY buick! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />cant wait to see the '15!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Buick Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I wanna learn how to do that when I grow up!!Very nice work. Thanks for showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Thriller Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Very interesting...I'll be looking forward to the next steps, even though it is something I won't be replicating myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Day Three, Tool number 3. I used this power hacksaw to cut the ends to lenth. This is a great little tool that I picked up in a local indoor flea market many years ago. It was never used and I made a cart and mounted a motor on it. It still has the original paper product tag on it from the factory as I never took it off. The best part about this puppy is that it takes standard hacksaw blades that are easily found in places like Walmart. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> Love that tool! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Now, off to the mill boy wonder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 The axle is mounted in the Mill and is getting ready for a 5/16ths keyway this is how we are sure that it is level. That little round dial is a dial indicater and each line equals .001 thousandths of an inch. When it "zeros" in, or stays within a reasonable range as the table is moved along the X axis, then the part is level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 And the chips fly! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Look at that baby move. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> Cutting the keyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Looking Good! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 What a fit! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 First cut of four in squaring the end to insert the spider gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 NICE! I love it..........Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 The first flat completed. Three more to go. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Aaahhhhh. That's better. Nice and square. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 And the gear fits! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> This part of the job could have been done two ways. One, which is the way I chose because of the lenth of the axle, was to do it in the vice and square it with a precision machinests square on each cut. This is easy to do in a Kurt vice because when you clamp it the part stays still unlike screw vises that tend to kick the part as it is clamped. Good work requires good tools. The old saying, " It's a poor workman who blames his tools " won't cut it in a machine shop full of worn out and broken machines that cannot hold the tolerence necessary for the job at hand. The second way would be to set up an indexing/ dividing head with the axle between centers. My mill table was not long enough to do this. Most indexing heads are 40 to 1 ratio so the math woud have been easy. 10 turns to a side would make a square. Now, to get things cleaned up and ready for reassembly. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Here's the rearendless 1915 Buick C-36 in all its glory. It amazes me everytime I think about how any of these early cars ever survived the conditions of the highways of the times, and the weather, not to mention all the wars and scrap drives since the end of the brass era! And through it all, someone said, " It's too good to scrap" A big "Thank you" to whoever you are, wherever you are! I just want you to know that there are dedicated people keeping your dream alive of perserving our past for the future. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Dave! Why, That's Just "Dandy" Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 ZondaC12. Need something made someday? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Come on down. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> We'll leave the light on for ya! I have all sorts tools not found everywhere. A box and pan brake, Two sheet metal rollers, One that can roll 1/4 plate like nothing. A Brown and Sharpe 2L surface grinder, not yet wired because it just fell in the door recently. A peddle shear. Sioux valve grinder and seat tool, Tourch, welders, Sandblaster, and Glass bead Cabinet, not to mention the Wood working stuff and little stuff. When repair and restoration is your business you need this stuff to keep em rollin. ( Man, I really need more shelves around this place!) This is what happens when you've been collecting and repairing for more than 30 years. I ain't gettin rich doing this but I sure am having a lot of fun! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Oh yeah, This is my Big lathe! Another Southbend 16 inch swing X 12 foot bed. It is good for about 9 foot between centers. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Dave, Nice job and thanks for all the picures.Any you are correct, I have used one of my local machinists more often then I thought restoring a 1950 Buick. Just little pieces that need to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Thriller Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 The old and the new! I thought it would be in my best interest to make two while I was at it. The left is longer than the right side and for some unknown reason the shorter of the two axles was undercut in the center. The only thing that I can think is that the fellow on the production line that day must have been a first time beginner and did'nt know what he was doing. I corrected the problem in producing the new one. I even have an original parts book with pictures, and it is pictured the way I made it and not the way the original was. Upon close examination of the broken axle I could see it was fatiged and was full of fractures on the end that it gave up. It was a very old break and was only holding by a small section as most of the crack was already oxidized. I am very thankful that it did not break when I was on the highway while my children were with me. You never know what is inside of these early machines or what kinds of punishment it had to endure in its former life. Happy Trails, <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaWildcat Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Dave,You need a Matt Harwood or Barry Wolk style website to detail all this. You are a great craftsman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Nice work Dave, not only on the axles, but on the documentation of the process here. You made this look so easy, I'm sure everyone will give it a try at home this weekend... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_56BuickSuper Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Not having the tools or talant to do this myself. What would be a fair cost to have this done? I know it would vary, but would like a ballpark idea. I do not need one made so this would not be a quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 25, 2007 Author Share Posted March 25, 2007 First expense would be for the material. Around $90 for a piece of 4140. Time $50 PHR for most machine shops in this area. I did not keep real good track of the time it took but will guess a conservitive 7 hours of set up time and machining per axle. Let's see now. Guessing at $440 an axle and that I belive is low balling the job because it took more time than that not to mention the thought in planing how to attack the job so the end result works and fits like it should. Planing each operation is vital in this kind of work. What made this job difficult was getting the taper right. Once that was right the other dimesions was measured from that point. If the small end of the taper sticks out of the wheel, then the nut would not tighten to it and the wheel would end up in the wrong place being in too far and loose and the inner brakes would scuff on the brake drum. If it was to fat on that end, the wheel would be out too far and cause another whole set of problems. It is difficult to put a price on a project like this so I hope nobody orders any expecting me to do it for that. Modern axles are made a lot different than these and it is a good thing that they are. In fact, Buick changed the way these axles were made with the 1916 models so that the entire rearend did not have to come apart like mine did. The axles came out with the wheel bearing flange. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_56BuickSuper Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Thanks for the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Thanks for the link to this, it was fun and informative to read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUICK RACER Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 HI Dandy Dave! How timely this thread appeared, as I was just talking about it yesterday with a friend of mine. We have a friend Larry with the '15 Buick Truck that was in Flint, he was trying to get it on the trailer to bring to 100th GM Car Show at the GM Tech Center in September, last year when it went tink and rolled back off the trailer. Do you think he may have the same problem? Thanks, I'll be passing this link on to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts_DG8 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Ok, these are again some great skills to be having. I am totally taken with the end product. Great job... If you lived a bit closer I would be over for some training and education. And there is another option for you, and that would be to communicate that you would be open to taking on a student or two. Of course there would have to be lab fee's and student projects and if you’re lucky maybe one of them will bring ya an apple (or a 6-pack). Again, Great job… Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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