57 Chevrolet VIN tag

[DizzyDale]

Hi,I am looking for a 1957 Chevrolet 2 door VIN tag.I want to put a NEW 57 drag car on the street.Thanks.diz <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[ted sweet]

not worth my time.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Ted,Please explain whats KINDA illegal about using the vin tag and number off a car that could have been off the road for 50 years? diz <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

[Oxnard Montalvo]

It's just a really, really, really FULL restoration when the only original piece is the vin tag. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[ted sweet]

i aint even going to bother.

[DizzyDale]

If ANYBODY can help me with this please contact me at phaeton37@aol.com I promise i wont mention any names to the VIN police captained by Ted from Albany[probably a state employee]Thanks.diz <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[R W Burgess]

Ted, Dizzy isn't the illegal type, honest! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Wrong!!!!

He is a drag racer, you know. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Wayne

[Guest windjamer]

Dizzy, its bad enough to steal from the cookie jar, but for gosh sakes dont tell the world your going to do it. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> but then your name says it all. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Dick

[joe_padavano]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok, not kinda of illegal, totally illegal. its illegal to remove a vin tag and put it on another car.

</div></div>

Once again, NO, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL under Federal Law to remove and alter a VIN tag. It is only illegal if there is intent to commit fraud. Read the law for yourself under subsection 18 U.S.Code section 511 that you can find here:

http://law.onecle.com/uscode/18/511.html

The US Dept of Justice goes on to say:

"To prove a violation of Section 511, it must be established that: (1) the defendant knowingly removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered an identification number on a road motor vehicle (or component); (2) the identification number was one required by the United States Department of Transportation (DOT); and (3) such conduct was not done lawfully (e.g., defendant knew the vehicle was stolen and was trying to conceal its identity)."

That reference is available here:

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01375.htm

Reasonable people can argue as to whether the original request in this thread constitutes a legal VIN replacement or not, but the general statement that doing so is illegal is NOT correct.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Joe,Thanks for posting the <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> info <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />,i have NO intention of commiting ANY kind of fraud.Seems some people here were fitting me for a NOOSE.diz <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[ted sweet]

if this is the car hobby, i need a new hobby.

[Mike Cullen]

Attaching a VIN from vehicle B to Vehicle A in order to title and register vehicle A for use on the public highways is comitting fraud. In order to title and register vehicle A for use on public highways you need the VIN documentation (in NY a transferrable registration for a 57) for vehicle A. Attaching a VIN not originally attached so as to avoid compliance with documentation requirements is intentional and fradulent, (of course, it happens every day). There is a process in NY to get a registration for a car with no original registration, but they make you jump through hoops, it consists of inspection by DMV for hidden VIN and then they run a check to make sure it hasn't been stolen or officially junked. Then they issue a non-transferrable registration for a certain period of time. Try one of the out of state title service companies, use the VIN from the car you intend to keep on the road. (that likely will be faster than dealing with NY DMV)

[DizzyDale]

Dear Mike,Thanks for the info,sounds like you are from this neck of the woods.How is the Zephyr???Write me at phaeton37@aol.com and i will tell you a story about THAT car.diz <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[biod929]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reasonable people can argue as to whether the original request in this thread constitutes a legal VIN replacement or not, but the general statement that doing so is illegal is NOT correct. </div></div>

Yes and it seems like someone is trying to get around the rules somewhere. Now why would you need to get a VIN from an original 57 to put on what sounds like a not street legal drag car?

[mrpushbutton]

Boy, I hope no Mopar muscle guys read this. They have their own little fender tag factory going.

[ted sweet]

cant believe 325+ views and no body else has a comment.

[Pontiac59]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There is a process in NY to get a registration for a car with no original registration, but they make you jump through hoops, it consists of inspection by DMV for hidden VIN and then they run a check to make sure it hasn't been stolen or officially junked. Then they issue a non-transferrable registration for a certain period of time. Try one of the out of state title service companies, use the VIN from the car you intend to keep on the road. (that likely will be faster than dealing with NY DMV) </div></div>

With a vehicle that has a serial number but no registration in New York: Just go to the DMV and ask for an MV51 and MV51-B. Those forms do not require notarization, just some cooperation on the previous owner's part if you have owned the vehicle in question less than one year. These forms, plus proof of serial number (photo or pencil-etching), proof of weight (weight slip, other similar cars in DMV computer, or a page from a Standard Catalog Of ______ with delivery weight all will work), and the normal auto registration items (reciept, insurance cards, MV82 or whichever the green sheet is) will get you a nontransferrable THE SAME DAY. The DMV never looks at your car. 30 to 90 days later you get a transferrable if the registration is clean - I do not know how long they keep records for on hard copy in Albany.

My '50 Chevy is currently registered using these forms last summer and a gentleman I sold a '58 Chevy Sedan Delivery to used the same forms to register his car - which was basically built from pieces as the '58 delivery was so rough he left the frame behind and only took the body.

As for your tag, just go buy a cheap parts car or bare shell somewhere and remove the tag from it. 55-57 Chevy tags are more or less glued on, hit them with a heat gun if you have to, I have a '56 tag in my collection that just about fell off a junkyard shell, in my hand - I didn't even need to pry on it with a screwdriver. Rough up your A-post if it's a fiberglass shell and epoxy it in place -

Also it makes no difference what body style the tag comes from - there is nothing in 55-57 serial numbers to tell the difference if the car was a 2dr, 4dr, or what.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Pontiac59,Thanks for takin the time to post your experiences.diz <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Mike Cullen]

You still have that paragraph in there about swapping VIN tags....... submitting MV forms for a vehicle with incorrect VIN tag attached is still fraud. See if you can find a frame stamping of the serial number and use that number, not the one you attach.

[Pontiac59]

The '58 Chevy sedan delivery I sold, the frame was in pieces, it sat in the mud for so long all that held the thing together was a little tin over the rear axle and a couple of body mounts up front.

My buyer didn't take the frame, original floorpan, front suspension, or fenders - just the doors, roof and side panels, with quarters, liftgate, and front bumper and grille. I scrapped the remainder of the frame. We took the car apart with our bare hands and a few cuts from a reciprocating saw, it was that bad.

He used another '58 Chevy to build the car, and e-mailed me about 8 months later looking to register it. I gave him the same information I posted here. Undoubtedly his car has a different hidden serial number. I've never heard anything back since, I assume he had no problem with it.

In that case, he not only swapped the tag, but the whole support structure the tag mounts to (I think they're still on the A-post on those cars, I've forgotten). The car's basically built from pieces of two or more cars. Is that still fraud?

I guess, do what you like. The chances of your car being inspected that close are slim to none, and there are very few police who wouldn't have to get out a book to even know where to look for that hidden stamp. On NY cars, unless it's right in the frame rail it could have rotted away long ago, and even on the frame rail they can be nearly impossible to find. As long as you're not doing this to sell the car, it's your business - if you do decide to sell the car one day, keep your tag and reg and sell it without paperwork. Let the new buyer find a tag to use on it.

I do know this much. I've been in enough old junkyards to know that tag swapping was extremely common in pre-title days in New York. So many cars I find missing tags completely - not just fallen off - there can be no other explanation. It used to be you had to hop through a new hoop every time you went back to the DMV to register a vehicle that had no papers. So you could spend hours and many trips and headaches, or one trip to a junkyard and swap a couple parts and go. For instance on Fords from at least 58-67 and trucks through '72 the tag is on the driver's door. I'd be real surprised if there aren't a lot of junked Fords that ran for a while with a swapped door or swapped tag on the door where the door was replaced. After the car has been around for 40-50 years, you have no idea what happened to it or where it has been all that time, unless you buy it from the original owner's garage. It's something to bear in mind any time you buy an old car with a serial tag in an easily accessed location.

[Guest wezzy33]

DizzyDale I got a vin # tag

[Guest wezzy33]

For sale

[Pontiac59]

Not sure why this thread's been bumped back to the top. You think he's still looking for a tag SEVEN years later?

[28 Chrysler]

Seven years is about the right time frame.

I think he may be out and working on the next project.