Twitch Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Does anyone know why we still have the half-baked system that we are exposed to where we get liter-sized displacement and cubic inches depending on the advertisement? Since the US threw out the proposed switchover to the metric system for daily national commerce decades ago, why did liters remain pertaining to displacement in some conversation? It isn't that everyone reads Euro-focused car magazines is it? Kind of like being completely fluent in another language and using one word from your native language interjected in dialogue.I've never heard anyone refer to the 409 as the 6.76. Would make a heck of Beach Boys song though. "She's real fine my six point seven six..." Never found a way to find kilometers per liter of gas that would make sense to everyone either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Joe Kieliszek Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Hello,In linear measurement, I gotten so used to multiplying or dividingby 25.4 on my calculator, I stopped using the inch/metric buttonon digital readouts years ago. Sometimes the blueprints aredimentioned half and half anyway..Thanks,Joe Kieliszek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...why did liters remain pertaining to displacement in some conversation? </div></div> Because provinciality is dead outside of American politics. It simply isn't just an "American" car market any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Dear Twitch,I had a 66 Galaxie 7-litre whan i was goin to college in the mid seventies.428,4-speed with three dueces,lotsa fun once you got it rollin.OUTSTANDING t-bird type interior.LAST time Ford used the LITER term till the 5.0 Mustang.diz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bkazmer Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Fuel efficiency in usually expressed in liters/100 km in the rest of the world, not km/l. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 I just wish we'd end up with a standard. I've spent a bit of time outside the US using metrics and have no problem with them at all. I really know it's liters per 100km but it just sounds more impossibly menacing as liter per km. I remember the 7 liter Ford advertising came at a time when Henry Ford was beating Enzo Ferrari's butt in Gran Turisimo racing and I think that's what brought it on. However, the 390 was the 390 in all ads as was the 396 and 427 Chevrolets products. Olds and Buick never spoke in liters back then for sure. Diz, I think that when companies want to make something sound Euro-appealing they throw in the 'liter' for advertising purposes. Strange.Stranger still was/is the metric/SAE bolt head mixture to be found on cars. My 78 had all SAE but by my 87 there were lots of metric, but not all. Now its mostle SAE but a few metrics remain. Sure it's a by-product of the 'world car' but one or the other would be nice, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I think a lot of it <span style="font-style: italic">does</span> have to do with advertising. Most of the European and Asian manufacturers quote liters, so it makes sense to match them in advertising. People may not know how many cubic inches in 3.8 liters, but they know that 3.8 liters is bigger than 3.5. We've always had an edge in displacement in America, and still cling to the "bigger is better" mentality. If you have an advantage, it makes sense to advertise it in a way that makes comparison easy. Were we to compare the 231 cubic inch Buick to the 3.5 liter Honda, it's hard to say who's bigger, isn't it?Although metrics make more sense, it's hard for some (myself included) to grasp the numbers in actual terms. Instead, I have to do a conversion to get some idea of what the numbers represent. For example, it was 7 degrees celcius today. Cold, but how cold? I have no idea without converting it to farenheit, which puts the numbers into a context I understand better. I suspect it is the same with many Americans, and though we'd eventually get over it, it is a prospect I don't relish.I do, however, wish they would finally decide on SAE or metric bolts on cars. I know GM is all metric today, but Ford is a maddening mixture of both. Is that a 7/16" or a 13mm? Pick one or the other, I don't care which, but I hate having to use two sets of tools on my Fords. When I was doing Corvettes you could practically take the whole car apart with 10, 13, 15 and 19mm wrenches. That was nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I think the Pontiac GTO was first to begin all of this with their emblems pronouncing it a "6.5 liter." I guess as long as they were using the euro-association with "GTO" they just added the liter designation to stay with the theme. Only touble is that it had the good old USA 389 CUBIC INCH engine! Funny though, when they went with the 400 in 67, the ID badge kept the 6.5 liter designation. Even Ronnie & the Daytonas got it right "...3-duces & a 4-speed, & a 389."Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aanderson44 Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Well, For starters, you are talking about converting an entire nation from one system of measure to another, easy if you are a relatively small country, but considering that the US population is rapidly approaching 300 million, "easy" goes away pretty quickly.Some conversions are easy, for example, as a scale modeler, and designer of model and miniature cars for the plastic kit and diecast industry, I am so used to the simple conversion of 25.4mm to the inch (in my favorite personal modeling scale, 1:25, I simply use 1mm=1" in scale--not a problem). As a race car fan, the volume comparison is also easy: 61ci=1 liter. Weights are a bit of a different matter (ever wonder, when scanning over a label on a food package, weighed in ounces, just what percentage X grams of fat is?) Temperature? Another can of worms.We need to remember, that until fairly recently in our history, the US has been largely an isolated, and "isolationist" country. Most of what we have developed here happened because of our long-ingrained sense of independence--we've never (from the days of Washington, Adams, Jefferson AND Monroe) much cared for the idea of anything being pushed on us from abroad. So, major changes in the way we figure and measure things really do have to come from within, they cannot happen from without.I do believe, however, that within the next 10 years or so, the old "english" system of measurements will have pretty much gone by the wayside, as newer and younger generations, having been heavily exposed to metrics in schools, will adopt many of these wholesale.Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL) Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I think too many people get caught up in "conversions". The idea is not to convert units, but to get a mental picture of what the metric unit is. Once you have an idea how long a Km is, you don't care how many of them are in a mile. The only reason anyone cares is because they have no idea how long a Km is, but know about how far a mile is, so they try to convert. Once you know that it is 160 Kms to the state capitol or that it is 1 Km to the shopping center, you won't care how many miles that used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think too many people get caught up in "conversions". The idea is not to convert units, but to get a mental picture of what the metric unit is. Once you have an idea how long a Km is, you don't care how many of them are in a mile. The only reason anyone cares is because they have no idea how long a Km is, but know about how far a mile is, so they try to convert. Once you know that it is 160 Kms to the state capitol or that it is 1 Km to the shopping center, you won't care how many miles that used to be. </div></div>I agree, and that's <span style="font-style: italic">my</span> problem. I need to put the unfamiliar units into familiar terms. But knowing that and retraining my brain to recognize the differences is a task I do not want. I can make very rough guesses based on what I know of the metric system, but it still comes back to the conversion factor.This is also why learning other languages is so difficult--you have to learn to <span style="font-style: italic">think</span> in that other language before you can be come fluent. Thinking in English and converting it just doesn't work.And that's why I'm not a UN translator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real61ss Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Terry,Where I grew up, a liter was something a hog had Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do believe, however, that within the next 10 years or so, the old "english" system of measurements will have pretty much gone by the wayside, as newer and younger generations, having been heavily exposed to metrics in schools, will adopt many of these wholesale.Art </div></div>This may also be true for the English language... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Tommy, my sentiments exactly. I'll let my red neck stand out at this time. I'm tired of everyone trying to satisfy the world when we can't even satisfy ourselves. I realize that most everything in my house came from a foreign country, but they could take them all back, including this computer, and my life would probably be a lot less stressful. Even since I've become more involved on this new median, I've let more of my magazines sat unread and haven't read a long book in a long time. There, I feel better already. Don't need anymore sticking gadgets from Wal-Mart. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> A real Chevy has a 327, 350, or a 427 in it, that's cubic inches, guys! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Wayne,What happened to the 454?GOTTA agree with that 427,BEST engine i ever had 427 60 over,Venolia pistons over 15 to 1 c.r. and aluminum rods,cut a bunch of weight off the crank,800 lift Crane roller,E.P.D.Aluminum Chevy heads,Kinsler injected and 7.40 time slips back in 1989. diz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real61ss Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Wayne, Wayne, Wayne ..... You left out the most famous of all Chevrolet motors, my beloved 348 and 409's!!!!! Have fun in Philly, I'm not going to make it this year.Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Hey Dizz, what did you have that "monster motor" in anyway? As far as 454's, there are bunches of blown 454's in the Northern Neck garages around my area. They didn't hold up too well. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Tommy, sorry to hear you're not going to make it this year. I was going to "buy" you and everyone else a round of drinks in the hospitality suite. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I've got a full schedule that weekend. After Mike and I spend the weekend in Philly, I have to catch a plane out of Baltimore for a "boat ride" out of Tampa on Monday. The oldest boy, Matt, is getting married onship that following week, and 40 of my family members are going to cruise the islands all week, much fun. I'll be blitzed for at least 7 days. Trucks?, don't need no stinking trucks! Give me another round barkeep! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1959olds Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 While on this "metric" subject, why are spark plugs threaded metric? Even in my original 1940 Olds shop manual it tells the "metric" thread size for my plugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 Geez, that's right, 10 mm, 14 mm plugs and so on have always been metric! I learned meters in the service easily. A meter is basically a yard plus 10% was how I translated it at first. Close enough for calling in fire support! I just wonder why everything else is non-meteric except displacement which is in liters in many publictions and ads. Hemmings Classic Car does NOT thank goodnes. And neither does any publication relating to American cars- like a magazine on Chevys. They're still 305, 350, 409, 454cid. A 3-liter is a 183cid engine for crying out loud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boettger Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 O.K. Here's the deal.cubic-inch to liters 327=5.35348=5.7350=5.73409=6.7427=6.99Thats the old!How about the new big engine in the GM Trucks!8.0 liters = 488 cu. in.Maybe the auto manufacturers should bring back the Cu. In. specs.Would be cool in their quest for nostalgic styling.Of course 488 would be rounded to 490 ;o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Dear Wayne,Ask Peter,he has some pics.diz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Will do, Dizz. W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JT Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Up into the 30's some cars were still using npt or sae threaded plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlnut50 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 It's because we are going to the metric system one inch at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Changing?, Not me! My adjustable wrench and vice grips fit "everything". And, if it's possible those don't work, I guarantee my torch will get it off! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Up into the 30's some cars were still using npt or sae threaded plugs. </div></div>There's a mid-30s Pontiac or Chevy locally that was [poorly] restored by a retired plumber. He has apparently converted <span style="font-style: italic">all</span> the threads on the <span style="font-style: italic">whole car</span> to NPT. The exhaust system is even made of 3" galvanized pipe. It's like a crime against nature looking at this car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Dear Wayne,There is a guy back home that operates like you.His VERSION of a lock nut is cross threadin a coarse nut and fine threaded bolt or of course visa versa or versa visa.diz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guffin Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 All the world, except USA, is using the metric system. Even England nowadays. I have to have dual tool sets because my old cars are American but my daily driver (Colt 1982)is Japanese. Only one shop in the Stockholm are carry UNC and UNF bolts and they are very expensive, about ten times metric bolts. I try to keep the original standard on the bolts on my old cars.For me, Farenheit is a mess. Celsius is more related to daily life. Water boils at 100 degrees. Half of that, 50, is more than you can stand for a long period of time.Half of that, 25 Celsius, is a nice summer day (in Sweden). At 0 the ground starts to be frozen. Below zero it is really winter and the snow will not melt away.Below is a link to a site for easy conversions. It is in swedish but not so difficult to understand how to use:http://hemsidor.torget.se/users/b/bohjohan/convert/conv_s.htmThere are two pages. Page2 = Sidan2I lke qubic inches. Cubic centimeter are so small JanJan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Wayne, I also gave Peter a full CD of pictures from (Carlisle, Metropolis 2003, Hershey 2003, Hagerstown, Buffalo AGNM, and Hershey 2004) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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