"Worst Cars" list

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

I was thinking today about the worst modern (post-WWII) cars - ill-conceived, poorly engineered, shabbily made, mechanically suspect, blatantly unsafe, or any combination of such issues that tend to render the automobile in question a monstrosity more or less disposable to their unfortunate owners, whether this be either by necessity or choice. Actually, this last factor is key - that the car in question remains undesirable today, & has few defenders or enthusiasts (which is why cars like the Chevrolet Corvair, the AMC Pacer, & the Porsche 914 did not get put on the list - each, despite the quirkiness of their appeal, sold well when new & have solid collector organizations preserving them today). I came up with a list in this regard of my personal Top (Bottom?) Ten, ranked by the very worst first:

1. Trabant

2. Yugo

3. Chevrolet Vega

4. Triumph TR7

5. Renault LeCar

6. Austin America

7. Maserati Biturbo

8. Ford Pinto

9. Cadillac Cimarron

10. Fiat Strada

Dishonorable Mentions:

Renault Dauphine, Chevrolet Chevette, Lincoln Versailles, Oldsmobile diesels, Subaru 360

Apologies in advance for any feathers ruffled!

[Guest Randy Berger]

I drove a Chevette for four years, pounded it unmercifully and gave it to my daughter who drove it for a couple of years and traded it in. Maybe I'm just lucky It is hard to argue with your other selections, especially the Yugo.

I will nominate Chrysler's K-cars (and I always thought cr_p was spelled with a C).

YFAM, Randy Berger

[48LCCOUPE]

They are sought after and pull a hefty price and have collectors BUT, ever think of being in a front collision with a BMW Izetta? How about in a ditch with water in it?

No Fiats on your list?? Oh you meant real cars!

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

No Fiats on your list?? Oh you meant real cars!

**********************************************

Look again, the Fiat Strada ekes out a spot at #10.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

I will nominate Chrysler's K-cars...

**************************************

I'd defend the K-cars. As a pioneering front wheel drive platform, it saved Chrysler's ass, especially when it proved flexible enough to serve as the basis for the minivan, among other profitable models. Were they great? That'd be a hard case to make. But they were, by 1980's standards, more than good enough in the market segment in which they competed. They had no glaring durability or safety issues, and their quality, while wanting by today's standards, was certainly a great leap forward from the likes of the Aspen/Volare.

Certain aspects of the K-car actually reflect excellent engineering. The 2.2 liter engine is a very easily manufactured design, & yet is capable of being reliably tweaked to upwards of 300 hp fairly easily (the street tuner crowd is well aware of this).

[Guest greg72monte]

Those that preceded the K-Cars, the Dodge Aspen and

Plymouth Volare were known to rust through as you drove

it home from the dealer........or so it seems.

Holes in many body panels by 2 years old.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

Re: Aspen/Volare

My mother had a 1976 Volare for some years. Rust was not an issue as she lived in Southern California. She liked the V-8 power, & mechanically it was very reliable. But the paint, fit, finish, & interior materials were all mediocre at best, & handling & braking were strictly 1950's stuff. Two things I remember especially about that car that reflected how backwards in some respects it was - the inside mirror did not have a lever to dim it for night driving, & the rear window defroster consisted of a louver on the rear deck through which a fan blew heated air.

A local used car dealer recently had an Aspen on the lot, loaded & in quite nice condition. I sat in it for the memories, looked around, & couldn't help thinking how little we automotive consumers used to be satisfied with.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those that preceded the K-Cars, the Dodge Aspen and

Plymouth Volare were known to rust through as you drove

it home from the dealer........or so it seems.

Holes in many body panels by 2 years old. </div></div>

At the time in PA no exterior panels could be perforated (by rust or otherwise) or the car would fail state safety inspection. My Dad's '76 Aspen ([color:\\"red\\"]which I told him to buy! ) had rust perforations in both front fenders and the hood when it was 9 months old. Chrysler gave us a free front clip, naturally, but this was before the rust recall on those cars so we had to install it and have it painted ourselves.

Did you ever make payments on a car 3 1/2 years after it had an Earl Scheib paint job?

Actually there was a guy in our neighborhood who junked a '72 Nova due to frame rot with 6 months left in his payment book!

I drove 3 K-cars and a Chevette for the State of PA in the 1980's. Had to put a head gasket in all three K-cars before 48K miles (one at 32K miles).

The Chevette was much worse, but it couldn't be killed. The last time my supervisor gave it to me he said <span style="font-style: italic">"Don't bring it back!"</span>. I laughed, he didn't. He was serious. That day I (truly) accidentally drove itinto a dry drainage ditch hard at about 25 mph. The impact stalled the motor. Fired right back up. That week the same car needed is bi-monthly wiper switch as usual, though! And the imact didn't get us back the heater or radio either.

Those cars were great compared to the 4 cylinder Fairmont that they gave me. That one I did kill. The motor burnt itself up trying to run in the PA mountains with an open exhaust for 6 weeks. It'd burnt out an exhaust by-pass pipe and Ford didn't have any in the entire company's stocks. (It seems nobody was buying 4 cylinder Fairmonts by 1982!) I was waiting for a new manufacture run of this 5 year old part when the car finally blew.

Something tells me we're not entering the golden era of 25 year old newly antique cars!

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

Re: K-car head gaskets

Definitely a problem, especially with the early cars. Almost a maintenance item. Solution nowadays is a Mopar Hi-Perf version, which will hold up.

[Guest]

My daughter had an '87 Plymouth Duster which she referred to as a Plymouth Ruster. She picked it as her college graduation present. She has subsequebtly gone on to wiser choices.

hvs

[R W Burgess]

Believe it or not guys, I never had a bad car. I had a couple that were abused to the point of being bad. The first was a '69 VW. My first wife couldn't figure out why the oil light kept blinking. It had a leaking valve cover gasket or something. I was too busy in those(?) days to worry about it. The car finally burnt a valve and we kept driving it till it burned a hole through the aluminum head. I had 2 Vegas. One got traded early(2 years) without problems. The other had a on again off again miss, so I traded it before I had more problems. And, A Chevy 305 motor which lost it's camshaft at about 60,000 miles. No excuse in my mind. I've had good luck with everything else, mostly Chevy products. Wayne

[Guest]

Back when the OPEC oil embargo was on I traded in my 1969 Plymouth Fury with a 440 Magnum for a 6 month old '72 Vega. What a mistake. The Plymouth (440)if driven careful on the highway got 17MPG (Imperial gallon) and the Vega (140) only about 21. The air filter which was a non replaceable cartridge cost something like $12 in 1972! It didn't help that my dad borrowed it to tow his tent trailer and overheated the engine which incidently ran at about 300 degrees in the summer anyway . Then it began to burn oil as the cylinder coating scuffed off which was a real problem. Other than that one bad experience I can't say I've ever owned a bad vehicle. Even my little Hyundai Pony a notorious lemon not sold in the US was a pretty good car IMHO.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Stephen..."phew!!"...

I missed it by one digit: '72 TR-6...(still a death trap but fun to drive.)

Peter J.

P.S.--A book on Triumphs, of which, I cannot recall immediately, titled each chapter by the Triumph marque. When it came to the TR-7, the author's first advise was to go get an electrical engineering degree before restoring one, then, proceed to Step 2. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

Re: Triumph TR7

I think there's a world of difference between a TR6 & a TR7 (also known as the "flying doorstop" for its controversial, non-traditional styling).

In the <span style="font-style: italic">Ilustrated Triumph Buyer's Guide</span> by Richard Newton, he remarks that the TR7 "almost murdered the marque" & goes on to note that, "There is absolutely no chance that the TR7 will ever be a prized collector car, for it lacks all those traits that make certain cars good investments for the future." Mr. Newton also characterizes the TR7 as "not simple, not reliable, and anything but durable." All this coming from a Triumph booster!

The electrical system was in fact a problem, as were warping cylinder heads, the gearbox synchros, and the headlight doors.

Compounding everything was the dreadful assembly quality of many TR7's.

I have known some TR7 owners, & they all were constantly repairing them.

I almost also listed the Triumph Stag on account of its myriad engine woes (comparable in severity to, or maybe even worse than, those of the Maserati Biturbo), but it seemed to be needlessly heartless to pick twice on a poor little old Triumph (besides which, the Stag's engine was sourced from Rover).

[K8096]

Back in '75 my dad had a '73 Pontiac Grand Prix coupe that developed large rust holes right in the top front of the hood. The dealer ended up selling dad a new hood wholesale & he painted and installed it himself.

[Guest Skyking]

My worst car was a 1977 Matador Barcerlona coupe. I bought the car in 78. My wife named it the AMC weekender. It seemed I used to work on it every weekend. That was the most undependable car I ever owned. As far as rusty cars I surprised no one has mentioned Toyota trucks. They all rotted a week later. Must have been all those recycled tin cans....

[Dynaflash8]

1971 Ford 400 cid station wagon I bought new. My first new car in fact, but many cars down the line after 1955.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

Re: Matadors & rusty Japanese trucks

I had a 1976 Matador coupe that except for a very sporadic engine cutout problem (which was fixed for good via a recall) gave me zero problems for over 70K miles. One of the best cars I ever owned, reliability-wise.

I had a 1982 Mazda B2000 pick-up that rusted through in several places - in Southern California, no less.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

You bet, Stephen...

The TR-7, for all intents and purposes, was the demise of Triumph. They were in such a rush to comptete with the likes of the Datsun 240-Z, and, the wedge shaped, aerodynamic style, that, it caught the old guard without a clue.

That is why I stated "phew!!..." Had my eye on the TR-6 in its first year, 1969, and swore I would get one after my discharge from the Army. Bought it, still have it...

By the way, good thread you started.

Regards, Peter J... <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Mike Dube]

My folks bought a 1960 Valiant wagon new, the front fenders began rusting thru before the thing was a year old. My personal worst car was a '66 Beetle (my '63 was one of the best). Ask anybody who knows Bugs, and they'll tell you to avoid 1966 VW products.

Mike

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...it seemed to be needlessly heartless to pick twice on a poor little old Triumph (besides which, the Stag's engine was sourced from Rover). </div></div>

Stephen, this is a common misconception. The 3.5L Triumph V8 actually had nothing to do with the Rover V8. The Triumph engine was developed in the late 1960's just before and during the big British Leyland merger. It was a miserable beast, and without a doubt Triumph lost a fortune in warrantee claims on the motor.

That it wasn't axed immediately upon the merger is a true wonder. The Rover 3.5 was a wonderful engine originally designed by Buick for the Special/Skylark line in the early '60s. Had the Stag come out with that motor it might have had a fighting chance.

As for the TR7, people forget today that it was faster and could out handle every TR before it (including my TR6), despite the smaller motor and a return to live axle suspension. It was submarined by a miserable labor relationship within the company which resulted in aggressively deficient assembly quality (probably better described as sabotage!). The TR8 that followed was a much better built car, and near equal to the Corvette in many respects. By then, however, the exchange rates had made British cars prohibitively expensive here and the TR's had to go. And without the American market, there was no British sports car industry any more.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

Re: Triumph Stag

Yes, you are absolutely correct - that V-8 was not the same as Rover's. I just had it in my head for some reason that it was the same as the Rover unit. My error. Does bring up the question (probably better pursued away from this thread so as not to get too far afield), what V-8 could be readily transplanted into a Stag to make it viable? It's such a classy car otherwise.

Speaking of troublesome British powerplants, I suppose there must be a Jaguar model or two that could make the "Dishonorable Mention" list at least. There's a reason why so many XJ saloons on the road today have Chevy V-8's under the bonnet.

[juddman]

OK, the Fiats were ugly, biodegradeable, and the trim was flimsy, I'll give you that, but the Lampredi SOHC 1500 engine was a tough little beastie, especially when fitted with Bosch L-Jet FI. It would rev forever and I've not met too many folks that could kill one if they changed their oil & T-belt like they should. And heck, it's not an interference engine anyway. The transmissions could have been built stonger, but were reliable as long as you didn't abuse them, and the electricals worked as long as you kept your grounds clean, which admittedly wasn't easy, given the Russian steel in the thing. They handled well for their time, and the brakes were decent, if not stellar.

K-cars and their ilk could be hot-rodded like mad, too...I had a grey Plymouth Horizon that would take a 5L Mustang under most circumstances - even in a straight line, but my favorite prey at the time were Porsche 944's. Turbo 2.2's were tough, if not civilized. Mine was running just over 200 bhp in a 2200 lb sleeper.

Yugos can be made to work well, too with Fiat speed bits (Dual webers on a Fiat 1500 with 1 40/80cam and some carefully selected X1/9 and 128 suspension bits and you'd have quite a startling sleeper. I know some folks in VT that autocross a Yugo regularly and win.

My list of icky cars might inculde the Chevy Cavalier, the Eagle Premiere, Dodge Dynasty, early Hyundais, Renault Dauphine, and Datsun B210.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

A bit more re: Triumph TR7

It just so happened that this morning I came across an account of British Leyland affairs in this period in which the author, Chris Harvey, claims that the TR7 also killed off the M.G. marque. The story he relates is that British Leyland poured all its development money at the time into the TR7 project at the expense of designing a successor to the MGB that would have been more adaptable to U.S. safety standards. Furthermore, British Leyland then pulled the MGB-GT off the U.S. market so that the TR7 (a closed car in the beginning) would not have to compete with it for sales here. The subsequent failure of the TR7 constricted British Leyland's cash flow, & with no new & diversified product, the M.G. operation then became the obvious place where the budget cutting ax had to fall. Mr. Harvey also notes that this was particularly unfortunate from a human standpoint since the M.G. workforce had demonstrated none of the militancy that had so adversely affected the quality of the TR7.

[ex98thdrill]

....and to think that most of those cars are now AACA eligible, or will be so within the next five years. I'd say that you've got a pretty good list, and wouldn't argue with any of your choices. But on the topic of rust, back in the 70's almost everything was built with recycled metal, and if you lived in the north and drove it for more than three years, you had a bucket of rust within five years. When you take that into consideration along with all of the pollution requirements enacted that basically choked a large majority of the engines off to the point where they didn't want to run that well.

One thing that no one has taken a shot at was International Harvester. To this day, you don't see too many 70's vintage International pickups or Scouts. In New York, you saw very few International pickups beyond five years old because the boxes rotted off of them and most of them then became International flatbeds . I know Jeeps weren't much better back then either. In 1982, my father had a 1977 Jeep J-10 pickup that had rusted so bad that you could see the wires going back from the cab to the tail lights.

As much as I hate to say this, the Japanese put a hurting on the "Big Three" back in the late 70's and early 80's, but on the same token, they forced the "Big Three" to improve the quality that was starting to disappear at that time. Had that not happened, we'd have a lot more junk on the road today.

[Dave@Moon]

Stephen,

Chris Harvey I think first made that point in his book <span style="font-style: italic">TR for Triumph</span>, and everyone else has pretty much chimed in since. Graham Robson (<span style="font-style: italic">The Triumph TR's, The Works Triumphs, Triumph TR's, A Complete History, The Story of Triumph Sports Cars, Triumph Cars (From Tri-Car to Acclaim</span>) has written extensively on the same subject as well. It's rather a sore point among us LBC (Little British Car) fans! BL management was very "Triumph heavy" at it's formation, and that colored their decisions greatly.

One of the more humorous items discovered was that the TR7 was designed based on a sketch that a board member made of a potential next product. That sketch was followed faithfully, including the Buick-like S-curve embossed into the side of the car. The board member later admitted he was just drawing a cartoon of what was wanted, and didn't want nor like the now controversial S-curve!

It is forgotten today that Triumph outsold <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> out performed MG every year of their coexistence, so that coloring isn't entirely unforgivable. (A stock Pinto would out accelerate, top end, and out handle an MGB by the mid-1970's!) Never the less it's obvious that there should've been more thought put into BL's product decisions of the 1970's. The labor problem was obviously a serious miscalculation on <span style="font-style: italic">BOTH</span> sides, and makes a great counterpoint to the Toyota system of labor relations.

It was a sad squandering of an automotive legacy.

[Pierce66]

how 'bout anything and I mean ANYTHING with a Lucas electrical system ?

[Guest imported_jmarsicano]

My sister has a TR-7 in her garage, she let me drive it once. I am just over 6 feet tall and could barely fit into the little car. While trying to drive the car through the streets of Long Island, I was almost in an accident due to the closeness of the break/clutch pedals. My feet were too big and I couldn't hit the break! I promply pulled the car over and made her drive for the rest of the trip.

[Old Crabby]

I am surprised that no one has added the early '80's Caddies equipped with the underpowered and hastily conceived 4100 engine, they would flatten a cam, shred a timing chain and warp a head at the slightest provocation.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to trash the auto industry of the U.K.

Reviewing my list, it does seem fairly evenhanded in its international composition, which was not something I did consciously. The Koreans were spared, although now that I think about it, I might have listed the abominable Pontiac "LeMans" that was imported some years back. The Japanese suffered only from the Dishonorable Mention of the Subaru 360, which mostly was just plain unsuited to driving conditions in this country (don't know what Malcom Bricklin was thinking in bringing it over here). The West Germans got a pass, too, although they have had a few clunkers - the NSU Ro80 comes to mind on account of its durability problems, but one might tend to forgive that given the company's taking a chance by being at the leading edge of Wankel technology.

[1926]

Post deleted by Peter J Heizmann

[Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL)]

My Mom and Dad had an '86 New Yorker, a real POJ. Thank Goodness for the extended warranty, although it seemed like every time something went wrong it was one of those "The warranty doen't cover this particular thing." The paint peeled off. It was plagued with engine trouble. The LED intstrument panel went out. Before the parts could come in, it ran hot, but Daddy didn't know it. Warped the head. Can't say they were all that bad, but this one was certainly a lemon. Didn't learn their lesson, though. Traded it in on Voyager. It wasn't much better. Couple that with the POJ Dodge Avenger my son owns...... Think I'll stay away from those Chrysler products.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am surprised that no one has added the early '80's Caddies equipped with the underpowered and hastily conceived 4100 engine, they would flatten a cam, shred a timing chain and warp a head at the slightest provocation. </div></div>

Not to mention the 8-6-4 engine management debacle.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how 'bout anything and I mean ANYTHING with a Lucas electrical system ? </div></div>

My Metropolitan has Lucas electrical in it. Your right, very finicky. As long as you keep all the grounds clean, they perform pretty good.

[Guest imported_klb]

Geeze, I really like some of the cars mentioned in this thread.

But on another note....

For the sake of automotive history maybe collectors ought to be making a real effort to obtain and preserve these unlikely objects of ones automotive affections.

Especially the ones that had a hard time making it off the showroom floor if they happened to be lucky enough to be sold, like the 72 Datsun pickup I bought new.

Yikes, that thing didn't make it 50 miles before I needed a tow truck to get it back to the dealership. Maybe I just got a lemon. I traded it in on a new Ford less than two month later.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

For the sake of automotive history maybe collectors ought to be making a real effort to obtain and preserve these unlikely objects of ones automotive affections.</div></div>

You raise a really good point. For all that were sold, how many Vegas have escaped the salvage yard? Aside from the Cosworth model, a very small percentage, I'm sure. For that matter, despite their vaunted durability, how many 60's & 70's vintage Japanese cars are still on the road? Remember the sharp little Toyota Corona hardtop circa 1969? Or the very cute Datsun 1200 coupe from around 1972? Both sold very well, especially out here in California, but I can't recall having seen a surviving example of either in years.

[Guest Stephen Lyons]

I wanted to throw out one more question. Are there any vehicles being made today that may qualify for a future "worst" list? I realize that few (if any) cars presently manufactured have the overwhelming mechanical or workmanship problems that plagued some selections from 20 or 30 years ago, but under the "ill-conceived" criterion, there might be some candidates, based on unorthodox styling & design (a difficult thing to predict, whether this will later endear or alienate). How about the Pontiac Aztek? Future treasured collectible or discarded trash? The cartoonish Toyota Echo? The Honda Element?

[Guest greg72monte]

Oh you must mean the Honda "Uglement"....

and to think some people said the Aztek is ugly. (Yes it is)

In fact when you look up "ugly" in the Websters dictionary,

a picture of the "Uglement" is there.

It looks like they forgot to finish painting it...

among other things!

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ....but under the "ill-conceived" criterion, there might be some candidates, based on unorthodox styling & design (a difficult thing to predict, whether this will later endear or alienate).</div></div>

Anything, and I mean <span style="font-style: italic">anything</span>, with "Hummer" embossed into it. No doubt.

[Old Crabby]

I forget exactly who it was.Willie Willock or Austie Clark who told me, "If there are few examples of a particular car left there is probably a very good reason for their disappearance".

A statement I wholeheartedly endorse...........