GAS PRICES ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

[Guest BillEBuick]

> > Subject: Gas Prices

> >

> > IT HAS BEEN CALCULATED THAT IF EVERYONE IN THE UNITED STATES DID NOT

> > PURCHASE A DROP OF GASOLINE FOR ONE DAY AND ALL AT THE SAME TIME,

THE

OIL

> > COMPANIES WOULD CHOKE ON THEIR STOCKPILES. AT THE SAME TIME IT WOULD

HIT

> > THE

> > ENTIRE INDUSTRY WITH A NET LOSS OF OVER 4.6 BILLION DOLLARS WHICH

AFFECTS

> > THE BOTTOM LINES OF THE OIL COMPANIES.

> >

> > THEREFORE MAY 19TH HAS BEEN FORMALLY DECLARED A BOYCOTT

> > DAY AND THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION SHOULD NOT BUY A SINGLE DROP OF

> > GASOLINE

> > THAT DAY.

> >

> > THE ONLY WAY THIS CAN BE DONE IS IF YOU FORWARD THIS E-MAIL TO AS

MANY

> > PEOPLE AS YOU CAN AND AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN TO GET THE WORD OUT.

> >

> >

> > WAITING ON THIS ADMINISTRATION TO STEP IN AND CONTROL THE PRICES IS

> > NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REDUCTION AND CONTROL IN

> > PRICES THAT THE ARAB NATIONS PROMISED TWO WEEKS AGO?

> >

> > REMEMBER ONE THING, NOT ONLY IS THE PRICE OF GASOLINE GOING UP BUT

AT

> > THE SAME TIME AIRLINES ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES, TRUCKING

> > COMPANIES

> > ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES WHICH EFFECTS PRICES ON EVERYTHING

THAT

> > IS

> > SHIPPED. THINGS LIKE FOOD, CLOTHING, BUILDING MATERIALS, MEDICAL

> > SUPPLIES

> > ETC. WHO PAYS IN THE END? WE DO!

> >

> > WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IF THEY DON'T GET THE MESSAGE AFTER ONE

DAY,

> >

> > WE WILL DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.

> >

> > SO DO YOUR PART AND SPREAD THE WORD. FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO EVERYONE

YOU

> > KNOW. MARK YOUR CALENDARS AND MAKE MAY 19TH A DAY THAT THE CITIZENS

OF

> > THE

> > UNITED STATES SAY "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"

[Guest Shaffer]

Yes, I have heard many say that they are not going to buy gasoline on May 19.

[Guest imported_DaveZZZ]

This goes around every few months.

If you drive the same number of miles, all you'll do is create a no-demand day followed by a couple of high-demand days. The only way we can really impact gas prices is by actually using less over a long term.

Unfortunately, there are only three things that significantly impact oil prices:

1. Consumption rate (here we, the consumers, are responsible. We COULD do more but choose not)

2. Refinery capacity (here the oil companies are responsible. They intentionally keep refinery capacity tight by not building more, etc. And don't believe them when they say the environmentalists won't let them build more- Shell is closing a big one in CA. Much like the CA power plant "shortage" ask not when was the last time one was built [20+ years], but rather when was the last time a company applied to build a new one)

3. Supply (OPEC, of course. Here again, don't believe the hype. The capacity of undeveloped US holdings, such as ANWAR, can not even beging to cover our needs. This means that if we can crank out an extra 100,000 domestic barrels a day, OPEC can just cut back by a like amount. My opinion is that we should be using political pressure to break OPEC. They have an oil cartel that has us over a barrel, but how many autos, refrigerators, TVs, etc. are produced in the Middle East? Why don't we get with the other industrial powers and form a few cartels of our own?)

-Dave

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I have heard many say that they are not going to buy gasoline on May 19. </div></div>

This is idiotic, as stated above. I posted my thoughts on this in the R&R forum thread no USE gas day. I'll attach them below.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see from a thread in the BCA Reatta section (no buy gas day) that the brainless concept of not buying gas on a certain day has reared it's fugly head once again. It seems every time the price of gas goes up, or another American is harmed by a group of even more misguided Islamic extremists, this rubbish gets recirculated. It's foolhardy.

The current scheme is to not buy gas on 5/19/04, like that'll show anybody anything. Basically all it does is make it easier for fuel retailers to know that they'll have a slight rush on sales on 5/20 so they can staff accordingly. Junkies can't hurt their dealers by delayed buying in bulk.

If you really want to hurt the oil companies/al quaeda/Haliburton/leftist loonies/Republicans/the 1927 New York Yankees/and whomever else you want to blame for our dependence on oil imports, try this one. Pick a day [color:\\"red\\"] (just one!) and don't <span style="font-weight: bold">USE</span> gas, <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">[color:\\"green\\"]but still accomplish the same tasks!</span></span> Hitch/give rides with friends, take (God forbid!) a bus, walk/bike to work, borrow a reel-type lawnmower, row out to your favorite fishing spot, ride a friend to Dunkirk who'd otherwise drive themselves, etc. If all you do is put off trips until the next day then all you're doing is deferring the bad guys' compensation 24 hours.

If it's more practical to accomplish the tasks and use <span style="font-style: italic">less</span> gas instead of none (combine trips, use more fuel efficient second car, or walking lawn mower, set fire to neighbor's SUV ), that will help as well. But some of us can cut it out entirely for certain items, and we should. Not using the stuff, and thereby reducing demand, <span style="font-weight: bold">will</span> have many positive effects. You don't have to make absurd leaps of judgement to guess that it might.

$3/gallon gas (roughly the same price after inflation as gas cost when the Chevette was America's #1 selling car) has already begun to appear in parts of the country. We can do something about it, <span style="font-style: italic">but not without <span style="font-weight: bold">thinking</span>!</span> </div></div>

[Matt Harwood]

Ugh! This is the same crapola that has been circulating the 'Net for years. You won't show the oil companies anything--we are a 100% captive market. One day of lost profits won't scare them because we still have 400,000,000+ cars on the road that need fuel. Besides, if you don't buy it that day, you will the next. They won't mind a bit if we all take a day off because they'll make twice as much the next day. The only guy you might be hurting is the independent gas station owner who makes $0.02-0.04 per gallon, but that day off will give him a chance to raise his prices to make up for the lost day. Nice work, crusaders.

And who the heck "calculated" that the gas companies would choke on their oversupply? If there was an oversupply that could "choke" the industry in one day, prices would be a lot lower than they are (think about it). One day's worth of gas is insignificant compared to the vast quantities stored in gas stations around the country. Do people really believe that oil companies will make so much gas that it starts bubbling out of the tanks like a bathtub that's been allowed to overflow? Duh.

Why do we feel like cheap gas is some kind of inalienable American right? Supply vs. demand is the capitalist way, the only thing Americans seem to really believe in these days. Demand is up right now, supplies are questionable, prices go up. That's how it has always worked--there is no conspiracy to make prices higher to punish soccer moms and middle-aged men with image problems. If you don't like it, get a smaller car or change your driving habits. But don't whine and complain about how expensive it is while driving your 8000-pound Hummers and Cadillac Escalades and Lincoln Navigators to the grocery store and nursery school.

On a bigger scale, our gas is still less than half the price of gas in Europe--civilization hasn't collapsed there because nobody can drive giant trucks to Pilates class. If Americans started using less gas, the price would come down (once again, supply vs. demand in action). Trying to punish the oil companies because you think gas should be less expensive is the sign of a simple, selfish, narrow mind. All this will prove is that Americans are unwilling to change their long-term habits to achieve cheaper fuel prices or reduced dependence on the Middle East, but they are willing to make some pathetic "token" effort that only takes a day and doesn't force them to make any meaningful changes in their lives. Where's the inconvenience in delaying gas purchases a day? What are you giving up to make this "sacrifice" actually send a message? Nothing. In fact, it may actually make us look even dumber and more glutinous to the rest of the world, if that's even possible.

Forward this to as many people as you can to show them how stupid they are to think that such a thing would have any impact on anything, and stop feeding the gullible Internet myth noobs.

[HurstGN]

Yes, our club e-mail inbox got "spammed" by this garbage this week as well. I feel sorry for any moron that believes this will work. A statement was made

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One day of lost profits won't scare them because we still have 400,000,000+ cars on the road that need fuel. </div></div> If the entire world didn't buy gas on one day, the "them" being referred to, the big oil companies, would show no lost profits. Remember, the local dealer buys the gas. The oil companies sold the gas (profit made), and the dealer will buy the next tanker that arrives (profit made). So the big oil companies will NEVER see any impact, no matter how many people don't buy gas on a certain day.

Want a real life example...try this on for size:

When premium was at $1.89 (and higher) at all the local gas stations, I stumbled across a Sunoco selling premium at $1.78. Regular and mid-grade were also proportionally lower. Running low, I filled the tank in a heartbeat. I asked the owner of the station if the low prices were a regular occurance at his station. His reply was that Sunoco has minimums that they want sold, and incentives for selling more than the minimums. So, for the dealer to get the better incentives, the dealer must sell x number of gallons before the next truck arrived. The incentive was alluded to be a lower cost per gallon to the dealer. The owner said if his numbers are low near the end of the month, and he needs sales, he'll drop the price, sometimes even take a slight loss, just to be able to buy the next round at a lower incentive price. So the dealers numbers are over an entire month. One day...bah. That does nothing!

I think it's a shame we can't educate the motoring public on simple things like this, and avoid this recurring spam when prices go thru the roof. Why don't you question the raising of prices on a daily basis, even though the gas was purchased on a less than daily basis. How can the dealer justify raising prices on a day when he didn't buy gas, but the news reported the price is going up? Yet when it comes to lowering prices, "there's 6 months supply in the pipelines to be used up before prices will fall". Get a freaking clue and question these practices...this is where we're being gouged.

And for all those that said we went to war for oil....well, we must have lost the war. Cause it sure don't look like a win at my gas pumps. Oh yea, that 155mm artillery round with sarin nerve agent wasn't meant for us, so lets not worry about it. It was only declared to have been destroyed prior to 1991. Hrmm, our boys must be time travelling over there. I wonder how much gas it takes to time travel back before 1991.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If Americans started using less gas, the price would come down (once again, supply vs. demand in action). </div></div>

I would say this to be the opposite, the oil companys will never lose money. They will just charge more........

[Guest John Chapman]

For all the bitchin' about gas prices, how about some history:

The ongoing moaning about gas prices got me to looking some things up. Check out this effort, and you'll see that adjusted for inflation, current gas (high test) prices are equal to 1979 prices:

http://www.ghg.net/stuart/gasprice/gasprice.html

Here's another study that converts 1949-2004 gas (regular/unleaded regular) prices to 1996 dollars, and again, note that current gas prices are about the same, in real terms as they were in 1949. Translated back, 1949 price was about 1.90/gl in 2004 dollars... and that was for a significantly inferior product.

http://www.nationalreview.com/moore/moore082803chart.asp

Reminds me of my mother in law, who gets appoplectic over coffee that costs 1.75 at Denny's, and launches one of her many tirades about how coffee used to be 25 cents a cup...

Well yeah, Mom, back when the minimum wage was 75 cents in 1950 (http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/chart.htm)... and your beach house cost $12,500 brand new... can't even get a bathroom remodeled for that now...

[GSTURBO]

I was just downtown watching traffic and I counted 8 trucks or suv,s for each car.Trucks use much more fuel than cars & have different milage standards.This means much more oil out of the earth and higher prices.Nobody wants to give up their big,big trucks though.Today I saw my first very long Hummer limo.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If Americans started using less gas, the price would come down (once again, supply vs. demand in action). </div></div>

I would say this to be the opposite, the oil companys will never lose money. They will just charge more........ </div></div>

That is very, very unlikely, even with their current absolute hold on the Federal government. If you can't move a product, raising your price is suicide. Prices go down with lower demand--period, just ask your local cd store (that's what record stores are now called) while it still exists.

The simple fact is that lowering consumption in <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> way possible will have the effect of both lowering the price and sticking it to our nation's enemies. Every dime on the BP or Conoco card is killing us.

There are many things that'll help save fuel beyond the obvious driving/maintenance issues. The first thing we all should do is take those stupid flags off our cars. Every one of them is costing it's owner (and thereby aiding al quaeda) by 1 mpg on the highway. Another good thing to ditch is your roof rack. The very best lowest air resistence rack costs about 1/2 mpg at 70 mph. I pulled the silly pipe organ rack off the roof of my Nissan Frontier and gained 2 mpg in addition to the mileage I gaind by switching to a low restriction <span style="font-style: italic">K&N</span> air cleaner.

Driving an appropriate vehicle for our needs is the best thing we can all do. Over the weekend I heard a report on NBC that SUV sales dropped 20% in one month, and Hummer sales dropped 30%. Now what was that about lowered demand lowering prices (a.k.a. resale values)????

[radionut98]

Guess I'll throw my two cents worth in, A lot of you touched on the subject

of lowering usage, this can be accomplished several ways, 1. cover your pick

up box increases gas milage 10 to 20 percent. Even if you can not afford a

fancy one make one out of plywood etc..2. Lower your speed, most of us drive

70 mph or faster, if we all drive 55 to 60 gas consuption lowers by 20 percent.

3. Turn off that air conditioner!!! increases gas milage .5 to 1 per cent.

I never saw a day yet that I needed air conditioner, 55 with all windows open

works just as well. Like some of you said walk to nearest convenience store

to get the paper instead of driving. There are many ways to save gas and I

won't take up space here doing it as most of us know in our head what to do.

My 1937 chevrolet got 20 mpg how come my 2000 GMC P.U. gets 18? One reason

as I stated before my 37 only went 50 to 55 my GMC goes 70 to 80. Nuff said.

Loren

[Guest imported_DaveZZZ]

Supply and demand does not hold when a cartel controls the supply.

They have the ability to drop the supply at any time.

-Dave

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Hummer sales dropped 30%. </div></div>

Actually, Hummer (and other large truck sales) is in a lot of trouble right now--they have a 120+ day supply of trucks sitting on dealer lots today, and can't move them. There's no relief in sight until the Hummer H3 arrives in a year or so based on the new Colorado platform. In addition, GM is asking their Hummer dealers to invest heavily in an expensive, specific and separate store to sell the brand. If gas prices continue like this, the domestic auto industry is going to be in very deep doo-doo, since big luxury trucks are about the only place they make money. Of course they planned for this by developing new, more efficient vehicles that would appeal to former SUV owners, right? They knew this SUV gravy train couldn't go on forever, right? No? Uh-oh...

Well, I guess they can always offer $15,000 rebates and 0% financing to at least keep them from stacking up like cordwood.

Here's something I wrote last July that suddenly seems very prophetic: What The Heck Are They Thinking At GM?

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 3. Turn off that air conditioner!!! increases gas milage .5 to 1 per cent.

I never saw a day yet that I needed air conditioner, 55 with all windows open

works just as well. </div></div>

That's dicey at best. With a reasonably aerodynamic vehicle (any conventional car), highway milage is actually better with the windows up and the air on. The drag from the compressor isn't nearly as bad as the wind resistence. However with a large truck or other vehicle that catches a lot of air already, cutting out the a/c is likely better. Also in city driving it's almost always better w/o a/c.

Also using your cruise control will gain milage under any safe circumstances. When I was in grad school in Iowa, during the period of the most expensive fuel in history (in real terms), every state vehicle down to vinyl seated/rubber floored economy/utility trucks had a/c and cruise control. It saved the state money!

We do need to fix this. The OPEC cartel doesn't control the supply as well as we <span style="font-style: italic">can</span> control demand. There is an often quoted fact (possibly true) that if we all got 2 more mpg we'd be able to curtail all middle east imports of oil to the U.S. Even if it's 5 mpg, or 10, working to lower demand will help immensely.

Besides, somebody's got to make up for the idiot woman at my daughter's school that sits in her Excursion with the V10 idling for 25 minutes <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">every damn day</span></span> reading her stupid romance novel while waiting for her kid to come out!

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If Americans started using less gas, the price would come down (once again, supply vs. demand in action). </div></div>

I would say this to be the opposite, the oil companys will never lose money. They will just charge more........ </div></div>

That is very, very unlikely, even with their current absolute hold on the Federal government. If you can't move a product, raising your price is suicide. Prices go down with lower demand--period,</div></div>

I still disagree! Homes are insulated better, with better & more efficient furnaces,using less fuel, did the price come down, no....we are still paying through the nose for oil & gas............THEY WON'T LOSE, WE WILL!

[NTX5467]

In the world of HUMMER, the big sales facilities are definitely part of the situation, in the long run, but it has also been noted that they expect the stand-alone stores to only sell about 12 H1s a year. That leaves the volume to the H2 models, plus the upcoming H3s.

Now, what smart dealers to is put another facility on the same real estate. Like an expanded wholesale parts operation, for example. That way, Hummer sales aren't the only thing paying for the facility. These dealers were pretty much hand-picked via many criteria. Undoubtedly, financial stability was one of them too. Most already have GM franchises near where their Hummer facility is.

The OTHER thing is that if you can afford the price of a Hummer, fuel economy is not a prime consideration. Even on the cross country deal that Motor Trend did, it barely averaged 12mpg. To me, I would have hoped for more like 15 on the highway, but with those big tires with those tall sidewalls and off-road style tread, plus "brick" aerodynamics, 12mpg is pretty respectible and is probably not that much less than what a 3/4 ton Chevy pickup would get under similar situations. In other words, if you can afford to buy the vehicle, you can afford the fuel too.

Similarly, if you can afford the payments on a $40K+ Suburban or $50K+ Escalade or similar Ford products, that usually indicates a pretty well-off lifestyle and a job to support such. Also, don't forget that when that 15mpg vehicle is carrying 3 people, that's like a small, single vehicle getting 45mpg with one person in it (basically the hybrids and such that everyone's all excited about). Those hybrids might have some larger EPA mileage numbers on the windowsticker, but those EPA tests are run with the a/c turned OFF. A/c use decreases those numbers significantly, from what I understand. Therefore, if you have one of those vehicles, only use it when you can take others with you--as a general rule--as that makes the people/miles/gallon much more inline with the smaller vehicles that only have one person in them. Again, if you can afford the vehicle and the lifestyle it purports, then there is enough affluence to pay the fuel bills too.

As for the blessed "boycott on ________" situation. As Matt noted, not everyone buys fuel every day. In that orientation, it would need to be a multi-day, continuous boycott to make any real impact. BUT the other side issue is just how the refineries would react. Of course, less demand meand they need less people to work and that would mean less production to maintain appropriate reserves of product. So they'd scale back production and then when everyone said "To heck with this" and started driving as they used to, then that would spike demand and we all know what happens when supply are decreased and demand increases--prices go up higher than they would normally be. Again, more "windfall profits" for the oil companies. SO, all of these boycott deals need to think about three steps further than what they already are instead of being quite to simplistic in their orientation and approach. They just might end up costing themselves more money!

And what about people away from home on leisure or business trips. Remember that more companies started wanting people to drive rather than fly after 9/11? Those people probably are buying more than one tank of fuel per day. If they decided to go along with the "No Fuel Day", then they'd have to spend an extra day in a hotel. What would be least expensive? Fuel cost or running up the expense account (if there is one!) another $80+ per trip? Those danged side issues strike again!

Sure, there are some things we all could do to save fuel expenses. One is being more with regards to planning how and where we drive, to make one trip do the same thing as several shorter trips. Of course, tire pressure is another maintenance item. Past that, most of everything we could do would be marginal. Not that all of those things together might not make a difference, but look at just how much actual fuel you'd save by getting 3 more mpg and being uncomfortable and if it's really worth it to you.

Right now, the main thing is watching the fuel prices on the various stations. What was less expensive one day might not be the next day. The pattern is to find a cheaper private brand outlet and then look for a name brand outlet near by. That usually gets the best pricing as the name brand will usually try to get close to the private brand pricing. But even that's no guarantee. About the only way to really save is to have a MasterCard (or similar) that has an automatic fuel savings built into it (like the earlier and current Shell MasterCards too, with a 3% rebate on fuel purchases). You can also get some hints from the various fuel cost websites (MSN has one on their front page, for example) for your area--some are more accurate than others.

So, best thing we can do is try to get through this whole deal and quit pointing fingers as to why it's happening. This is one issue where there are no simple answers to a complex chain of events that are running the price of fuel up (yet diesel is pretty much unchanged; look at those larger light truck vehicles and see how many of them are diesels!). Sure, we can change how we do things, but past history suggests that whatever we might save now will be made up for later as prices will probably rise to where we're paying the same as we would have been paying before we tried to conserve.

How many of y'all own stock, or have shares in a pension play with investment options, in the oil industry? Plus, if YOU were running the oil companies, how would YOU be doing things?

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Guest imported_NikeAjax]

It?s pretty obscene to watch some a-hole in their mega-bitchen-vehicle tooling down the road that is literally capable of towing a house with nothing for a payload except their way cool tattoos. Just as sick are the people who NEED to drive their kids in 4X4?s that cost as much as a house if not more because it makes them feel safer. Because people?s desires out-weigh their actual needs, it?s the idiot using up all the resources that complains first about having nothing!

It?s not the guy in the old Buick or Chrysler using all the gas, but the person who needs to show the world that he?s as cool if not cooler than most people:

Let then suffer, perhaps they?ll learn something for a few hours before they forget entirely how uncomfortable they were till the next neat thing comes along.

Just some food for thought,

Jaybird

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I still disagree! Homes are insulated better, with better & more efficient furnaces,using less fuel, did the price come down, no....we are still paying through the nose for oil & gas............THEY WON'T LOSE, WE WILL! </div></div>

Here are your demand reductions per household:

Home Heating Oil

Natural Gas

Here's what those "reductions" in demand did to overall consumption in natural gas:

No Such figure for heating oil was found, however it's likely very similar. I don't see a heck of a lot of reduced consumption. Fluctuations seen are mostly due to weather conditions. At the very best we're barely keeping even with the rate of urban sprawl by increasing our home heating efficiency. <span style="font-style: italic">Really</span> reducing energy consumption is so foreign to most of us that we cannot even conceive of it.

And oh..., by the way, petroleum use is at an all time high, and in fact average fuel mileage for the fleet of private vehicles in the U.S. is at a 24 year low right now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The OTHER thing is that if you can afford the price of a Hummer, fuel economy is not a prime consideration. </div></div>

I can afford to buy puppies and toss them off tall buildings. Does that make <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> the right thing to do too?

Now, if we're all done rationalizing <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> getting off our lazy butts to do anything to fix this, <span style="font-weight: bold">put down the romance novel and fix it!</span>

[Matt Harwood]

Oil exec #1: Have you seen this silly e-mail campaign to protest prices by boycotting us on Wednesday?

Oil exec #2: Yeah. So what?

Oil exec #1: Some people might actually go through with it. We both know it won't make a bit of difference, though. These people are deluded sheep.

Oil exec #2: Sure are. Hey, this gives me an idea. Let's really screw with them and raise prices another ten cents on Thursday.

Oil execs 1 and 2: (Hysterical giggling)

[HurstGN]

First off, yes Dave, you still have waaay too much time on your hands.

Matt, how did you get the secret conversation? I know it's real, because 3 stations near me that always follow each others price lead, and that price is usually 7-10 cents below the national average, these stations are now ABOVE the national average! Yup! Price gouging at it's best. But they increased more than the averages, and now they're some of the highest priced stations around. If it wasn't too far, I'd park it and walk to work!

[Guest imported_moopar2ya2]

For the average guy the price hike is likely insignificant on your annual expenses. We drive two poor fuel economy vehicles daily and the extra cost is likley about $20 per month. (The guys who use lots of fuel like taxi, truckers farmers etc that's a different story). When you add up all the other costs of driving and general living, gasoline is not even on the radar screen for most people.

Plan your trips and do more errands on one run, phone ahead to avoid wasting trips. Buy from your local merchants and don't run all over hell's half acre to say a few penny's.

[Guest John Chapman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...I can afford to buy puppies and toss them off tall buildings...</div></div>

Dave! I knew you had some redeeming qualities!

Just for the record, I <span style="font-style: italic">didn't</span> buy gas today... but, then, I usually buy gas on Friday on the way home.

In all this dialog, nobody has mentioned/factored in the dramatic increase in oil consumption by Asia, primarily China. This will tend to make world crude prices inelastic downward, regardless of minor cuts in US fuel consumption...

Just my thoughts.

JMC

[Guest Skyking]

Dave, I have to say you sure do your home work........Hey! I'm doing my part, more cruise nights with the Met....still have the gas I bought 2 weeks ago.

[Guest elk93001]

My $.02:

We are all guilty of fuel consumption whether we drive an SUV, a high horspower musclecar, or a rice rocket that chirps the tires at every stop light. Some burn more than others, but pointing the finger and saying it is one group versus another is like a person saying "I smoke crack once a month, but I'm not a user". If we drive our collector car in a parade, are we using any more or less gas or accomplishing anything more than the goofball running her Excursion while reading a romance novel in the parking lot of a school? The SUV and the collector car are not necessities, they are luxuries. If you really want to reduce demad for gas, take away the automobiles of people who don't know how to drive (ie speedily,weaving in and out of traffic, people that cause accidents because they don't understand the concept of "Right turn on red"..."insert your own traffic pet peeve" you get the point)

The hybrids we see today still burn gas, albeit more efficiently. If you talk about electric cars, sure we reduce our reliance on oil, but we still have to have some type of energy source (coal, hydroelectric, nuclear) to generate the electricity. With coal, you get pollution/acid rain, hydroelectric, you get the possibility of changing ecosystems or flooding if not done right and nuclear...NIMBY, spent rods, potential for waste getting in the wrong hands etc.)

Unfortunately, we have painted ourselves in a corner by our own consumption, where Big Oil, the Big 3 and our own government have fostered this "feeding frenzy" among us. Being more efficient with how WE (collectively) use our vehicles is a great temporary solution, but we must stick with being frugal when prices go down too. The long term solution is much more grim. We are like lemmings, we got more efficient (smaller vehicle were the "in" thing) as a result of the oil crises of the 1970s, then when price dropped, we forgot about how expensive gas used to be and demanded much larger vehicles that consume more gas. There are two painful scenarios that can occur:

scenario 1) Gas prices remain high, consumers are forced into the smaller more efficient cars. The outcome (I would hope), in the long term, is that there is an incentive for consumers to demand and manufacturers to supply "useful and legitimately priced" vehicles that virtually eliminate the strong demand we have for gasoline. In the short term, the high gas prices hurts everybody and hopefully we don't end up with disastrous efforts like the V864 or the 350 diesel cobbled up from an Olds gas motor or a flagging economy that would hamper the development of useful technology (remember all those vacuum lines on the cars from the 1980s?).

Scenario 2.) Gas prices drop, consumers spend freely on gas and forget about high gas prices for a little while and then prices bounce back up and we start to discuss boycotting gas stations on a given day.

Our country's political industrial-complex prohibits the innovation that we saw when our country went through its own industrial revolution. As a result, we probably will always have a proverbial gun pointing at our heads, even though our "leaders" and the "wannabe leaders" say that we live in a free country.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Just for the record, I didn't buy gas today... but, then, I usually buy gas on Friday on the way home.

</div></div>

Just for the record, <span style="font-style: italic">I did!</span> First time in about a week and a half, though. Seven whole gallons, too! (I'm doing <span style="font-style: italic">my</span> best.) With the price collusion problems we have here a boob would know better than to wait for tomorrow's shenanigans.

[HurstGN]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> we have here a boob </div></div>

Dave, you went bald?!?

[75 LeSabre Custom (Alex Clark)]

A couple of friends of mine were ranting that they would'nt buy gas on the 19th. So I hurried home and printed out the facts you all have put on the table. Lets just say they were speechless.

P.S. They all did buy gas on the 19th by the way.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> With the price collusion problems we have here a boob would know better than to wait for tomorrow's shenanigans. </div></div>

Today the shenanigans equal a 29 cent price hike across the city, about average. I love living in a "conservative" city.

The more things change....

[Gene Brink]

Dave,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No Such figure for heating oil was found, however it's likely very similar. I don't see a heck of a lot of reduced consumption. Fluctuations seen are mostly due to weather conditions. At the very best we're barely keeping even with the rate of urban sprawl by increasing our home heating efficiency. Really reducing energy consumption is so foreign to most of us that we cannot even conceive of it. </div></div>

Everything I've read regarding building heating/cooling (both commercial and residential) indicates great strides in efficiencies which, unfortunately (?), have been offset by home sizes increasing greatly over the last 20 years. The "average" 1200 sq. ft. house I am living in is way short of today's "average" house (which the last time I read was around 2600 sq. ft.). Don't know if the same trend is in effect for commercial buildings but do know that new construction requires wider hallways, etc. so suspect that may well be the case. (Rather like cars [to include truck types], and/or engines in same, getting bigger/heavier overall. Hard to have increased efficiencies in operation net any positive results when vehicles get bigger/more powerful.)

Hard to face but I am convinced that depleting oil supplied will spur technological advances that will ultimately be beneficial (not that we will save any money).

As usual, Dave, good solid comments on most of what you have said. You are absolutely right - weather is the biggest factor affecting how much energy is needed to heat/cool a building. (There may be a corollary effect with how much traffic there is really affecting how much fuel is used in real world driving [especially here in Los Angeles - way too many cars!].) Enjoyed reading what you had to say.

[Guest Shaffer]

It made the gas price really go WAY down here. .89 cents per gallon today!

Just kidding. LOL.

Still $1.86 for regular unleaded at the lowest price I have seen in the area.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You are absolutely right - weather is the biggest factor affecting how much energy is needed to heat/cool a building. </div></div>

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure that out.........

[Dave@Moon]

Thanks for the kind words, Gene.

[JohnD1956]

I received a recent e mail with a much better idea about how to impact the gas prices than a one day boycott. A one day boycott is ineffective because sooer or later you will still have to buy gas.

Maybe the way to go ( as per this e mail) is to boycott one supplier, for weeks or months. As the law of supply and demand go, if one has a big supply with no demand, then the price will usually receed to the level that there is demand again. So if we all stopped buying gas from one supplier, then their supply would maximize and if they wanted to get some income, they'd be forced to reconsider their price. When ( and if) they reduced their price, then we would go to them and boycott the next supplier, till the scenario repeats itself.

Now this is an idea which could work. I don't know about in your state but the Mobil stations where I live are consistently higher in price than most others with the notable exceptions of Citgo. I would be glad to boycott these stations till all their milk in their mini marts went sour!

[Dave@Moon]

Fuel suppliers buy and sell from each other so much it's amazing. If nobody bought from ABC stations, then the extra gas being bought at XYZ stations to make up the difference would be ABC product that XYZ bought and resold. You might close a few marginal mini-marts, but that's about it.

You hurt these guys by not buying their product at all if possible, and living on the thinnest margin of it at all times. Period. There is no comfortable way out short of driving a good fuel-efficient car and then as little as necessary. (p.s. This from a car guy who loves to drive as much as anyone!)

That said, I have made it a personal policy not to buy anything else at gas stations or mini-marts during a gas purchase. This is <span style="font-style: italic">only</span> because the marketers in this area are participating in a transparent, corporately controlled collusion scheme that I'm sure most readers here are sick of hearing about. I don't see the point of giving more money to someone I know is stealing from me, so I take my business elsewhere.

[Guest AWBE]

In real dollars , gas is no higher than it was 20 years ago. Everything costs more----it just took longer for the gas to get there. Quit your whining

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Quit your whining </div></div>

Read up on what was happening to this country in 1982, and <span style="font-style: italic">start</span>! You will be soon enough anyway.

[Matt Harwood]

I'm also tired of the whining.

I think a useful way of looking at current gas prices is to compare the long-term differences between what you're spending now and what you were spending in the past (which, apparently, we were comfortable with).

Let's do some math. Say I have a car that holds 20 gallons of regular fuel. I fill it up once a week (fuel economy at this point is irrelevant).

When gas was $1.50/gallon, I would spend $30.00/week on gas or $1560.00 a year.

Today I spend $2.00/gallon, $40.00/week and $2080.00 a year. Guys, that's only an extra $10 a week, despite a 33% jump in prices. Skip a lunch out with the guys or a two mornings at Starbuck's and you have no real difference.

So to put this in perspective, even at $2.00/gallon, compared to last year or three years ago, we aren't really spending all that much more money on gas. It isn't going to cripple anyone financially (though I can certainly understand businesspeople who use delivery vehicles and other gas engines as part of business complaining because it eats into profits). But for us regular guys, this isn't the crisis that everyone is making it out to be. We'll get used to paying $2.00/gallon shortly and nobody will be any worse off than they were a month ago when it was "only" $1.75. In my opinion, this is a non-issue that the media has hyped to the point that everyone believes it is a national crisis.

It's time to get over it, folks. If you don't like it, make a change in your life to make it better, whether that is changing your vehicle of choice, changing your driving habits, carpooling, whatever. But don't expect a few minutes of grumbling and some half-witted boycots to solve the problem for you. We're still paying a lot less than 80% of the rest of the world for gas--stop being so upset. You could be living in Europe where it costs $80 to fill up a Ford Focus. Be thankful for what we do have and for being lucky enough to live in America. Take a look at the big picture and realize that things could be much, much worse for you.

Good thing I'm wearing my big boy pants today--I'm guessing that there will be some renewed bickering here in a few hours...

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you don't like it, make a change in your life to make it better, whether that is changing your vehicle of choice, changing your driving habits, carpooling, whatever. But don't expect a few minutes of grumbling and some half-witted boycots to solve the problem for you. </div></div>

Amen and well said!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Skip a lunch out with the guys or a two mornings at Starbuck's and you have no real difference. </div></div>

Not if you work at the diner or own the Starbucks! Especially if...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (though I can certainly understand businesspeople who use delivery vehicles and other gas engines as part of business complaining because it eats into profits).</div></div>

...you're paying the delivery bills at the Starbucks or diner (a.k.a. the customer).

And therefore....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It isn't going to cripple anyone financially... But for us regular guys, this isn't the crisis that everyone is making it out to be. We'll get used to paying $2.00/gallon shortly and nobody will be any worse off than they were a month ago when it was "only" $1.75. In my opinion, this is a non-issue that the media has hyped to the point that everyone believes it is a national crisis. </div></div>

...is very short sighted.

The robust economy under Clinton was due in large part to low fuel prices allowing for disposable income. As of now, that's close to gone. I don't know how many people remember 1982 (12.9% financing "bargains", 16% mortgages, airline collapse, serious unemployment, AMC & Checker spiraling, Chevette/Omni/Peugeot diesel cabs, etc.), but I do.

It isn't commuting to work that'll kill ya', it's <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> commuting at all!

[gungeey]

Pure opinion on my part:

This situation reaches far deeper into my pockets than the extra ten bucks I have to pull out at the gas station. You seem confused in that these soaring prices eat into company profits...this is only a temporary condition. Prices will soon reflect the new prices companies require to stay in the black along with an allowance factored in for the momentary loss before price adjustment and likely an estimate of future oil price increases. Part B of my opinion is that despite the claims of increased world demand etc causing these spiraling prices, my speculation is that this is no more than payback for our interference in mid-east affairs. As prices continue rising the environmentalists will demand of their reps on Capital Hill that we need BIG drill bits up in Alaska, and quick. Finally, as a cocky arrogant American, I reserve the right to not give a rats ass how much the europeans are willing to pay for their petrol. They don't have BUICKS. WE DO. Steve

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As prices continue rising the environmentalists will demand of their reps on Capital Hill that we need BIG drill bits up in Alaska, and quick. </div></div>

At most the untapped section of Alaska holds about 6 weeks worth of crude oil. Then what?

Any other easy answers out there?