1938 Buick Special barn find spins but won't start

[MCHinson]

10 hours ago, VintageIronage said:

 have tried 3 different condensers all have been done

Were any of those condensers out of a running vehicle? If not, were they all from the same source? The most likely suspect in a non-running Straight 8 engine is always the condenser. If you are using a known good condenser, I think you need to review the Buick shop manual on how to time the engine. It is possible to have it off just enough that it will never start and won't backfire or make any attempt to start.

[Gary W]

21 hours ago, MCHinson said:

Make sure all of the ignition wiring is correct

 

Just a few weeks ago, a friend could not get his Buick running after a tune up.  He mixed up four spark plug wires.  John and I double checked all wires coming out of the cap and followed them IN THE PROPER FIRING ORDER to the proper spark plug and she started right up.  This may seem so basic but anything can happen.

[EmTee]

Note that my '38 would sometimes labor while cranking.  In the end, I discovered that the mechanical advance weights in the distributor were 'frosted' with a light coating of rust and not always returning to the 'zero-advavance' position.  I wound-up removing the distributor, disassembling and cleaning everything.  I also replaced the breaker point and ground wires with new ones sourced from Bob's Automobilia (https://bobsautomobilia.com/).

[Oldtech]

3 hours ago, EmTee said:

Note that my '38 would sometimes labor while cranking.  In the end, I discovered that the mechanical advance weights in the distributor were 'frosted' with a light coating of rust and not always returning to the 'zero-advavance' position.  I wound-up removing the distributor, disassembling and cleaning everything.  I also replaced the breaker point and ground wires with new ones sourced from Bob's Automobilia (https://bobsautomobilia.com/).

This is more common than you might think.  Always check them.

[VintageIronage]

On 7/9/2024 at 9:28 PM, MCHinson said:

Were any of those condensers out of a running vehicle? If not, were they all from the same source? The most likely suspect in a non-running Straight 8 engine is always the condenser. If you are using a known good condenser, I think you need to review the Buick shop manual on how to time the engine. It is possible to have it off just enough that it will never start and won't backfire or make any attempt to start.

MCHinson-

                     The three differrent condensers were from three different sources, Rockauto, and two different local sotres with different brands.

[VintageIronage]

On 7/10/2024 at 11:37 AM, Oldtech said:

This is more common than you might think.  Always check them.

Oldtech, thank you, I checked and rechecked the plug wire sequence.

[VintageIronage]

On 7/10/2024 at 11:37 AM, Oldtech said:

This is more common than you might think.  Always check them.

Thanks Oldtech, I will check that, since the car sat for so long.

[MCHinson]

9 hours ago, VintageIronage said:

MCHinson-

                     The three differrent condensers were from three different sources, Rockauto, and two different local sotres with different brands.

While incorrect timing is probably more likely to be the problem, If the condensers are all new ones from typical auto parts suppliers they are likely to be imported and should be suspected of being junk until proven that they actually work in a running car. I would try resetting the timing by the following the timing instructions in the shop manual. If I was going to buy a condenser from an auto parts store, I would go to NAPA and confirm that they can supply one made in the US. I have bought too many imported ones that were bad out of the box.

 

Where are you located? Hopefully we can find someone nearby who owns a similar running car to furnish a known good condenser for you to try to rule the condenser out completely.

[VintageIronage]

What number spark plugs are you all using? The ones in the car showed signs of use/running, so I replaced them with the same type, and gapped them to the manual.

Edited July 13 by VintageIronage (see edit history)

[VintageIronage]

Hello and thanks for taking time to read this.

 

New spark plug wires made no difference, a coil from a running vehicle, no difference. Grounded the engine block, grounded the distributor, no difference. Put a screw in one of the spark plug wires and cranked it, a nice strong blue spark, spark plug wires, checked and re-re-checked.

 

Any oyther suggestions?

 

 

PS, I have looked literally high and low for a number on the block, and can not find one in the places it should be, any tips there to look?

 

[1939_Buick]

24 minutes ago, VintageIronage said:

PS, I have looked literally high and low for a number on the block, and can not find one in the places it should be, any tips there to look?

https://www.teambuick.com/reference/ident_engine_til_52.php

On some engines are numbers stamped on the block under the water pump.

 

Got photos of the engine from both sides?

Edited July 14 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

1 hour ago, VintageIronage said:

Hello and thanks for taking time to read this.

 

New spark plug wires made no difference, a coil from a running vehicle, no difference. Grounded the engine block, grounded the distributor, no difference. Put a screw in one of the spark plug wires and cranked it, a nice strong blue spark, spark plug wires, checked and re-re-checked.

 

Any oyther suggestions?

 

 

PS, I have looked literally high and low for a number on the block, and can not find one in the places it should be, any tips there to look?

 

I would have also installed a condenser from the car that you got the coil from but if you have strong blue spark at the plugs, the condenser sounds OK. The only thing left to do is adjust the timing by following the instructions for static setting of the timing as shown in the Buick shop manual. If that does not get it running, you may also have a carburetor problem. You have to have compression, proper amount of fuel, and good spark at the right time to make it run. 

[VintageIronage]

Today I took the carburetor off, and tried spraying a prudent amount of starting fluid into the intake, still no attempt to run, then I looked at the ADV mark through the flywheel opening, it matched the manual specs, but I rotated the distributor clockwise and counter clockwise with attempting to start, no joy, then I took out the distributor, and put it in 180 dg's opposite, and tried starting again, still no joy, so put it back in the way the manual says to. The distributor is missing the pointer at the base, while the scale is there. One thing I did find out, with the distributor out, I was finally able to find the engine number, it matches the registration and is corrrect for 1938, with a 4-34..... number.

[JACK M]

Years ago, I was probably still a teenager, A neighbor had me put points, condenser and spark plugs in his Studebaker.

I could not get that thing to start no matter what I did.

It had a nice blue spark with a good snap with a plug laying on the head but would not start.

Tried towing it, would not run.

In discussed he had me tow it to a local shop.

The shop got it running and the shop owner did me the courtesy of a phone call to tell me to stay away from Champion spark plugs.

He assured me that it was not my fault, and he also told the owner the same thing.

All he did was change spark plugs to a different brand.

I had a hard time living that one down, even with the help of that mechanic passing the word that it wasn't my fault.

I ended up working for him for a short while after all of that.

 

I guess what I am saying is to try another brand of spark plugs.

[Wascator]

Clean the points then drag piece of heavy paper between them to remove any grit. Make sure the points  are opening some when the distributor cam bump is pushing on the plastic wear block. 1-6-2-5-8-4-7-4 is the  firing order.
You can run a wire directly from the pos battery post (for neg ground system to the power-in side of coil to rule out wiring problems with the ignition switch etc. but if you have 6 Volts at coil “in” side it should be firing, IF the distributor is not installed 180 degrees off.

if its firing you should be able to shoot a little gas in the carb while cranking and at least get it to hit. 
it doesn’t have to be in perfect tune to run but there are a few traps that will make you want to pull your hair out. I had a distributor once which was grounding the hot wire to the points; liked to have wore me out.

Edited July 16 by Wascator (see edit history)

[EmTee]

If you have fuel and spark, it must be a timing issue.  Have you confirmed that the rotor points to #1 on the cap at TDC on the power stroke?  Both valves closed?  Check each cylinder in firing order succession.  If valves aren't closed at TDC power stroke on other cylinders that would probably mean the cam timing is wrong.  Does it even sound like it is trying to run?  The cam/crank timing isn't obvious when installing a new timing chain.  If it looks like the timing cover has been off recently that could be a problem.  I thought compression readings were OK, though.  I would expect some bad cylinder compression readings if the cam timing was off...

[Bloo]

8 hours ago, EmTee said:

I would expect some bad cylinder compression readings if the cam timing was off...

Usually even and low. No promises though.

 

Edited July 16 by Bloo (see edit history)