1950 Plymouth Special Deluxe sedan $8000 San Diego - Not bad considering <Not Mine>

[m-mman]

Considering how many of these Plymouths are just beat to death this one aint too bad.

 

Obviously an old man's car it has the obligatory altimeter on the dash. But it has likely been many years since it has crossed any high mountain passes. The front seat is much better than I expected.

The turn signal lights mounted on the splash panels also suggests ownership by a tinkering old man. 

 

Typical crappy pictures and little text. There is a video of it running. 

At least nobody has painted it red! 

Sadly the price will have to be cut in half before it can find a new home. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/367462232614401/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Abd358741-1ea2-486b-a17f-06e8da088878 

 

The car and the whole body is in great condition, it turns on, but it’s been sitting for a few years, it will need a full checkup before putting it on the road, but overall it’s a great classic car.

[DrumBob]

Looks good, but overpriced. I have found a '49 Plymouth not too far away that has attracted my attention at a very nice price. It's already been restored, inside and out. It's two-tone blue. 

 

A friend of mine who buys and sells vintage cars, advise me to have Lemon Squad check it out. 

[m-mman]

2 hours ago, DrumBob said:

A friend of mine who buys and sells vintage cars, advise me to have Lemon Squad check it out. 

NO! No, no, no . . . 

A friend was selling a nicely restored, fully rebuilt 1960 Studebaker Lark convertible. The buyers had never owned a collector car. Most likely they had never driven or ridden one either. The car was in CA they were in Fla. They sent an inspector who's only experience was with cars 10 years old or less. The inspector showed up and wrote up deficiencies because there was; no check engine light, no functioning air bag light, was missing the plastic engine covers and most critical there were no seat belts or shoulder harnesses.

The inspector asked how to turn on the A/C and couldn't imagine a car without any. (the inspector marked that the A/C had been removed) The inspector never looked at the top fabric and never asked to demonstrate the top action.

The inspector did not (COULD NOT!) test drive the car because it was a manual shift and they had no idea how to operate one.

My friend had to educate and correct the inspection reporting at every step.   Reportedly this completely useless inspection cost them $400.

 

Needless to say the buyers were sorely disappointed after the car fell far short of their expectations. "Why do you have to pump the gas pedal to start it? Something is wrong with it!" The buyers also had difficulty with the manual shift but among other complaints (the buyers called him almost daily for a month) they complained when the battery went dead. WTH? It had a new battery. "Oh we were admiring it sitting in the garage one night and went inside the house and left the doors open. . ."  You left the interior lights on!  You drained the battery!  "Oh, we thought the lights went off automatically, they do on all of our other cars. . . "  

 

If you are considering buying a car at a distance and you want a local person to evaluate it for you, then you MUST use someone who is thoroughly familiar with;

Old cars, cars of that era, and preferably someone who is well versed with that exact year, make and model.   Anything else and it is a complete waste of time and money. 

A brass era collector is useless evaluating a 50s car. A muscle car person (Mustang? Camaro?) would never understand a 1940s orphan make. 

 

Years ago a guy asked a "fellow collector" to do a pre-purchase inspection of a 41 Cadillac. He bought it, got it home and was shocked at what a POS it was. Nothing as it was described. Turns out the inspector was a 1900s to 1920 expert. He restored cars from just a frame and scattered bits and pieces. The inspector thought it was amazingly complete and would be an easy restoration.

 

I once had a 1930s collector tell me how easy it is to recreate a (multi colored, all vinyl, hot stamped, 3 dimensional, integral armrest) mid 1950s luxury car door panel because he regularly works with flat 1930s sedan door panels covered with mohair where a map pocket is the only feature. He had no idea. He had never restored a car like that. 

 

The AACA however is filled with people who love to have a reason look at cars! Post a notice on the main page and you will quickly get lots of offers from people who KNOW that type of car and will probably find and report on things that you would never even know about. Things that only somebody well versed in that car would know. 

 

 

[DrumBob]

On 6/14/2024 at 2:04 AM, m-mman said:

NO! No, no, no . . . 

A friend was selling a nicely restored, fully rebuilt 1960 Studebaker Lark convertible. The buyers had never owned a collector car. Most likely they had never driven or ridden one either. The car was in CA they were in Fla. They sent an inspector who's only experience was with cars 10 years old or less. The inspector showed up and wrote up deficiencies because there was; no check engine light, no functioning air bag light, was missing the plastic engine covers and most critical there were no seat belts or shoulder harnesses.

The inspector asked how to turn on the A/C and couldn't imagine a car without any. (the inspector marked that the A/C had been removed) The inspector never looked at the top fabric and never asked to demonstrate the top action.

The inspector did not (COULD NOT!) test drive the car because it was a manual shift and they had no idea how to operate one.

My friend had to educate and correct the inspection reporting at every step.   Reportedly this completely useless inspection cost them $400.

 

Needless to say the buyers were sorely disappointed after the car fell far short of their expectations. "Why do you have to pump the gas pedal to start it? Something is wrong with it!" The buyers also had difficulty with the manual shift but among other complaints (the buyers called him almost daily for a month) they complained when the battery went dead. WTH? It had a new battery. "Oh we were admiring it sitting in the garage one night and went inside the house and left the doors open. . ."  You left the interior lights on!  You drained the battery!  "Oh, we thought the lights went off automatically, they do on all of our other cars. . . "  

 

If you are considering buying a car at a distance and you want a local person to evaluate it for you, then you MUST use someone who is thoroughly familiar with;

Old cars, cars of that era, and preferably someone who is well versed with that exact year, make and model.   Anything else and it is a complete waste of time and money. 

A brass era collector is useless evaluating a 50s car. A muscle car person (Mustang? Camaro?) would never understand a 1940s orphan make. 

 

Years ago a guy asked a "fellow collector" to do a pre-purchase inspection of a 41 Cadillac. He bought it, got it home and was shocked at what a POS it was. Nothing as it was described. Turns out the inspector was a 1900s to 1920 expert. He restored cars from just a frame and scattered bits and pieces. The inspector thought it was amazingly complete and would be an easy restoration.

 

I once had a 1930s collector tell me how easy it is to recreate a (multi colored, all vinyl, hot stamped, 3 dimensional, integral armrest) mid 1950s luxury car door panel because he regularly works with flat 1930s sedan door panels covered with mohair where a map pocket is the only feature. He had no idea. He had never restored a car like that. 

 

The AACA however is filled with people who love to have a reason look at cars! Post a notice on the main page and you will quickly get lots of offers from people who KNOW that type of car and will probably find and report on things that you would never even know about. Things that only somebody well versed in that car would know. 

 

 

Thank you for that tip. When I went to Lemon Squad's website, I got the impression they were well versed in modern cars. 

 

I contacted the seller of the '49 Plymouth and asked him if he could give me any more information than what was in the ad. His curt response was, "come up and look it over." Well, it's in Rhode Island, not exactly around the corner to drive over for a look-see. I responded with that info and haven't heard a word. It sounds like he doesn't want to be bothered. 

Edited June 15 by DrumBob (see edit history)

[m-mman]

2 hours ago, DrumBob said:

His curt response was, "come up and look it over." Well, it's in Rhode Island, not exactly around the corner to drive over for a look-see. I responded with that info and haven't heard a word. It sounds like he doesn't want to be bothered

Yeah, a lot of people think that an old car sells itself with no effort on their part.  Wrong! Selling a car (or anything else) is work, and bother and time consuming and inconvenient.

 BUT if you want someone to trade cash for your iron then you will have to invest time in meeting and dealing with people. 
 

Car buying…..

want a late model transportation car? There are plenty of lots and choices very close you never have to go far. 

Collector car? Expect and plan that you will have to travel 2 to 6 hours to examine and buy what you want.  Whatever year, make, model interests you there isn’t ever going to be one nearby. 
 

Long time experienced Collectors see the time and effort to look at a car as just part of the hobby.  
 

Now you can always buy a car based on photos and promises and I have!  But it takes a lot of old car experience to translate the hype and pictures into reality. (BTW most times I got lucky and have received exactly what I was expecting). 
Expensive car? (Maybe just expensive to you) and it is a distance away? (Maybe outside of the rust belt) then a plane ticket and a motel room are much, much cheaper than a lifetime of disappointment.

 

 If nothing else think of the trip as cheap insurance against buyer’s remorse.  

A days drive to see a car? Think of it like a weekend excursion and plan to do some sightseeing while you are there. That way you had a productive time whether you buy the car or not. 

[alsancle]

On 6/13/2024 at 10:48 PM, DrumBob said:

Looks good, but overpriced. I have found a '49 Plymouth not too far away that has attracted my attention at a very nice price. It's already been restored, inside and out. It's two-tone blue. 

 

A friend of mine who buys and sells vintage cars, advise me to have Lemon Squad check it out. 

Post some pictures of it.  We will tell you more than the Lemon Squad.   I'm surprised someone in the business would tell you to rely on an inspection service.   They are typically worthless.

[Rivguy]

Looks pretty good. When I was younger I would have hated it. But my "Official Old Man card"  should be coming in the mail in the Fall. I like it, and it's green!

[DrumBob]

20 hours ago, alsancle said:

Post some pictures of it.  We will tell you more than the Lemon Squad.   I'm surprised someone in the business would tell you to rely on an inspection service.   They are typically worthless.

Here are some photos of the '49 Plymouth that caught my eye. The seller doesn't say whether or not he has a title. Getting a title in this state is a real PITA for an old car. 

 

I think he has already written me off as a novice, based upon his response to my questions. Disappointing. When I'm selling a piece of music gear, I take the time to answer potential buyer's questions. 

[JFranklin]

I do like the original upholstery and dash woodgrain in the green car and it looks to have a reasonable re-paint. It is better than a $4000. car.

[The 55er]

58 minutes ago, DrumBob said:

Here are some photos of the '49 Plymouth that caught my eye. The seller doesn't say whether or not he has a title. Getting a title in this state is a real PITA for an old car. 

 

I think he has already written me off as a novice, based upon his response to my questions. Disappointing. When I'm selling a piece of music gear, I take the time to answer potential buyer's questions. 

Don't want to hijack this thread except to advise anyone interested in this two-tone blue 49 Plymouth to run away, it's not restored, it's a non-original hack job someone made to suit themselves and that alone should knock the asking price way down. After reviewing the pics, I certainly wouldn't drive any great distance to see it, Lots of 49-52 Plymouth sedans out there, look for a better (more original) example than this one. Just my opinion. 

[DrumBob]

56 minutes ago, The 55er said:

Don't want to hijack this thread except to advise anyone interested in this two-tone blue 49 Plymouth to run away, it's not restored, it's a non-original hack job someone made to suit themselves and that alone should knock the asking price way down. After reviewing the pics, I certainly wouldn't drive any great distance to see it, Lots of 49-52 Plymouth sedans out there, look for a better (more original) example than this one. Just my opinion. 

I'm assuming the paint is not original, but otherwise, why would you avoid this example? It looks nice, but of course, there could be hidden issues. 

 

I am not anal about originality. I want a car that looks good and is mechanically sound. I know that Chrysler cars from this era were well made, if not a bit stodgy looking. I guess that's why so many have survived. 

[The 55er]

Admittedly, I don't know what the asking price is but I'll bet it's high enough for a car that's missing the entire underhood heater system, has no horns or bumper guards, and displays a very unprofessional underhood hack wiring job. I'd want to check out the entire wiring harness on that car before seriously considering it. No 49 Plymouth sedan  came from the factory two-toned with a light blue interior, a dark blue dashboard and metal scuff plates on the door sills. All I'm saying is IMO the less original a car like a 49 Plymouth sedan is the less it shoud be worth. If there's evidence of any bondo repairs in the body and a possible title problem? that would definitely finish it for me. Good luck. 

[DrumBob]

1 hour ago, The 55er said:

Admittedly, I don't know what the asking price is but I'll bet it's high enough for a car that's missing the entire underhood heater system, has no horns or bumper guards, and displays a very unprofessional underhood hack wiring job. I'd want to check out the entire wiring harness on that car before seriously considering it. No 49 Plymouth sedan  came from the factory two-toned with a light blue interior, a dark blue dashboard and metal scuff plates on the door sills. All I'm saying is IMO the less original a car like a 49 Plymouth sedan is the less it shoud be worth. If there's evidence of any bondo repairs in the body and a possible title problem? that would definitely finish it for me. Good luck. 

This is the complete description as posted by the seller: "1949 Plymouth Special Deluxe three speed on the column manual transmission runs and looks great. Any questions message me."

 

I had questions that he was unwilling to answer, obviously. He's asking $4500, but we all know that asking is not always getting. Just the fact that he's not forthcoming with information is a red flag to me. 

 

I would hire someone qualified to inspect the car if interested. It's in Rhode Island. 

[alsancle]

Run away from the blue car.  Too many problems to list.  It starts out looking ok from 20 feet on the outside but the details give it away as a poorly maintained car.

 

What is your budget.  There are lots of these and the difference  between the best one in the world and a pile of crap may only be a couple of thousand bucks.   Also, hold out for a two door.   And if you can hold out for a business coupe.

[DrumBob]

On 6/16/2024 at 6:25 PM, alsancle said:

Run away from the blue car.  Too many problems to list.  It starts out looking ok from 20 feet on the outside but the details give it away as a poorly maintained car.

 

What is your budget.  There are lots of these and the difference  between the best one in the world and a pile of crap may only be a couple of thousand bucks.   Also, hold out for a two door.   And if you can hold out for a business coupe.

What details are you speaking of? I see what looks to be a well maintained car. I'm truly interested in what you meant when you said it is poorly maintained. I'm trying to learn.

 

It doesn't matter in this particular case, because the car was sold today, but the more knowledge I gain, the better off I'll be.  

[Fleetwood Meadow]

He doesn’t like it because it’s a four door. For some reason if it’s not a coupe it’s garbage on this site. That blue car looked like it was in pretty great shape. 

[Fossil]

1 hour ago, Fleetwood Meadow said:

He doesn’t like it because it’s a four door. For some reason if it’s not a coupe it’s garbage on this site. That blue car looked like it was in pretty great shape.

Not true. Coupes are cute but four doors are far more practical. There are a number of members here that not only own a four door car but others who appreciate them also. You seem to have some misgivings about the members here and that's a shame. 

Take a look at my Avatar for instance. I'm not sure I would have bought it if it had been a coupe. Who knows? Either way I would never be critical of them. Now convertibles are a whole different story 😉

 

 

Edited June 18 by Fossil (see edit history)

[m-mman]

4 hours ago, DrumBob said:

What details are you speaking of? I see what looks to be a well maintained car. I'm truly interested in what you meant when you said it is poorly maintained. I'm trying to learn.

When a car is new it basically is in the best condition that it will ever be in.  It will be quality enough that it will be sold with a warranty.  
Then the use begins, normal wear and damage that will need to be repaired.  (Aka maintenance) 

 

Ok then the big question is: Was the maintenance and repairs performed to the same specifications and standards as the car existed before-during the warranty period? 
 

Cars are affordable because of mass production techniques that allow quality to be profitable.  When repairs are performed on a used car they are never going to be done to the exact original specifications. They cannot be.  The cost of performing repairs to that level will always be too high. This means that corners are and will be cut during the repairs.  The only question is how much cutting and how much cheating was done. 
 

Here is how it works in practice. An old car with 1000 actual miles that has been protected in climate controlled storage. Outside of the damage that results from chemicals (fuel, battery, oil) it will essentially still be a car that could still meet the warranty. Everything is just as the manufacturer intended. ( cars in this condition are always worth the most)

 

But few cars are that carefully stored.  They were used. Things wear, rot and get damaged.  So how were the repairs made?

Examples: the paint had nicks, scratches and oxidation.

 

 The factory applied the paint over perfectly straight (just stamped) bare metal before any trim was installed.  The paint was sprayed by a person who did nothing all day long but spray paint on that exact car.  He knows how to paint it.  (Enough that it can be warranted) 

 

But now it is repainted by a body shop. Did they remove ALL the trim? Masking is a shortcut. Did they sand it extensively? Or just scuff it up? The corners they cut WILL show up later as cracks, peels, perpetual dirt running out of the moldings whenever it gets washed. Who would want that?

 

Upholstery. The factory used high quality fabric. They bought so much (mass production) that it cost the same as cheap fabric. But it wears and tears over time. 

The upholstery shop is not going to install fabric that costs hundreds of dollars a yard. They are going to use whatever fabric they have lying around that they got cheap. It is not correct, (velour and mouse fur is NOT the same as 100% wool or mohair). It won’t lie flat, it will wrinkle and it many cases the upholster did not repad the seat OR he just put down a layer of cheap foam. 
 

Nobody would warranty these paint or upholstery jobs. And the repair shops don’t offer warranties. 
 

What short cuts were taken elsewhere on the car? Mechanical repairs are expensive when done correctly. Original parts are not always available.
 

It was mentioned that the heater parts had been removed from the blue car WTH??? Why was the heater removed??? This is poor quality work that is easily seen.  What damage (and think of poor repairs as damage) was done elsewhere that you cannot see?
 

You have heard about collectors having to “sort out” any old car that they purchased. Sorting out a car means that you, the new owner are fixing the substandard previous repairs. (Or the parts that just wore out since it was last restored). 
 

How do experienced collectors evaluate a car? How close is it to the warranty condition that it was in when it was built? The blue car has had a lot of repairs. We can see that they are not to the factory warranty standards and like removing the heater they are so poor that the only guarantee you would get is that there are a lot of unseen damage and issues that WILL need sorting.  
 

Not discussing price, the green car is worlds better. Because it was not repaired as much, (fixed incorrectly) it is expected to have fewer problems that will need sorting. Yes it has been painted but it’s the correct color. The painter aimed to match the factory standard not change it to his idea of what it should be (two tone) More care equals better quality. 

 

The green car seems to have original upholstery.  (Covered by an old timey seat cover) It should retain the original padding. The door panels look stained (always a problem with ancient cloth interiors) but it means that they will still have the original fabric and padding and welting and the correct retainers and surrounds for the handles and cranks. 
 

55er looked at the blue car and saw that it is NOT “fully restored”. It is far from original and has had many short cuts (read: damage) done to it. It will be a problem car to sort out. 
 

Experienced collectors use words; original, untouched, unmolested, as built because if a car matches those descriptors it will most likely be a good car. 
 

Now compare to a 100 point body off frame, top quality restoration.  These cars are better than new.  The frames and under panels are as well painted and as shiny as the fenders.
 

Essentially they are so perfect that potentially they could be sold with a warranty. BUT even 100 point perfect cars don’t come with warranties because in some cases even these cars have short cuts. (Yes cost savings)

 

A well known honest dealer who frequents this site bought a 57 Nomad.  Best in the country. Just received actual 100 points at all the top judging events. Because he intended to sell it he wanted to ensure that it was well sorted. It only had a couple of miles on it since the restoration. It had never been driven only in and out of the trailer. 
It ran badly. Long story short the engine was junk!  He removed it to diagnose the problem and discovered that the engine had been assembled with used parts!!  He had to properly rebuild the engine.  The restoration was only concerned about looks. Judging is rarely about operation.  The restoration cut corners in the mechanical department. 
Cut corners are a fact of life. When you get an old car there will be bad repairs, so you search out the best original with the least repairs. 
 

This is how we look at old cars. 

[The 55er]

One way to learn more about a car you're considering buying is to search the internet for some detailed pictures of that particular vehicle. People love to post videos of their cars and there are a lot of comprehensive pics out there showing the details of a 49 Plymouth. Try to find a Ebay dealer or YouTube video of a nice original car or a correct restoration and compare it to the car you're interested in. It makes it easier to spot things that are incorrect, hacked or out of place. BTW a closer inspection showed some additional underhood flaws in the blue 49 Plymouth sedan, it's missing the horn relay and voltage regulator that are supposed to be mounted on the drivers side of the firewall and I don't know what's going on with the clamped black plastic covering on the fuel line to the carburetor. A ballast resistor and those smaller battery cables, maybe a 12v conversion too? If it actually sold I would be glad that car's someone else's problem now and not mine. Look close, those vise grips laying on top of the oil filter canister suggest this Plymouth is still a "work" in progress. A low initial purchase price is certainly a consideration but shouldn't be THE deciding factor on whether or not you buy a collector car. If that's the only thing that's important to you chances are you're going to get burned every time. 

[alsancle]

10 hours ago, DrumBob said:

What details are you speaking of? I see what looks to be a well maintained car. I'm truly interested in what you meant when you said it is poorly maintained. I'm trying to learn.

 

It doesn't matter in this particular case, because the car was sold today, but the more knowledge I gain, the better off I'll be.  

@m-mman gave a great explanation.    49-52 Plymouth are always for sale.  Take your time and buy the best one you can find within your budget.  There seems to be an inordinate number of low mileage original paint cars for some reason.  Buy one of those if you can.    As for body style,  buy the best car you can find.   My comments about the business coupe is just me as I always liked them.  There are practical reasons for having a bigger car which I understand.  Also, they will be less money.  

 

Here is a checklist.  If you see any of the following move on to the next car:

 

1.  Misc dangling wires.

2.  rats nest under the dash.

3.  after market gauges.

4. shiny paint and dull everything else.

5. 12V conversion

6.  aftermarket wheels or parts

 

Why avoid that stuff?  Because that is what I did when I was 18.   I would never buy a car from 18 year old me.

[DrumBob]

Thanks to all of you for the good responses. Lots to think about. 

[Jim Skelly]

If you are interested in a particular make and model, join the club for that car.  Go to some meets, talk to other owners, and find out the strong points and weaknesses (rust-prone areas, mechanical, scarcity of parts, etc.).  Some cars may be for sale within the club.  If none are available at the moment, search out a reputable collector car dealer.  You will have some confidence in buying since you have hopefully gained substantial knowledge of what to look out for.  Another thing to consider if you are new to this hobby is to buy a car with a strong availability of good quality reproduction parts such as Tri-Five Chevy, Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Model A.     

[alsancle]

Join this:   https://p15-d24.com/

 

and spend a bunch of time there.  You will know more than us in short order.