NEW DEVELOPMENT: Find an owner through the V.I.N. and can someone look at the vehicle for me? - Never Mind

[George Smolinski]

I found a van on FB Marketplace that I like and will buy if it's legitimate. The seller says he is helping a church sell it. I asked for the name of the church and got a photo of part of the title showing the V.I.N. Does anyone here have the ability to find out the owner's name, etc. using the V.I.N.?

Also, does anyone here live in or near Modesto, CA? The van is located in Turlock, CA which is about a 15 minute drive from Modesto. I'm hoping someone can look it over for me. I'm up in MN, a bit far to jump in the car and drive to look at it.

Edited June 11 by George Smolinski (see edit history)

[ABear]

VINs generally are pretty well protected from John Q public research and inquiries due to privacy concerns and would be the domain of the States DMV.

 

You really wouldn't want someone taking a VIN of your vehicles, then finding your name and address and then they can use that info for bad things, right?

 

Times past sometimes a LEO could look up but now days I suspect it may take more than a LEO to do that and there would have to be probable cause for the search.

 

If the deal does not "feel right" then back out now. there most likely is a million copies of the that van in your own state floating around.

 

 

 

 

[Trulyvintage]

Why don’t you get the name of the Church

and contact them to see

If they are selling a van ?

 

Jim

Edited June 7 by Trulyvintage (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Put the VIN into a Google search. They come up frequently. I found a lot of history on the Avalanche I bought three years ago.

 

A few years ago I remember watching one of those Most Wanted TV shows. When asked how they caught the desperado the agent said they found a phone number at his residence. The agent Googled it and a Craigslist ad for painting houses in Phoenix came up. They called, got him.

 

Do the obvious things first.

[George Smolinski]

2 hours ago, ABear said:

there most likely is a million copies of the that van in your own state floating around.

Not hardly. It's older and very low miles.

[Trulyvintage]

Again - start by getting the name

of the church and calling them

directly to see if - in fact - they

have a van for sale.

 

Then see if it was one donated

to the church or if it was used by

them as a church resource.

 

I have friends all over the country

who I have primarily met thru

the course of my travels hauling

 vehicles - I have a good friend

in Visalia, CA who organized the 

2024 Bakersfield Pre War Swap Meet.

 

I am writing this from a good friend’s

place in Hollister, CA  while I wait for

a transport to schedule next to

Seattle or Spokane, WA.

 

i would not ask them to go look

at a vehicle unless I did the 

homework first to see if it 

actually existed and who the 

owner is first ….

 

 

Jim

[John_S_in_Penna]

3 hours ago, Trulyvintage said:

Why don’t you get the name of the Church and contact them to see

If they are selling a van ?

Excellent idea, Jim.

At least part of the confirmation process is

clearly available as you noted.  Maybe another

step would be to have someone independently

assess the van's condition.

[Trulyvintage]

John

 

If the OP verifies the existence 

of the vehicle and has direct 

communication with the actual

owner - I can contact my friend

Jim in Visalia to see if he knows

anyone in the Modesto area who

can look at the vehicle.

 

Jim grew up in Visalia.

He has a stellar reputation earned

by organizing vehicle shows 

and helping folks sell vehicles

as a courtesy to the hobby.

 

His mentors growing up were

often 20 plus years older than

him - as their have grown older

 they - ( or their heirs ) reach

out to Jim to help sell vehicles.

 

His well deserved reputation 

prompted Famoso Dragstrip

to ask him to organize the

2024 Inaugural Bakersfield

Swap meet this April.

 

Jim

 

 

[ABear]

1 hour ago, George Smolinski said:

Not hardly. It's older and very low miles.

Unless it is prewar, there will be a lot of "vans" that were mass produced and quantities well about 100K each yr, most likely on the order of 300K-400K built per yr since modern vans are often sold to commercial fleets, for school busses Churches and rental companies..

 

A Van from a Church would be something like a multi passenger type like a small school bus, plenty of those built.

 

As far as low mileage goes, a vehicle with low miles if it sits long enough tends to rot out the underside and will also have other condition issues with rubber parts.

 

Personally, if you really want it, spend the money and time and go look at it in person, that is the best way. Pictures lie and often hide the problems.

[Trulyvintage]

Looking at a vehicle “ in person “

today can be done with the 

assistance of modern technology.

 

For example:

 

I receive about a call a week 

from a parent wanting to send

a family car to a daughter or son

attending college at a distance 

from home.

 

I put on my “ Dad “ hat ….

 

If it isn’t possible to drive the vehicle

from home to the college …

I recommend 

keeping the car they want to transport

or selling it to pay for another vehicle

near the college.

 

If the parent knows about

buying used vehicles ….

 

I suggest establishing a budget

 and have the child look

for a vehicle within the budget

then have the parent give it an initial 

evaluation ….

 

Then have a trusted local mechanic 

where the parent lives do a

scheduled live video call

between mechanic and Seller

to “ inspect the car “ ….

 

If everything checks out

college vehicle transportation 

issue is solved.

 

This recommendation applies

to most vehicles - whether 

they be daily drivers or 

modestly priced classic vehicles.

 

After doing this - you can decide

if a trip to “ kick the tires “

in person is necessitated or not.

 

Modern technology does

have its advantages.

 

Jim

 

 

 

Edited June 7 by Trulyvintage (see edit history)

[ABear]

1 hour ago, Trulyvintage said:

Looking at a vehicle “ in person “

today can be done with the 

assistance of modern technology.

Your example isn't really much of "technology" but more of "common sense".

 

The problem is today, we have way to much reliance on "technology" and zero common sense.

 

Relying on a third party (IE mechanic that neither party knows) takes a lot of trust that the mechanic is number one, HONEST, number two RELIABLE, number three, has done a thorough time consuming examination on the subject vehicle.

 

Any failure on the part of the mechanic and the house of cards will fall down.

 

I once had asked a Cousin of mine to look at a car near where they lived (which is 4 States away from me), my Cousin turned down my request. At the time I couldn't understand why they didn't want to drive 20 minutes to look at the car for me.. I ended up taking a 800 mile one way trip with my truck with flat bed trailer to look at the car. When I got there, the car was not as good of condition as I was hoping for, but it had a good frame but man the body was swiss cheese as was the trunk floor as was the passenger floor..

 

I did buy it as I was needing a frame better than what I already had.

 

My Cousin most likely would not have been able to give a good look over like I did and I can't fault them for not wanting to get involved..

 

Would it have been worth while paying a third party mechanic to look at it?

 

No.

 

Buying the car was still a far better deal since I ended up with a lot of upgraded suspension parts like disc brakes which my car didn't have and many extra hard to find parts.

 

Yeah, I spent a long weekend to drive there and back, I spent at that time $500 in fuel for 1600 mile round trip for a 100% rust free frame and suspension plus extra motor, transmission, rear axle and some nice rims to boot.

 

If the OP has their heart set on the van, spend some personal time and money and go physically look at it. Pictures and technology cannot represent the real condition, your eyes and knowledge are by far much superior.

 

I realize your business is moving vehicles for others but the reality is there is no substitute for the buyer going and physically inspecting before agreeing to buying.

[Trulyvintage]

58 minutes ago, ABear said:

Your example isn't really much of "technology" but more of "common sense".

 

The problem is today, we have way to much reliance on "technology" and zero common sense.

 

Relying on a third party (IE mechanic that neither party knows) takes a lot of trust that the mechanic is number one, HONEST, number two RELIABLE, number three, has done a thorough time consuming examination on the subject vehicle.

 

Technology does make it possible

to do a live inspection between

a Seller and a prospective Buyer

and/or their mechanic.

 

Every vehicle is unique and different.

So is every Buyer and Seller.

It is up to the Seller to locate

a qualified and trusted mechanic

to do the live video inspection 

I referenced in my post.

 

 

Jim

 

[TAKerry]

Could be legit. I can very well seeing someone 'leaving a vehicle' to their church, or even donating it. The church may have no need for a vehicle but the proceeds from the sale may fund a mission trip, soup kitchen etc. On the other hand it may have  been a church bus, that is either outdated or no longer of use and again, the proceeds mean more than the vehicle. I dont think I would give up too easy if its a van you have been looking for that fits the bill. But, I would proceed with caution being its long distance.

[ABear]

19 minutes ago, Trulyvintage said:

Technology does make it possible

to do a live inspection between

a Seller and a prospective Buyer

and/or their mechanic.

Video and/or pictures LIE.

 

Even the very best video cameras cannot see many fine details that ones eyes can see.

 

I can easily make a rust bucket look like a million dollars just by changing lighting to hide certain details or change depth of field on the camera. Many, many ways to fool a camera.

 

Very, very difficult to hide imperfections when you are physically present.

 

Not to mention the OP does seem concerned that the vehicle in question may be a scam.. They should be concerned, as every scam depends on remote sales pitches and many, many excuses as to why you CAN'T view in person..

[60FlatTop]

10 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

I asked for the name of the church and got a photo of part of the title showing the V.I.N.

Just reading that makes things sound kind of cryptic. If you ask for the name of the church and get a picture of part of the title that is the point where my interest wanes.

 

Is this communication taking place through email or Messenger? You really need to pick up the phone and talk with them. A real conversation allows me to ask enough questions to verify who I am dealing with.

 There is always a risk but the risk can be minimized.

 

I have bought quite a few cars online and sight unseen during this century. All met or exceeded the sellers description. A couple did turn out to be what I wanted. I sold them.

 

It may be a combination of my questioning skills and willingness to take a calculated risk but I haven't seen the fraud that has been written in the news. And when I did see those articles there were quite large "DANGER" signs.  One thing, if a seller mistrusts me I figure they look at untrustworthy in the mirror often.

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, Terry Bond said:

I think George just wants some way to confirm it's legit and not some kind of scam. 

...I'm wondering if the seller has legal right to act as their agent.

I agree.  The more I think about it, the more

I wonder about its legitimacy.  A buyer MUST

talk to the church to make sure it's legitimate--

and make sure the person reputed to represent

the church is really with the church.

 

George, the original poster, is well versed in the

hobby.  He likely doesn't need the instruction to

see the car for himself, or debates on the scarcity

of that particular vehicle.  We all wish him the best! 

 

 

[Mark Gregush]

Could try a carfax.com search on the VIN number. 

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle-history-reports?partner=YMO_6&click=sem&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=71700000046294452&utm_term=p39963669579&&msclkid=306a2460ff121cbbad4a420481484b07&gclid=306a2460ff121cbbad4a420481484b07&gclsrc=3p.ds

By the way, are they asking for payment with eBay gift cards and saying eBay will handle the sale? 

Edited June 8 by Mark Gregush (see edit history)

[George Smolinski]

19 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

I agree.  The more I think about it, the more

I wonder about its legitimacy.  A buyer MUST

talk to the church to make sure it's legitimate--

and make sure the person reputed to represent

the church is really with the church.

 

George, the original poster, is well versed in the

hobby.  He likely doesn't need the instruction to

see the car for himself, or debates on the scarcity

of that particular vehicle.  We all wish him the best! 

 

 

John,

Thank you! So far, I've received few if any answers to my inquiries. Here are the 2 original questions:

1. Does anyone here have the ability to find out the owner's name, etc. using the V.I.N.?

2. Also, does anyone here live in or near Modesto, CA? The van is about a 15 minute drive from Modesto.

At the risk of offending some people here, I don't need advice on how to avoid scams, insight into how one can't use a V.I.N. to find an owner, the best way to communicate with the seller, etc., etc. Soooooo, I'll repeat myself:

Does anyone here have the ability to find a vehicle owner's name by using a V.I.N.? This is a yes or no question. If you answer yes, can you help me with this van?

Does anyone here live in or near Modesto, CA? This is a yes or no question. If yes, can you help me by going and looking at this van for me? I will gladly reimburse you for your time and expenses. The van is about a 15 minute drive from Modesto.

 

Thank you to all who replied so far, but I still need answers to my questions.

 

[wayne sheldon]

On 6/7/2024 at 2:09 PM, ABear said:

Video and/or pictures LIE.

 

Even the very best video cameras cannot see many fine details that ones eyes can see.

 

I can easily make a rust bucket look like a million dollars just by changing lighting to hide certain details or change depth of field on the camera. Many, many ways to fool a camera.

 

Very, very difficult to hide imperfections when you are physically present.

 

 

Absolutely!

As a used to was communications contractor that did a lot of work with cutting edge video systems? I can hardly ever see a television commercial without seeing where they used lighting or other forms of misdirection and often both to completely change the reality. 

 

One of the jobs we did was provide special cameras and remote control equipment to a new cutting edge (then) surgical radiation center to treat cancer. Patients spent very little actual time in the facility, whereas doctors and staff had to be there many hours of every day. The doctors and staff could not be in the surgery room due to cumulative exposure risks. Patients had to be strapped down onto the table, while surgery itself was monitored by doctors through extremely high definition cameras. Much of the actual surgery was actually performed by computers, but doctors needed to be able to intercede if necessary.

During the testing phase of the monitoring system, I in the control room, zoomed in and counted the ridges on a test subjects fingerprints! I also zoomed in beneath his ear and counted his heartbeats by the pulsations of the artery there. Fascinating stuff!

 

Lighting of course was very important.

 

My apologies George S, Those sort of computer and search skills, I do not possess.

 

[PAV8427]

If by chance you have seen a license plate, drop by NAPA. Not sure what info they can provide, but depending on state, license plate is tied more to owner than vehicle. 
 

[George Smolinski]

Here is the title. I'll be calling the church tomorrow. NOW can someone go look at it for me?

[CChinn]

I live on the east coast so I am not offering to look at the van for you, but I grew up in the SF Bay Area and worked for a few years in the CA Central Valley. Your 1st post says the van is owned by a church and the van is located in Turlock, CA. The title lists the Church address in Hayward, CA which is in the SF Bay Area. Turlock is located in the CA Central Valley about 81 miles away. Is there a disconnect here WRT location of the church and Van?  Maybe something to ask when you call the church. 

P.S.  If no one here offers to look at the car for you, do you want it enough to fly out and inspect the car yourself?  There are plenty of flights between MN and CA

Edited June 10 by CChinn (see edit history)

[George Smolinski]

I called the church listed on the title today and talked to the pastor. They didn't use the van much so they sold it. He said they let it go cheap because the roof was all rusty. The seller must have fixed it up and now is flipping it. Van only has 25,000 miles. seller wants $15000. I'll pass.

[ABear]

15 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

I called the church listed on the title today and talked to the pastor. They didn't use the van much so they sold it. He said they let it go cheap because the roof was all rusty. The seller must have fixed it up and now is flipping it. Van only has 25,000 miles. seller wants $15000. I'll pass.

As it has been said, "there is always more to the story" and often a lot of the story is left out and glossed over.

 

That isn't all that good of a deal considering condition it may have been in and I wouldn't want to deal with someone else's hack job in creative fixes.

 

Not a "rare" van at all, most likely upwards of 400K+ built per yr and many Churches often bought them in passenger configurations and they typically are used once or twice a week for short distances meaning they will have very low miles.. However that low mileage often means it will have rust issues or other issues from sitting around for long periods. This is similar to what happens with most RV Motor homes, easy to find 20-30yr old Motor Homes with 40K or less but have engine/transmission issues plus weather related rust/rot due to sitting still most of it's life..

 

Find a decent deal close to home, even one with 100K miles might end up being far better condition and reliable.

[30DodgePanel]

On 6/7/2024 at 8:12 AM, George Smolinski said:

Not hardly. It's older and very low miles.

 

Hey George, 

I'd like to know where some on here claim to know the total production figures. Maybe you (or they) can enlighten us  

 

 

On 6/11/2024 at 9:50 AM, ABear said:

 most likely upwards of 400K+ built per yr

 

What hat did you pull that rabbit out of? 
Wait... I don't even want to know.