tips for restoration

[aberdeen09]

my grandpa has multiple old cars, from between 1909-1956. they all need restoration and need a lot of work. if anybody wants to know what cars, then i will tell names and year of the ones i know, but for others i will need to ask my grandpa. so please, if you have any tips, let me know and i will pass the word to my grandpa.

[Tom Boehm]

Participants on this forum are eager to help young people learn about old cars. Your question is way too broad and we need to know a lot more to guide you. This is a start:

1. what are the names and years of the cars

2. do any of them run?  are they driveable?

3. what condition are they? dents, rust holes, rust in the floors, etc.

4. what do you want to accomplish?

5. what are your skills?   Have you or your grandpa repaired cars before?

[alsancle]

Pick the most cherished one and sell the rest.

[trimacar]

45 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Pick the most cherished one and sell the rest.

Agreed, and put the money towards restoring the kept one.

 

Unless rare cars, it might come out even if you’re lucky.

 

Jealous, I’d love to own one of my grandfather’s cars.

[aberdeen09]

5 hours ago, Tom Boehm said:

Participants on this forum are eager to help young people learn about old cars. Your question is way too broad and we need to know a lot more to guide you. This is a start:

1. what are the names and years of the cars

2. do any of them run?  are they driveable?

3. what condition are they? dents, rust holes, rust in the floors, etc.

4. what do you want to accomplish?

5. what are your skills?   Have you or your grandpa repaired cars before?

1.  i only know a few but i can ask if him for the names of the others. there is a 1927 Buick coupe, a 1956 Thunderbird and corvette, a 27-28 Chevy roadster, a model a roadster,and a model a pickup, a 1930 Chevy delivery panel truck/van, and those are just the ones i know. 2. none of them run, except maybe one. 3. they are in all sorts of condition. 4. make them driveable and good looking enough. 5. i personally don't have much skills, and i have not really repaired cars before, and my grandpa kinda hasn't either, but he knows more. 

[1957Birdman]

I think alsancle offered some really good advice. For example, a non-running 1956 Thunderbird will generally be worth less than a non- running 1956 Corvette, assuming an equal condition for both cars. There are just more T-Birds out there than there are Corvettes in the 1955-57 range. Your best bet is to sell the T-Bird and use the proceeds to get the Corvette running and presentable, if possible. 

Focus on one car and you and your grandpa can then have a car to restore and enjoy. Otherwise, you just have a small wrecking yard.

 

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

[ramair]

5 hours ago, alsancle said:

Pick the most cherished one and sell the rest.

Listen to Uncle AJ. He speaks the truth, if only if he would have given me this advice earlier!

seriously when I first started playing with antique cars, trucks and tractors I would start to fix one by tearing apart until I saw a problem, then I would tear another one apart, so on and so forth.  
now that is a recipe for disaster, I have been playing with this stuff for 50 years , the first 25 pulling stuff apart and the last 25 years trying to make up for the sins of my youth.  Please find the best one or the one with the most sentimental value, hopefully the one you chose is both.  Ask questions here and soon you will realize that we want you and your grandfather to succeed!

[aberdeen09]

he has been collecting for many years, and does not really want to get rid of them, especially since he has some or most parts for them.

[1957Birdman]

Aberdeen09, from what you say, your grandpa’s satisfaction in the hobby seems to be in finding cars, buying the cars and collecting the parts for those cars, not in actually restoring them. You haven’t mentioned how old your grandpa is, but speaking as someone over 70 years of age, I realize my limitations on what I can accomplish in whatever years I have left. If you want to get an idea of what it would take to restore one of his cars, look at the thread for 1960 MGA restoration. This gives you a pretty good idea of what it will take to restore a car that needs a complete restoration. Chris, the owner of that car, has put a lot of work into the car and it looks great today, but it took years to get it to this point. It will be a shame if your grandpa never has the satisfaction of restoring and driving even one of the cars that he collected over the years. 

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

[EThomas]

I fully agree to pick the one you like the most and go from there. That said, also consider the engineering behind it, the strength of the hobby community and the availability of parts. I own both a '30 Ford Model A and a '31 Chrysler CM6. I got the Model A first, as it really is a great "starter" car into pre-war vehicles and overall for enjoying vehicles as a hobby. I would not recommend the '31 Chrysler as a "starter" vehicle as it is very complicated - though engineered to a high standard.

 

You'll find the Model A to be quite simple, all things considered. There is a vast amount of knowledge that is easy to find and folks are extremely helpful. Parts are plentiful - to the point that you could order all the parts from a catalog and build one from the ground up. 

 

I'd recommend starting there and see if you like it and want to continue. It is a hobby after all. You have to enjoy it and look forward to tinkering around. If you don't, it'll be a frustrating and painful experience. You have to love the car and it has to be something you look forward to building a friendship with.

 

No matter which one you choose, research the car. Research the community. Research the parts availability. Take an honest look at your skills and if you want to add to them.

[ABear]

9 hours ago, aberdeen09 said:

he has been collecting for many years, and does not really want to get rid of them, especially since he has some or most parts for them.

He is not "ready" to sell then.

 

He may never be ready to sell.

 

Better approach is identify ONE vehicle that he really likes (perhaps you also like) the best and spend some time with him getting to a running state.. Doesn't have to be perfect, just running. Make it a you and him time getting it running. I really miss my Dad and I really cherish the time I spent with him often up to my arm pits in grease and oil and even the dusty cruddy work of sandblasting and paint. You cannot put a price on together time.

 

Once he is gone, it will be those good memories you will have to reflect back on.

 

Once you get it to a running state, take him for a drive or he is able have him take you for a drive.

[aberdeen09]

2 hours ago, 1957Birdman said:

Aberdeen09, from what you say, your grandpa’s satisfaction in the hobby seems to be in finding cars, buying the cars and collecting the parts for those cars, not in actually restoring them. You haven’t mentioned how old your grandpa is, but speaking as someone over 70 years of age, I realize my limitations on what I can accomplish in whatever years I have left. If you want to get an idea of what it would take to restore one of his cars, look at the thread for 1960 MGA restoration. This gives you a pretty good idea of what it will take to restore a car that needs a complete restoration. Chris, the owner of that car, has put a lot of work into the car and it looks great today, but it took years to get it to this point. It will be a shame if your grandpa never has the satisfaction of restoring and driving even one of the cars that he collected over the years. 

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

i agree with that, and you said your over 70, as he is, and i do want to help him make one, or some driveable. but i don't have very much time,and he doesn't either, but i will use all the time i can to look into some of the more, put together cars.

[ABear]

10 minutes ago, aberdeen09 said:

i agree with that, and you said your over 70, as he is, and i do want to help him make one, or some driveable. but i don't have very much time,and he doesn't either, but i will use all the time i can to look into some of the more, put together cars.

My Dad was still wrenching on vehicles up until he was in his mid 80's, was 93 when he passed, even in his 90's wanted to wrench but he couldn't see very well and memory was pretty faded on how to do things..

 

Make as much time as you can get to spend time with him even if you never get anything running, I was very young when my Grand Dad passed, don't remember much of him other then a few pictures. Would have loved to had time to spend with my Grand Dad when I was older and could have more memories than photos.

 

Basically, you need the bare minimum like a running engine and transmission, steering, brakes and tires that hold air to just have a fun yard buggy. For a yard buggy it doesn't even have to run perfect as long as you can safely steer ans top. Anything above that is bonus material.

[aberdeen09]

11 minutes ago, ABear said:

My Dad was still wrenching on vehicles up until he was in his mid 80's, was 93 when he passed, even in his 90's wanted to wrench but he couldn't see very well and memory was pretty faded on how to do things..

 

Make as much time as you can get to spend time with him even if you never get anything running, I was very young when my Grand Dad passed, don't remember much of him other then a few pictures. Would have loved to had time to spend with my Grand Dad when I was older and could have more memories than photos.

 

Basically, you need the bare minimum like a running engine and transmission, steering, brakes and tires that hold air to just have a fun yard buggy. For a yard buggy it doesn't even have to run perfect as long as you can safely steer ans top. Anything above that is bonus material.

Yeah i agree with getting a running engine and the vital stuff like that, get it running, driveable, and worry abut other stuff later, such as interior and stuff.

[Zimm63]

First and most fundamental step.  

 

Figure out the paperwork and make sure its in Grandpa's name.   Last thing you want to do is put time and money into a car that has no title, or a skipped title in the name of somebody who died 40 years ago.  

 

Proof of ownership is job one.  

 

[aberdeen09]

58 minutes ago, Zimm63 said:

First and most fundamental step.  

 

Figure out the paperwork and make sure its in Grandpa's name.   Last thing you want to do is put time and money into a car that has no title, or a skipped title in the name of somebody who died 40 years ago.  

 

Proof of ownership is job one.  

 

ok, i will talk to him about that

[aberdeen09]

he says he tries to keep careful records of everything.

[Zimm63]

3 hours ago, aberdeen09 said:

he says he tries to keep careful records of everything.

Thats a non answer.  He may have records, and they may be complete.   If he didn't take the final step to have title transferred into his name, however, its still a problem.  Probably solvable, but a problem none the less.  

[aberdeen09]

yeah i agree, he said something about applying for a lost title, or something like that.

[Tom Boehm]

I'm picking up a lot of wishfull thinking from both Aberdeen and his grandfather. Aberdeen has some significant odds against him at the start of this project. Everyone wants you to succeed. Here is a recap of good advice from previous posts:

1. You must have a title in your grandpa's name for any car you start to work on. Without a title you cannot license a car after you get it running to drive on the streets. 

2. Pick a car from the collection that has a title in your grandpa's name. 

3. Pick ONE car to focus on. 

4. Of the cars you mentioned, I would suggest starting with one of the Model A Fords, the Thunderbird, or the Corvette. Compared to the other cars you mentioned, these cars have better parts availability. Knowledge about how to work on these cars is more abundant and more easily accessible for inexperienced restorers than the other cars you mentioned. 

 

Others may want to chime in with their opinions on Number 4. 

[alsancle]

5 minutes ago, Tom Boehm said:

I'm picking up a lot of wishfull thinking from both Aberdeen and his grandfather. Aberdeen has some significant odds against him at the start of this project. Everyone wants you to succeed. Here is a recap of good advice from previous posts:

1. You must have a title in your grandpa's name for any car you start to work on. Without a title you cannot license a car after you get it running to drive on the streets. 

2. Pick a car from the collection that has a title in your grandpa's name. 

3. Pick ONE car to focus on. 

4. Of the cars you mentioned, I would suggest starting with one of the Model A Fords, the Thunderbird, or the Corvette. Compared to the other cars you mentioned, these cars have better parts availability. Knowledge about how to work on these cars is more abundant and more easily accessible for inexperienced restorers than the other cars you mentioned. 

 

Others may want to chime in with their opinions on Number 4. 

I think we all like to be cheerleaders. But also there’s a lot of wisdom here, and we have seen long history of failed projects for a variety of reasons. Restoring a car these days is a monumental task they can take years. Even those of us that theoretically know what we’re doing end up being shocked at how long and expensive it is.

[aberdeen09]

ok, thank you for that, both of you. i will ask him, and let him know the other pieces of advice you gave me

[EThomas]

On 5/3/2024 at 6:43 AM, alsancle said:

I think we all like to be cheerleaders. But also there’s a lot of wisdom here, and we have seen long history of failed projects for a variety of reasons. Restoring a car these days is a monumental task they can take years. Even those of us that theoretically know what we’re doing end up being shocked at how long and expensive it is.

This!
 

100 percent. All day long and twice on Sunday.

 

I purchased my Chrysler out of a museum, already restored. Unfortunately, it sat for 30 years on display. The cosmetics are damn near perfect.
 

That said, I put almost the full purchase price back into her to get her mechanically restored. It took almost a year and to say it was stressful and overwhelming is an understatement. Sometimes, this hobby isn’t for the faint of heart.

[alsancle]

25 minutes ago, EThomas said:

This!
 

100 percent. All day long and twice on Sunday.

 

I purchased my Chrysler out of a museum, already restored. Unfortunately, it sat for 30 years on display. The cosmetics are damn near perfect.
 

That said, I put almost the full purchase price back into her to get her mechanically restored. It took almost a year and to say it was stressful and overwhelming is an understatement. Sometimes, this hobby isn’t for the faint of heart.

 

Got a buddy that bought a car that has a multi-hundreds of thousand dollar restoration by a top shop and was a Pebble Beach class award winner.   He is now 3 years and hundreds of hours in on sorting it.   No cosmetics,  just mechanical sorting.   Granted, a complicated big prewar car but still...

[Tom Boehm]

Whether or not Aberdeen's family can afford to put money toward getting one of these cars running was never brought up in this thread. Grandpa is reluctant to sell any of the cars to get money for this project. We do know neither Aberdeen or his Grandpa have much time or much knowledge. Grandpa doesn't seem to have the drive to change any of that. 

Edited May 4 by Tom Boehm (see edit history)

[Swear57]

Hope these car's are inside. Aberdeen is a wet place, any of the open top car's will be very badly rusted inside.

 

 

 

[ABear]

2 hours ago, Swear57 said:

Hope these car's are inside. Aberdeen is a wet place, any of the open top car's will be very badly rusted inside.

 

 

 

How true those words are and applies pretty much anywhere in the world if they have been stored outside over dirt in a field..

 

Hopefully the OP can find one that has a frame that isn't rotted out, everything else like floor pans and sheet metal can over time be replaced but to even make a nice fun buggy to just drive around in the field one must start with a frame that is solid..

[ABear]

6 hours ago, Tom Boehm said:

Whether or not Aberdeen's family can afford to put money toward getting one of these cars running was never brought up in this thread.

Very valid point!

 

Cost to restore is going to depend on the condition of engine and transmission when parked and as long as engine and transmission have been protected from water intrusion might not be locked up.

 

Finding one that the engine is not locked up or badly damaged when parked would to me be a very high consideration for the project.. One can get a lot of money tied up in fixing a stuck engine or transmission..

 

May get lucky and only need a battery, fresh oil change and a splash of fuel and get an engine to light off along with tires and brake parts.. A full on restoration is a whole different monkey..

[Tom Boehm]

In the old car hobby "getting lucky" means a $200 battery, $50 oil change, $500 + set of tires, and hundreds more for brake parts. 

[alsancle]

5 minutes ago, Tom Boehm said:

In the old car hobby "getting lucky" means a $200 battery, $50 oil change, $500 + set of tires, and hundreds more for brake parts. 

Last time I bought 6 tires, tubes and liners it was 1600 bucks.   Those are the same tires that go on a 5k car or a 500k car.

[ABear]

3 minutes ago, Tom Boehm said:

In the old car hobby "getting lucky" means a $200 battery, $50 oil change, $500 + set of tires, and hundreds more for brake parts. 

I call that "cheap entertainment" now days, heck, that is less cost than a pair of tickets in the nose bleed section of any sports arena for any organized professional sport plus fuel to get there and parking cost plus food and drinks. Even for every day items like food, I count myself lucky if I can get out of a store with under $200 in cost for food and that is for TWO people per week.

 

There is nothing now days cheap if you are always looking at the cost factor, but sometimes when there is a possible time for family bond type activities one can't always put a price on that.

 

Wish I could have more time to spend with my Grand Dad, he passed too early and I was too young, my Cousins are older and they remember him a lot more than I do..

[Tom Boehm]

In response to Alsancle:    I thought he might get really lucky and Wal Mart Douglas would make the tire size  he needs. 😁

Edited May 4 by Tom Boehm (see edit history)

[ABear]

7 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Last time I bought 6 tires, tubes and liners it was 1600 bucks.   Those are the same tires that go on a 5k car or a 500k car.

Actually, that isn't all that bad for what it is now days. Try pricing out tires for modern day vehicles, recently had to buy two new tires for a 2020 F250 and that cost just under $700 ($330 Each plus mount/balance/taxes)  so for all four would have been $1400..

[alsancle]

17 minutes ago, ABear said:

Actually, that isn't all that bad for what it is now days. Try pricing out tires for modern day vehicles, recently had to buy two new tires for a 2020 F250 and that cost just under $700 ($330 Each plus mount/balance/taxes)  so for all four would have been $1400..

I'm a little out of touch.  I just looked on Coker and the 700-20 tires are now 363 a piece.   The tubes came from England and were not cheap 3 years ago.   So I guess I would be looking at 2500 bucks for the same purchase.

 

There is not such thing as "getting lucky" anymore.

[Lee H]

On 5/3/2024 at 7:36 AM, Tom Boehm said:

4. Of the cars you mentioned, I would suggest starting with one of the Model A Fords, the Thunderbird, or the Corvette

Agree with the Model A. There is a strong parts supply, and two strong clubs that are everywhere, and very helpful and non-judgmental. Nothing complicated, backyard mechanics have been putting them back on the road for years. One of the cheapest and easiest ways to get into the prewar old car hobby.

[m-mman]

11 hours ago, Tom Boehm said:

Whether or not Aberdeen's family can afford to put money toward getting one of these cars running was never brought up in this thread

Aberdeen, the comments about focusing on ONE come from information that has not yet been discussed.  

A car that was “running when parked” and stored inside so no major issues happened (stuck engine) will need $2000 to $5000 IN PARTS to make it reliable.  
Fuel system, cooling systems, brakes, tires, electrical issues…..etc. 

 

I have good car skills, knowledge, tools and a place to work.  For me I estimate about 150 to 300 hours to make a long parked car operational again. (that’s 3-6 months of work) 

 

While old cars are brought to life quickly and cheaply on the TV shows, they have nothing to do with reality.  
 

The suggestions to dig into ONE and make the goal of spending time with grandpa not necessarily “ restoring a car” are spot on.  
Cars are a hobby, a hobby is the expenditure of time and money to have fun.  Have fun with your family. 

[Tom Boehm]

m-mman, I recently took a car out of 20 year indoor storage and sorted it. Your scenario is spot on. 

[Tom Boehm]

"Tools and a place to work" are two other very important issues not yet mentioned in this thread. 

 

I have posted more in this thread than I normally do. I perceive Aberdeen 09 to be about 15 years old (born 2009 ?). I think he has a lot of enthusiasm about his grandpa's cars but doesn't know the right questions to ask. I hope this thread will help him to succeed rather than being a wet blanket on his enthusiasm.

Edited May 5 by Tom Boehm (see edit history)

[ABear]

15 hours ago, m-mman said:

A car that was “running when parked” and stored inside so no major issues happened (stuck engine) will need $2000 to $5000 IN PARTS to make it reliable.  
Fuel system, cooling systems, brakes, tires, electrical issues…..etc. 

This all depends on many factors, condition when parked, how long it has been parked, what it has been parked over or if it was covered..

 

Some older cars that have a strong following also have decent parts support and decent prices on the parts. Model As are one in that category..

 

For instance, you can get new tires depending on the size as low as $104 each not including tubes, not bad.

 

HERE

 

6V battery for Model A, $210 (which could be used in other 6V vehicles)

 

HERE

 

Ignition parts are available at reasonable prices, Points an condenser for under $40

 

HERE

 

There are many different carbs which can be adapted to work and not all of them cost a mint..

 

Complete rebuilt brakes can be had reasonably for as low as $200/pair and drums for about $100 each

 

HERE

 

Maybe $1700 or a bit more if you simply use the "shot gun" approach by blindly replacing all those parts before really just accessing the needs.

 

But that is "assuming" everything needs replaced.. In reality some parts will require to be replaced, some parts may only need some refurbishment and not replaced. Just depends on the rust level or how worn out some parts are.

 

Never just blindly replace parts without actually assessing condition..

 

I get it, many on the forum go for full on restoration mode which does cost dearly, but that makes the hobby unreachable or unobtainable for many. But when you lower the restoration to just getting it in safe running condition that costs goes down considerably to a easier to obtain level..

 

OP did not ask about cost, that is the OPs concern, not mine, only the OP knows what they can afford but in the end even if they spend some money and the project never goes anywhere and they get to spend time with their Grand Father what is the harm of that?

[Rivguy]

I will put in my 5 cents worth. Pick a car from the 1950's, something that will be driveable in modern traffic and can actually be used. I think that Model As  are not something that will appeal to a young person, and will not be something that they would want to drive. I lean towards the T Bird and Corvette, but we don't know the condition of any of them. It sounds like Gramps was collecting projects for his retirement, and he sure has plenty! I'm going to be 70 this year, I've got four good running cars and I can't drive each one enough to keep the batteries charged. Pick one that the Grandson is interested in, as he may inherit it someday. I know that my kids will not want any of my cars, they don't have the space, or time, and would prefer to spend their money in other ways.  Best of luck, and keep in touch on this forum.