1935Packard Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I'm an HCCA member and I'm interested in buying an early brass era car, which would be my first pre-1930 car. I'm trying to avoid a car with a total loss oil system, however, as it sounds like the kind of mess that would make my wife and the neighbors a bit unhappy with me. I was wondering, what are some of the earlier cars that don't have total loss oil systems? Thanks in advance for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanician Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Depending on what you intend on doing with the car, I would rate other features as more pressing. None of them had seals in the modern sense, all of them leaked. Model Ts were always splash lubricated as were others that lack oilers, they didn’t have oil pumps but they weren’t once through either. But they leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 5 hours ago, mechanician said: Depending on what you intend on doing with the car, I would rate other features as more pressing. None of them had seals in the modern sense, all of them leaked. Model Ts were always splash lubricated as were others that lack oilers, they didn’t have oil pumps but they weren’t once through either. But they leak. Thanks for the reply! I guess I should ask a different question: Are there any early brass cars that leak less than others? I get that they all leak some, but it's not going to work if the car leaves a trail of oil in the driveway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 My general rule of thumb on early cars is that if they are not leaking something is wrong. They all mark their territory. That is why there are large pieces of cardboard. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3makes Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1935Packard, maybe it would be easier to find new neighbors and a new wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panza Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 boxes of cat litter will be cheaper than a new house/wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mead Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Any c 1912 car with oil you add to the crankcase rather than a separate oiler, and a center cane top loader transmission will probably leak the least. Transaxles and side lever transmissions might offend. Your experience may differ….. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 (edited) Thanks, all. To be clear, I don't care if it leaks in the garage. My 1930s cars do that, it's fine. My concern is leaking oil while driving, on the driveway and on the road. Anyway, thanks for the replies! Edited February 8 by 1935Packard (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanician Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 The closest answer to your original question may be a later brass era Franklin, although I can't comment on the leak situation. At least they won't leak water. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLF Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 When rebuilt right a lot can be done to reduce the amount of oil leakage. My 14 Model T roadster barely leaks at all. I'm continually checking the oil to make sure it's full. Now my 12 Oakland on the other hand... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mead Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Ken, just curious, from where does your Oakland leak mostly ? Other Oaklands same way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLF Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 I can't say if other Oaklands leak that much. On mine I need to dump the sump oil after every couple of hundred miles or so. Easy to do just open 4 petcocks on the pan and it drops the oil down to the correct level. that prevents a lot of the dripping. When I forget though, and the oil level gets too high, then it drips out the rear main quite a bit. The old transmissions are also tough to seal as they mainly used felt seals. There's always some dripping from them. However I've driven my Oakland now since 1988 and I've never felt the oil dripping to be an issue. Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 What crop is growing in the background of your Oakland picture. What size is your Oakland? I hear good things about that make and you must be satisfied as you have a long term relationship with her. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLF Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Hi Al Recovered yet from the Nickel tour?? We were in wine country in the interior of BC and those are grape vines. There was lots of smoke from forest fires at the time so you can't see Okanagan Lake in the background. My Oakland is a Model 40 so it's a midsize car. Runs very well and starts easily on the hand crank. I've never installed a modern electric starter on it. I restored it in 1987 and put more than 20000 miles on it over the years. Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) Hello KLF..... Yes, my wife and I had a real good time on the Nickel Tour and yes we recovered nicely. The following week we flew to Newport News Virginia for another fun filled week of vacation. That Va. vacation took a bit more time to recover from but certainly was a good time. Have you heard of anyone willing to sponsor the 2024 Nickel Era tour? How about you folks?????? I was intrigued by your picture showing your nice Oakland but also with the grapes in the background. I have been bringing back into production my Grand-dads old orchard that was started around 1895. I started one full row of Jupiter purple seedless table grapes and some green seedless. I am configuring my arbor a bit different than those in your picture. I am also planting my grapes on 8' centers. Your picture shows what looks like 3' centers. Back to your Oakland, what is the MFG. of your brass lamps, they look terrific against your green color. Al Edited February 10 by alsfarms spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mead Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Beautiful colors and cowl/dash on the Oakland. I may be cheating here a bit, but I’m needing a pair of nickel gas headlights, 7 1/4 inch between posts, or thereabouts….. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Jim, Do you know what MFG. your nickel plated lamps should be? I am guessing your project car is a 1912-13-14? More information would help us. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mead Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I do not know. 1912 Babcock Touring. it came with 5 brass lamps. Nickel windshield and radiator and other small bits. I have found a great pair of G&D side lamps and a better tail light. Have a bulb horn I think I can make work. Thanks for your interest and help ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Jim, Gray & Davis would be a good MFG. to look for nickel gas headlamps. That way they would match the cowl lamps you have located. Post a picture so we can see what series the Gray & Davis side lights are. What is your taillight? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) Going back to the original question...a true "total loss" system would be very early. Virtually all the brass cars you are likely to encounter will have some form of circulating oil system or a mechanical oiler that fed at least the main bearings and probably the piston walls and cam bearings. I think of it as a "modified" total loss system in that you filled the oiler and the oil collected in the crankcase. You then drained it every so many miles and started over. That said, they all weep oil. The salient factor is the seals which were usually felt or leather. Those seals worked well but often aren't available today in the sizes you might need so in order to replace them you have to make them. It isn't hard to make felt seals but it does take some thought and I suspect that 90% of the "restored" cars, especially those that leak a lot, are running old, dried out and worn seals. Leather seals were much like their modern counterparts, in fact some are still leather. (CR stands for Chicago Rawhide). You are more likely to find a modern replacement for a leather seal but even there some adaptation may be required. In a collecting world that values perfect paint far more than the mechanical aspects of antique cars the chance that the seals are defective is something that should be taken into consideration. They didn't spew oil when they were new...although the underside of the engine was likely a bit wet. Crankshafts usually had slingers or rope seals but they simply couldn't have leaked prodigiously or the clutch would have stopped working. The same is true for the rear axle...if the seals failed the brakes would stop working. Edited February 11 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Pierce Arrow had a drip feed system with a pump that returned the oil to the reservoir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLF Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 2/10/2024 at 12:49 PM, alsfarms said: Yes, my wife and I had a real good time on the Nickel Tour and yes we recovered nicely. The following week we flew to Newport News Virginia for another fun filled week of vacation. That Va. vacation took a bit more time to recover from but certainly was a good time. Have you heard of anyone willing to sponsor the 2024 Nickel Era tour? How about you folks?????? I was intrigued by your picture showing your nice Oakland but also with the grapes in the background. I have been bringing back into production my Grand-dads old orchard that was started around 1895. I started one full row of Jupiter purple seedless table grapes and some green seedless. I am configuring my arbor a bit different than those in your picture. I am also planting my grapes on 8' centers. Your picture shows what looks like 3' centers. Back to your Oakland, what is the MFG. of your brass lamps, they look terrific against your green color. Al Edited yesterday at 12:50 PM by alsfarms It looks like there won't be a Nickel tour this year. Hopefully it will come back in 2025. My Oakland is actually painted a 1976 Volvo blue. The Oakland came in either blue or green. I like blue cars. (remember my blue 31 Chrysler??) The lamps are all CM Hall Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodneybeauchamp Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 On 2/7/2024 at 10:47 AM, 1935Packard said: I'm an HCCA member and I'm interested in buying an early brass era car, which would be my first pre-1930 car. I'm trying to avoid a car with a total loss oil system, however, as it sounds like the kind of mess that would make my wife and the neighbors a bit unhappy with me. I was wondering, what are some of the earlier cars that don't have total loss oil systems? Thanks in advance for the help. I saw a recent video of an early Buick that had a “diaper” style drain pan fitted underneath the engine to catch the spills. Appeared to be held on with adjustable leather straps in each corner similar to a belt buckle. It caught my eye as it swayed a bit as the Buick started off. No doubt the owner sees this as a way to control the mess and could be incorporated on many of the earlier vehicles. And no doubt organisers of shows would be appreciative also. Just my two bobs worth Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 4/2/2024 at 2:04 AM, rodneybeauchamp said: I saw a recent video of an early Buick that had a “diaper” style drain pan fitted underneath the engine to catch the spills. Appeared to be held on with adjustable leather straps in each corner similar to a belt buckle. It caught my eye as it swayed a bit as the Buick started off. Those were known as belly pans and they were not there to catch drips of oil, but to try to keep the mud and such from being splashed up in the engine area. Remember at that time virtually all of the roads were dirt when dry and MUD when it rained. As the roads got better they eventually went away. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Very few brass cars still have their belly pans although virtually all of them did originally. I once had a 1910 REO that had one. It was attached with spring loaded "eyes" that could be pulled down and turned to line up with a slot making it quite easy to take off but I confess I never put it back on once I took it off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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