MrEarl Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) Considering having the front cloth seats of my ‘79 Estate Wagon Limited reupholstered. The rears are vinyl and in perfect condition. The fronts cloth is tattered and foam badly deteriorated. SMS sent a sample but it’s not matching my existing nor the ‘79 color/trim book. I’m actually seeing some hint of green in it. At $140 a yard I for dang sure want it to be correct. My other concern is that they only sent the one “striped” sample and my seats have tan striped velour on top and plain lighter tan velour on sides. The trim book doesn’t mention this Im assuming the non striped material would be the Crushed Velour in tan as shown in blue below. I’ve been to three upholstery shops and none have samples close to the striped velour. The plain tan, maybe close enough. Are there any other fabric vendors that can come close to the original at a lower cost. I found an interesting vendor on Etsy that claims to have bought out a large shop that went out of business. https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheEstateStash?search_query=vintage+gold+plush+velour+auto+upholstery They have 2-3 of the '79 Buick striped velour but not in the tan. I've requested several samples of plain tan that I think will be close enough, we'll see. Their prices are less than half that of sms but have limited quantities Edited January 14 by MrEarl (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I thought you were swapping-in the front seat from a donor car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, EmTee said: I thought you were swapping-in the front seat from a donor car? After purchasing and getting it home and seeing the two side by side I just don’t think they’re close enough to pass. I may still use them if I can’t find satisfactory material at a reasonable cost. mine. note the tops aren’t bad but the bottoms are bad! Also there’s the complication that the controls are in the door armrest on the Limited and in the seat bottom sides of my Wagon. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Mr. Earl, when you went to the upholstery shops did you just ask if they had anything like what was in the car OR did they dig out their "Detroit" or "DeLeo" upholstery parts books of OEM upholstery fabrics and vinyls? If they'd dug out the old books for your model year, you would have seen the same things you are seeking to find, PLUS the "industry part number" for them, I suspect. With THAT information, they could go to their suppliers and seek some. Probably the same part numbers which SMS operates off of? Basically the "weave" trade name GM put on it, followed by the interior color codes listed in the OEM trim book. At this point in time, it would be "a find" to find a place with that fabric in stock. Unless the particular shop did a lot of Buick warranty repairs, they would not have any reason to have it as "left overs". It was possible for GM dealers to order the items as they had GM part numbers on them, but I suspect that was something where they'd refer the order to the fabric vendor, back then. Most dealerships had a relationship with a high-quality upholstery shop for warranty repairs, so they'd just take the car to them and let the shop deal with getting the fabrics and such for the repair. Good luck NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 (edited) @NTX5467 two of the shops had a couple small books of fabric. One had 3-4 books but nada of anything close to the original. Going to another that’s been in business since before they installed roll and pleat in my ‘57 Chevy back in ‘66. 🤞 Edited January 14 by MrEarl (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 The "Detroit" and "DeLeo" books are like 12"x18" or larger. Usually bigger than the OEM "Color and Trim" showroom books. Not a bunch of fabric swatches on a pair of 4" binder rings, like a Rolodex. Good Luck, NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmfconsult Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I wish I could help, but the only thing I can say is that the side material appears to be the same color and texture of my old 1978 Wagon. I think you've posted this over on the various FB groups for these cars, but if you haven't I recommend you try the 1977-1979 Buick Electra, Park Avenue, Lesabre, Riviera and Estate Wagon group as they are pretty knowledgeable. My guess is that this fabric appears to have been very durable, so not many of these seats had to be recovered... but $140/yard for "close"?! Yikes! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 On 1/14/2024 at 11:18 AM, MrEarl said: After purchasing and getting it home and seeing the two side by side I just don’t think they’re close enough to pass. I may still use them if I can’t find satisfactory material at a reasonable cost. mine. note the tops aren’t bad but the bottoms are bad! Also there’s the complication that the controls are in the door armrest on the Limited and in the seat bottom sides of my Wagon. I wonder if it is possible to patch the seat bottom vs a complete reupholster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 6 hours ago, dmfconsult said: I wish I could help, but the only thing I can say is that the side material appears to be the same color and texture of my old 1978 Wagon. I think you've posted this over on the various FB groups for these cars, but if you haven't I recommend you try the 1977-1979 Buick Electra, Park Avenue, Lesabre, Riviera and Estate Wagon group as they are pretty knowledgeable. My guess is that this fabric appears to have been very durable, so not many of these seats had to be recovered... but $140/yard for "close"?! Yikes! just joined. it is a heavy weight material, I would think typical of wagons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, JohnD1956 said: I wonder if it is possible to patch the seat bottom vs a complete reupholster? I’m considering that and that’s why I need a better sample, to see difference in fabrics or shades SMS replied they would send better samples 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 The "heavier fabric" is more related to the higher GM carline than specifically "wagons", I suspect. In the 1980s, we needed to get the seat fabric replaced on one of our cars. I had decided the "velour" in the downsized Caprices seemed to be long-lasting and there was a color which ended up matching dead-on, so we went to the upholstery shop the dealership used for their warranty work. There was a very experienced upholsterer there, too. I told him which fabric I was thinking about and showed him the color. He immediately said "there's something better" and went to pull out a bolt of fabric in the same identical color, but of heavier weight. He said "This is for a Pontiac", which is why it was twice as heavy in the weave. So that's what we used as he had it in stock. Cost about $1.00 more a yard. That fabric "wore like iron". Putting them side by side, there was NO comparison of which one was best. Just my experiences, NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K13 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I have bought from the ETSY account. They also go by https://www.deadstockautotrim.com/. They were helpful and shipped quickly. Other than them, unless you happen upon a upholster who has what you are looking for, SMS is about the only option these days. If you are not familiar with SMS be warned they have a reputation of not having the greatest customer service. They are quick to send out samples and take your money but can be very slow after that. Make absolutely sure they have what you are ordering in stock because they do make the fabrics themselves and can sometimes fail to mention they don't have it but will still take your money and having it made can literally take years. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 (edited) Got new samples from SMS and decided to just bite the bullet and go with having the seats fully reupholstered in lieu of using the seats from the Limited. I figured using the incorrect seats from the Limited would depreciate the value of the car probably about as much as having it done correctly would hopefully appreciate the value. Price had increased some 20% but asked for and received 10% discount with shipping expected within 2 weeks, we will see… Edited January 30 by MrEarl (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, MrEarl said: Got new samples from SMS and decided to just bite the bullet and go with having the seats fully reupholstered in lieu of using the seats from the Limited. I figured using the incorrect seats from the Limited would depreciate the value of the car probably about as much as having it done correctly would hopefully appreciate the value. Price had increased some 20% but asked for and received 10% discount with shipping expected within 2 weeks, we will see… Excellent! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Make sure that you get enough! It would suck to come up short... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 13 minutes ago, EmTee said: Make sure that you get enough! It would suck to come up short... Gotcha ordered a half yard more than what the upholsterer and Rita figured. Hopefully will have enough left over for Elvis a bed cover 😉 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I know Neal Morse ran into trouble with his '41 because the SMS fabric bolt wasn't the width that his upholsterer expected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, EmTee said: I know Neal Morse ran into trouble with his '41 because the SMS fabric bolt wasn't the width that his upholsterer expected. 👍Verified the width of 60” and Reet used that to calculate 🙏 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Is that price inline with what local shops charge for fabric? Is it the same "weight" as the OEM fabric appears to be? Just curious, NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I have been planning to reupholster my '60 Electra with SMS materials for a while but my priorities keep shifting. However, I have created a folder where I keep pictures, mostly '60 Buicks, reupholstered with the wrong material just as a reminder to not let price be a driving criteria. There are many significant moments in life. Some of mine are car related. Back in the early 1990s I went to look at a 1952ish Cadillac for sale. Nearly every consumable and wearing component had been replaced with what looked like J. C. Whitney "universal" parts. Weatherstrips, carpet, things that hit you right in the face. The old man admitted he had restored it himself and spent a lot of money. Thirty years ago and a lesson learned at someone else's expense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 11 hours ago, NTX5467 said: Is that price inline with what local shops charge for fabric? The three upholsterers I mentioned the fabric prices to were surprised at the cost. The one I’m going with commented “Well you for damn sure want it done right then don’t you” 11 hours ago, NTX5467 said: Is it the same "weight" as the OEM fabric appears to be? It does appear to be the same thickness and is a bit stiff. I’ve also asked the upholsterer to spare no cost in the foam padding. Any thoughts or recommendations on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 21 hours ago, NC-car-guy said: the incorrect seats from the Limited would depreciate the value of the car probably about as much as having it done correctly would hopefully appreciate the value. 24 minutes ago, MrEarl said: “Well you for damn sure want it done right then don’t you” There is an old saying: "How do you appraise a Bentley with a Rolls-Royce grille?" Simple "Bentley missing grille." If future appraisal were to play in: "How would you appraise a Buick with the wrong upholstery?" Would it be an issue equal in stature? Only to the owner who sees his second choice interior each time he gets in for the next 20 years and thinks "I saved $500 on materials". That's about 25 bucks a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 56 minutes ago, MrEarl said: I’ve also asked the upholsterer to spare no cost in the foam padding. Any thoughts or recommendations on that. I'd be more concerned about what is underneath than the foam itself. I am assuming we are talking about foam that is sewed into the covers, not the molded foam underneath. Back in the early 80s, for a premium job I would have used "2735", no longer made, and in the late 90s the supposed equivalent was "2935". Today I don't know. 2735/2935 was long lived, but stiffer than what the factory would have used sewn inside a cover. It was generally a non-problem, but looking at those pillow type seats, I'm not so sure. You may simply need to use something softer but less durable. What part failed? On a cover that has foam sewn in it, there is generally cloth underneath of some sort. On factory jobs, and especially of that period, it is probably going to be something completely inadequate like cheesecloth or scrim. I'm not sure how that plays out in a pillow seat though, I don't remember. I'd have to see inside. It's probably in there. On a normal pleated seat, the cloth underneath is what takes at least half the abuse when you sit on it. The backing cloth would be taking all the abuse if they notched the foam, and they should have. I imagine those pillow seats are similar. When the cloth below rips along a seam, and it will, then all the force of sitting is concentrated on the top cover right in that spot. It almost immediately rips along the same seam. Trying to temporarily repair it from above is futile, because all the force of sitting is concentrated right there. Some decking/ducking cloth, lightweight but strong, is far more appropriate for the backing cloth than whatever rubbish the automakers were using at that time. For better or worse, this may stiffen things up a little. In the interest of durability, I care about this far more than anything about the foam. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Not just "sitting", but ALL movement getting into place and exiting the seat. NTX5467 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 Wow, @Bloo that’s some great info. I take it you were in the business at some time. I might be able to talk with the upholsterer like I know something about what I’m talking about now, THANK YOU!!! I’ll try and get some pictures of my ratty seat bottoms so you can see better how the pillows currently are. Here’s a shot I just happened to grab on line of a 79 80k mile LeSabre, same upholstery as mine Btw one old guy that’s been in the business some 50 years took a look at my seats and immediately said nope, I don’t do cushion seats, period. Said to do them right, they’re some of the most aggravating work he ever did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 27 minutes ago, NTX5467 said: Not just "sitting", but ALL movement getting into place and exiting the seat. NTX5467 Thought you were going somewhere else with that for a second there….. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 hours ago, MrEarl said: I take it you were in the business at some time. I might be able to talk with the upholsterer like I know something about what I’m talking about now, THANK YOU!!! You're welcome, hope it helps. I'm no expert, but I did this for a living for a little while when I was a teenager. Outside of occasional small projects of my own, haven't done much of this since the mid 80s. 2 hours ago, MrEarl said: Btw one old guy that’s been in the business some 50 years took a look at my seats and immediately said nope, I don’t do cushion seats, period. Said to do them right, they’re some of the most aggravating work he ever did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 @Bloo some shots related to what you were talking about I think. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Yeah, that's about what I was talking about. It looks like that might have had significant sunrot, but might have let go along the seams anyway. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 1/31/2024 at 6:30 PM, MrEarl said: Btw one old guy that’s been in the business some 50 years took a look at my seats and immediately said nope, I don’t do cushion seats, period. Said to do them right, they’re some of the most aggravating work he ever did. I can see why. The multi-layer pillow-top cover is much more complicated to fabricate than a plain fabric cover. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 And to add another level of complication, it is tough to get seams to lay straight on something complicated like that. It improves a little over time, and so an old car with worn out upholstery might look better in that regard than a new one. Add to that the fact that GM cheated and often put STEEL WIRE inside the welting to hold it straight. I don't know if they did that here, but it wouldn't surprise me. When the car gets old, the welting breaks and those wires stab you. Commonly available premade vinyl welting does not have a wire in it. In my upholstery days, I don't recall seeing any for sale that did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 The quality and "weight"/threads per inch of the fabric can be an issue, too. I have a '80 Chrysler Newport which was sold to an oil tool company in West Texas from new. It has the velour loose-pillow split bench front seat. The velour is worn away on the driver's cushion and the main contact area of the lean-back, but the base material is still in good shape. Looks very worn, but intact. I figured I would do those seats as the last thing I did, all things considered, to that car. Mainly due to complexity and cost. NTX5467 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 (edited) Also needing to source the seatbelt sleeves. I’ve found after markets that might do but are a couple inches short. Edited February 2 by MrEarl (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmfconsult Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Are your sleeves physically broken or just faded? I’ve had good luck refinishing these plastic pieces with SEM paints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 3 minutes ago, dmfconsult said: Are your sleeves physically broken or just faded? I’ve had good luck refinishing these plastic pieces with SEM paints. the driver side is broken into, passenger not so bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I have been watching this topic since I prefer "newer" cars and upholstery is often an issue. A lot of this wear begins when the foam under the fabric deteriorates. The 19 year old Cadillac I bought last January had a split in the driver bottom leather due mainly because of a lack of support. I have fixed that and have one small flaw left to make it as it left the factory. I have installed new seat buns in three of the Chevy trucks I have owned. I bought my '05 Silverado new and kept it well maintained. It has a cloth interior and I noticed a crease in the bolster. That turned out to be from the bun foam failing. I installed a new bun under the existing upholstery three years ago and stopped the wear, saving the upholstery from replacement. That is 190,000 miles of sliding in and out. The two other trucks I had can be traced back to the foam failure. Lamar's car is the extreme. If you are luck enough to catch one early a good cleaning and build up or replacement of the foam can save the interior. I have pillowed velour in my '86 Park Ave. The foam is good but the velour is a bit faded but otherwise good. It is the zipper style assembly. It should be interesting to deal with. As usual, I will only seek professional help as a last resort. If what you have looks good keep it clean and don't be afraid to pull a few hog rings so you can beef up the foam. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 (edited) Update. The seat material from SMS came in today, 6 weeks after ordering, not as bad as some I have heard about but a bit longer than the 2 weeks they said it should be. I lost my spot in line at the upholsterer so will be awhile. this is the tan striped, the plain tan is underneath. I also have the closest to my seatbelt sleeves I could find. They’re for a Camaro but correct length and color. I may try heating with a heat gun and bending slightly to better match originals. Edited March 14 by MrEarl (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmfconsult Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 That’s going to look fantastic when it’s done! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 I guess the original fabric is much more worn and faded than I thought! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 Since I’ve been laid up the last 6 weeks recouping from some fusion back surgery, the upholsterer offered to just come after the seats, do them and return and install. He had to order material to make the welting as well as special foam to give the extra support I asked for. Brought them back today and installed them. Said he spent about 3 1/2 days on them and that the double cushion was a pita. I am beyond happy and very impressed with the quality of work and look of the original design. The wife is very happy with the extra cushioned support, me too. It’s going to be like driving a recliner down the road. So, so happy I went this route vs using those salvaged ‘80 seats. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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