Fraudulent Activity

[dick shappy]

What if anything can be done to avert fraudulent activity from people who claim to be buyers of vintage cars or parts here?  There must be a way that these people can be tracked and prosecuted. My office staff fortunately in most cases has been able to detect these unsavory characters before they are able to extract funds from our accounts but I fear that there may be those who are not able to detect fraudulent activity until it is too late. I would love to hear other member responses to this problem..  Dick Shappy  

[Peter Gariepy]

On 11/16/2023 at 3:18 PM, dick shappy said:

What if anything can be done to avert fraudulent activity from people who claim to be buyers of vintage cars or parts here?  There must be a way that these people can be tracked and prosecuted. My office staff fortunately in most cases has been able to detect these unsavory characters before they are able to extract funds from our accounts but I fear that there may be those who are not able to detect fraudulent activity until it is too late. I would love to hear other member responses to this problem..  Dick Shappy  

 

I wish there was a simple solution.  Unfortunately fraudulent buys and sellers are hard to filter.

[alsancle]

On 11/16/2023 at 5:18 PM, dick shappy said:

What if anything can be done to avert fraudulent activity from people who claim to be buyers of vintage cars or parts here?  There must be a way that these people can be tracked and prosecuted. My office staff fortunately in most cases has been able to detect these unsavory characters before they are able to extract funds from our accounts but I fear that there may be those who are not able to detect fraudulent activity until it is too late. I would love to hear other member responses to this problem..  Dick Shappy  

Dick,

 

Here are my rules:

 

1.  Never post "want" ads as they attract scammers like flies.   Better to put advertisements in the club's paper newseletters.

 

2.  Always require pictures of the parts you are looking at.

 

3.  Always talk to the seller on the phone and ask questions.  You can usually ferret out a weasel.

 

4.  Be sure that google tells you that the phone number,  the name and the location all match.

 

A.J.

[Swear57]

I add 2 more to Alsancle list. Have the pictures date and time stamped. Ask for the address and let them know you have a friend  that lives close by and would like for him to come inspect the parts or car. Then google the address. It's a tough one.

 

 

 

 

Jim

[kar3516]

42 minutes ago, Swear57 said:

I add 2 more to Alsancle list. Have the pictures date and time stamped. Ask for the address and let them know you have a friend  that lives close by and would like for him to come inspect the parts or car. Then google the address. It's a tough one.

 

 

 

 

Jim

100% agree that telling them you have a friend close by that will come and inspect is the way to go.  Scammer will cease communications instantly

[Larry Schramm]

I would add that to confirm the time and day, have them send you a picture of the part with a current day newspaper like USA Today.  That way you can confirm the date the picture was taken.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[John Kelso]

I advertised two Model T's recently, absolutely incredible the number of scam responses.

[dick shappy]

Yes John. I believe that there are more scam artists lurking here due to the age group of people that appreciate these early brass era cars. What bothers me is that there is virtually no kind of enforcement in place that can apprehend these dirt bags and make them pay for their crimes. 

[Caribbeanjoe]

I have my 1914 Ford runabout for sale, and I've been getting a lot of scammers contacting me. Before I give them any information, I ask them to send me a picture of their driver's license, so I know they are not trying to scam me. I don't hear from them anymore.

[MotiveLensPhoto]

1 hour ago, Caribbeanjoe said:

I have my 1914 Ford runabout for sale, and I've been getting a lot of scammers contacting me. Before I give them any information, I ask them to send me a picture of their driver's license, so I know they are not trying to scam me. I don't hear from them anymore.

Would you send your info to someone you didn't know? And if they were truly attempting a scam, wouldn't they willingly comply with a phony driver's license?

[oldcarfudd]

If that purports to be the '14 Ford you're trying to sell, I'm already suspicious.

[Caribbeanjoe]

The scammers are not smart enough to send a phony driver's license, that's why they are scammers. 

[Ronnie]

42 minutes ago, Caribbeanjoe said:

The scammers are not smart enough to send a phony driver's license, that's why they are scammers. 

Just by having that attitude toward scammers you are setting yourself up to be scammed. In my opinion a smart person would never send you (or any other seller) their real driver's license just to get information about a vehicle.

[Franklin Olympic]

That 14 T for sale looks like a 1917 to me.

[DougTomb]

Dear All,  I have posted a number of ads on the HCCA Classifieds lately, both Wanted and For Sale.  I have received many suspicious responses to my ads.  Some are obvious scammers, others I am not quite sure.  I have a simple solution.

 

I reply back to the inquiry, and I ask the responder if they are an HCCA member?  I also ask if they belong to an HCCA Region, and where are they located?

 

Nine times out of ten, I do not get a response back, and they stop bothering me.  A couple have come back, but they still don't tell me if they are a member, or where they are located.  Suspecting a scam, I just don't contact them again.

 

But, a few times, I have really found what I needed, and that makes the other annoyances worth the effort.

 

I often ask myself, A few pesky scammers, or the hassle of The Ebay Big Brother?  I'll take the HCCA Ads and the scammers any day.

 

Thanks, Doug.

 

[KiwiFord]

On 12/9/2023 at 3:50 AM, Caribbeanjoe said:

The scammers are not smart enough to send a phony driver's license, that's why they are scammers. 

I think you underestimate the sophistication of some scammers. Without any offence intended, this underestimation itself puts people at risk of being scammed. Many scams are very elaborate and many scammers run, or are employed by people who run, very digitally advanced operations. 
 

As a potential purchaser of a car, if I was asked for a copy of my drivers license online I would run a mile. Enough of a black flag for me to think I may be in fact dealing with a scammer.

 

The information on a drivers license in some countries carries a ‘points of ID value’.  Often 100 points of ID is required and a drivers license is worth 40 points in my State, thus not insignificant in proving one’s identity. 
 

If contacted by email look for syntax, spelling, grammar etc.

 

Hover your mouse/cursor over the email address of the sender to check it seems valid. Look for unusual domain names. Check it’s not a spoof ie check that the sender name seems to correlate to the sender email address.
 

Sometimes there are glaring problems. Other times it’s no one big thing… it’s a series of small things, that all add up to say “this doesn’t feel right”. Often after a couple of further emails you can explain the small things and go ok this seems good, or actually the feeling of things not being right continues to grow.

 

I have been looking for an affordable early car mostly a project, up to around 1905, and still am. As an aside, if anyone can help please message me privately on the forum. 
 

I saw a great car advised for sale on

the hcca website a couple of years back, good price, on the cheap side, not a once in a lifetime bargain but still pretty good-cheap enough it didn’t quite add up. The photos were excellent. It looked like everything I wanted. But there were too many of those small things that didn’t quite add up as I continued to communicate via email with the seller so decided to give it a miss. The tone of the language used felt very much like I was communicating with someone who’s English had a slight hint of Indian having been their first language.
 

About a year later I was in touch with the late Mark Smith and he sent me the same photos of the same car. Turns out the scammer had used old online auction photos, had a good amount of information from the auction write up and therefore was able to seem quite competent. 
 

Mark did offer the car at a fair price, but unfortunately for me he passed away before anything could be finalised. 
 

For anyone in business, such as Mr Shappy who raised this post I would say it’s worth considering Cyber Insurance with a Cyber Crime Component. Social engineering, ransomware, privacy breaches, hacking etc etc can lead to costly losses for businesses. 

 

Edited April 13 by KiwiFord (see edit history)

[JRA]

On 12/7/2023 at 5:27 PM, Caribbeanjoe said:

I have my 1914 Ford runabout for sale, and I've been getting a lot of scammers contacting me. Before I give them any information, I ask them to send me a picture of their driver's license, so I know they are not trying to scam me. I don't hear from them anymore.

I would not send my driver’s license to a seller who I don’t know, I would think the seller could be trying to scam me.

But I agree, it is becoming very difficult to deal with these people.