'41 Buick Special with black block question - replacement engine?

[roadmaster_56]

I’m trying to figure out of my ’41 Buick SSE with ≈27k original miles has a replacement engine or the original unit.  

The engine block is black and the ID pad number reads 4-4146738, which indicates an early build model.  My understanding is that early ’41’s had gray engines up until about mid Jan ’41, then used Dante Red for the remainder of the run, while replacement blocks were black.

I believe the low mileage is correct because of the excellent overall condition of the car, the original interior, trunk fabric and dashboard Di-Noc.

Does anyone know if replacement engines came with blank ID pads, to allow original number transfers? …..otherwise why the black block?  The car is stock in every other respect.

Thank you,

David in Santa Cruz

[EmTee]

Smooooth looking Buick! 

[EmTee]

Here's an excerpt from the table located here: https://www.buicks.net/shop/reference/engine_ident_52.php

 

 

This suggests that your engine (4-4146738) falls within the range of values for 1941 production.  Is there any other color under the black?

[1939_Buick]

Have read  Yes to the question "Does anyone know if replacement engines came with blank ID pads"

Casting number of the block? (not serial number)

Is the digit 1 a capital letter I ?

Is the digit 6 the lower case letter b?

That's the stamps the factory used.

A dealer re-stamp would be different

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[EmTee]

A picture of the engine ID showing the stamping might help someone answer the question.

[roadmaster_56]

Thank you for the kind words.  I just took some photos (below). The block pad is really hard to photograph b/c of its location.....to make it and the number readable, I had to change the photo to black/white. 

 

I removed some of the paint w/acetone from the side cover...nothing underneath...The iPhone's flash illuminated the block and it appears that it is unpainted, not black, something I didn't notice before.

 

I also took a shot of the entire engine.....when I first got the '41, the valve cover, spark plug cover and side cover were painted black, I repainted the valve cover and plug cover grey with the early production date in mind. 

 

I've also attached pics of the other body tags.  I'm thinking now, perhaps the original engine was rebuilt, the block dipped and not repainted....

[EmTee]

The engine number stamp looks authentic to me, given it has the six as "b" and the number one as "I".  I can't explain the block color (or lack thereof).  Maybe it was rebuilt previously after some mishap despite what seems to be low mileage.

[roadmaster_56]

Am I correct in assuming the "I" and "b" should be read as "1" and "6"....or did Buick use letters mixed with numerals to signify something out of the ordinary? 

 

The '41 has an interesting history, owned by a dealer for many years after a trade in....I purchased it from the 3rd owner, Gary Baseley 20+ years ago who (to the best of my recollection) replaced it with a mid 80's Corvette.

 

The only modifications I've made are a Pertronics ignition, a restored period correct radio and battery powered clock using the original face, hands and housing.  See article below.

Edited September 3, 2023 by roadmaster_56 (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I agree with EmTee. That looks correct.  The I and lower case b are to be read as numerals.  The b is also used , when inverted, as 9.  

 

  Ben.

[Daves1940Buick56S]

I was told the replacement blocks came to the dealers with a blank pad and a stamping kit with the number dies. The dealers were supposed to stamp the serial number of the block being replaced onto the new block. It didnt always happen. I have a black block on my 1940 as well and I fully believe it is a replacement engine.

[EmTee]

That could still be the case here with @roadmaster_56's car.  Isn't there a second serial number on the front of the block hidden behind the water pump?  If so and if that is blank (missing) that might suggest that this is indeed a replacement block installed by a Buick dealer's service department.  Aside from that, the only way to know for sure would be to find documentation hiding somewhere inside the car (e.g., under a seat).

[roadmaster_56]

I agree with Dave's & EmTee's take on this.....especially since the 2nd owner was also the proprietor of a Buick dealership..... no big deal getting parts....@ cost.

[EmTee]

Personally, if this is a replacement engine, I see it as a positive - particularly since it was done as Buick specified.  Given it would be a factory replacement engine, I consider it as 'original' (as if that matters anyway...).  It's a beautiful Buick, so drive it and enjoy the ride! 

[neil morse]

On 9/2/2023 at 4:53 PM, roadmaster_56 said:

I believe the low mileage is correct because of the excellent overall condition of the car, the original interior, trunk fabric and dashboard Di-Noc.

David, your car looks magnificent and I would love to see some more photos of it, particularly the interior.  But be careful when you refer to the dash as having "Di-Noc" on the instrument panel and glove box door.  You will open a whole can of worms about whether the "engine turning" on the panels was actually engraved or some kind of decal.  There have been several long threads on the subject.  The most recent consensus was that the panels were actually engraved, not a decal. 

[Glassesguy]

Correct. NOT a decal.

[Glassesguy]

On 9/3/2023 at 6:05 PM, EmTee said:

That could still be the case here with @roadmaster_56's car.  Isn't there a second serial number on the front of the block hidden behind the water pump?  If so and if that is blank (missing) that might suggest that this is indeed a replacement block installed by a Buick dealer's service department.  Aside from that, the only way to know for sure would be to find documentation hiding somewhere inside the car (e.g., under a seat).

Agree on the serial number behind the water pump. 

[roadmaster_56]

I just received the Sept. issue of the Buick Bugle.  In an article called "Those Wonderful Straight-8 Buicks" on pg. 16 is a photo of a smaller series engine similar to mine with black valve side panels and an unpainted block....hmmmmmm.  see photo below.

 

I'll try to locate the number behind the water pump as well as looking at the engine tuned dash panels.

[kingrudy]

My 1940 Super has a replacement engine and I have narrowed it down to 1949 the stamping on the side begins RE, so very little doubt. Very beautiful car. I like your choice of color.  

Edited September 5, 2023 by kingrudy (see edit history)