Intermittent starting issues with 1965 Chevy Impala SS

[rocketraider]

Is it a key fob remote start, or are we talking about a mechanic-type remote start switch that you burn your fingers hooking it up to GM V8 starter?

 

I figured the latter since those key fob things don't work for carbureted cars.

[rocketraider]

Just so Impala Jim won't feel so alone, a 65 Riviera is beating the snot out of someone down in Buickland with the same problem. Maybe looking over both threads will find a solution.

 

 

[EmTee]

Ah, OK then.  If it's the hand-held jumper/pushbutton type I agree; sounds like a wiring harness issue somewhere.

[starfireelvis]

5 hours ago, EmTee said:

This ^^^.  This is the first I recall hearing about a remote starter in this car...

 

First thing I would do is disable/remove the remote starter and see whether the problem goes away.

The remote starter is a hand-held device that allows for someone to start the car while working in the engine compartment, and is not near the actual dashboard to try to turn the key at the ignition.  It is not some sort of aftermarket frivolity doo-dad…

[edinmass]

Just checking the harness for 12 volts at the leads is NOT adequate. You need voltage and amperage. Thus you must be sure the wires can deliver the load as well as the voltage………….a rare but not impossible issue with contacts and connectors is they will show 12 volts but zero amperage. Thus the best way to check the system is not a DVOM but a bulb that will load the circuit for five or seven amps. 

[starfireelvis]

5 minutes ago, starfireelvis said:

The remote starter is a hand-held device that allows for someone to start the car while working in the engine compartment, and is not near the actual dashboard to try to turn the key at the ignition.  It is not some sort of aftermarket frivolity doo-dad…

My friend’s is made by Craftsman, but this should give you the idea…

[Frank DuVal]

7 hours ago, edinmass said:

rare but not impossible issue with contacts and connectors is they will show 12 volts but zero amperage. Thus the best way to check the system is not a DVOM but a bulb that will load the circuit for five or seven amps. 

I know what you mean. The situation of a wire showing 12 volts and no current means there is a high resistance (open) in the circuit. Sometimes it is in the wire you measure 12 volts upon before you attach it to the load. That's why all voltage measurements, and lamp testing, needs to be done on a complete circuit. A headlamp with two wires attached will load a circuit to 5 amps or so (attach one of the wires to a good ground).

 

There is not many parts to the starter circuit on a 65 Chevy. I suspect the bulkhead connector, it is the connection between the engine harness and the dash harness, as that has both the 12 volts to the ignition switch and the 12 volts away from the neutral safety switch (purple wire in most probability) to the starter solenoid's S terminal. If there is a HRPT (horrible red plastic thingy in Corvair forum speak 🤣) where the wire from the + battery terminal connects to the engine harness and other accessories this is also very suspect.  Some years use a screw terminal on the horn relay to do this connection. 

 

HRPT shown upside down, these four prongs go into the mounting hole, screw holds ring terminals on wires on other side:

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[starfireelvis]

17 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said:

I know what you mean. The situation of a wire showing 12 volts and no current means there is a high resistance (open) in the circuit. Sometimes it is in the wire you measure 12 volts upon before you attach it to the load. That's why all voltage measurements, and lamp testing, needs to be done on a complete circuit. A headlamp with two wires attached will load a circuit to 5 amps or so (attach one of the wires to a good ground).

 

There is not many parts to the starter circuit on a 65 Chevy. I suspect the bulkhead connector, it is the connection between the engine harness and the dash harness, as that has both the 12 volts to the ignition switch and the 12 volts away from the neutral safety switch (purple wire in most probability) to the starter solenoid's S terminal. If there is a HRPT (horrible red plastic thingy in Corvair forum speak 🤣) where the wire from the + battery terminal connects to the engine harness and other accessories this is also very suspect.  Some years use a screw terminal on the horn relay to do this connection. 

 

HRPT shown upside down, these four prongs go into the mounting hole, screw holds ring terminals on wires on other side:

 

In talking with some local classic car aficionados about this at a show today, the bulkhead was suggested as a possible culprit.  Thanks for the confirmation and detail regarding this.

[rocketraider]

On 8/31/2023 at 9:41 AM, rocketraider said:

...I can't remember how aggravating it is to get to the firewall bulkhead connector on those year Chevrolet but that's the next place I'd look...

 

[dodge28]

I had intermittent starting problems on a few of my cars. I kept a rod in the trunk and used it to hammer the starter, it worked all the time until it takes more than normal blows to operate. That is when I will remove the starter and fix it.

[Oldtech]

7 hours ago, dodge28 said:

I had intermittent starting problems on a few of my cars. I kept a rod in the trunk and used it to hammer the starter, it worked all the time until it takes more than normal blows to operate. That is when I will remove the starter and fix it.

That is usually the sign of worn / sticky brushes. 

[starfireelvis]

Impala Jim has resolved the issue!   He determined that the wire from the ignition switch, from the solenoid terminal, to the solenoid terminal, had a break in it, very close to the solenoid terminal.   He spliced in a wire, and that immediately corrected the problem, as it started up immediately, and did so many times over. 
 

It should be noted that the starter and the solenoid were replaced about one year ago.

 

Thank you for all of your efforts in trying to help resolve the problem.

Edited September 16, 2023 by starfireelvis
To offer thanks for all the help (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

I LOVE A HAPPY ENDING! 

[rocketraider]

I like it when old cars decide to cooperate instead of being ornery!

 

Or as I explained in a "not mine- for sale" thread, beating up their owners is how they show love.

[EmTee]

19 hours ago, starfireelvis said:

He determined that the wire from the ignition switch, from the solenoid terminal, to the solenoid terminal, had a break in it, very close to the solenoid terminal.

Somebody probably lost their grip on the starter after removing the two mounting bolts and tipping it down to better access the solenoid wires during removal.  That sudden pull on the wire likely broke green strands of copper...

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by EmTee (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

And broke all the patina!

 

Martha Stewart "gets" patina. I know a few people in car community who could learn from her...

 

https://www.marthastewart.com/7973577/what-is-patina-versus-rust-tarnish

[gungeey]

On 9/16/2023 at 2:22 PM, starfireelvis said:

 

 

 

This pictorial would of been nice in the beginning. Zip ties. coat hangers and a bonus assortment of hackery. Where's the duct tape and bubble gum?🤣

[starfireelvis]

3 hours ago, gungeey said:

 

This pictorial would of been nice in the beginning. Zip ties. coat hangers and a bonus assortment of hackery. Where's the duct tape and bubble gum?🤣

This was taken with the work in progress.   Do you actually think this is what the end result looked like?

 

Don’t be so obtuse…

[gungeey]

4 minutes ago, starfireelvis said:

This was taken with the work in progress.   Do you actually think this is what the end result looked like?

 

Don’t be so obtuse…

OK, sorry. Good job helping your friend