62 leaabre starter

[clintas12]

Stupid question.. I had my starter rebuilt and I'm having trouble remembering the orientation in which the solenoid wires.  There's an S for one stud and I can't remember the letter for the other. I've got a small purple wire that leads down with the power cable, but I can find any other wires and I swear I disconnected 3. Any help?

[joe_padavano]

The "S" terminal is for the START circuit. Typically this is the wire from the START position on the ignition switch through the neutral safety switch to the solenoid. This wire is usually purple. The other small stud should be the "R" terminal. This is the resistor wire bypass to the coil that provides full battery voltage to the coil and points for starting as opposed to the approx 9 volts that the coil gets through the ballast resistor with the key in the RUN position.

 

[Frank DuVal]

You lost the Yellow wire? It should be in the same harness as the Purple wire. Unless there is no Yellow wire on a 62, but should be.

 

Where Joe wrote "small wire goes here", that should be the Purple wire. A Yellow wire that is smaller gauge goes on the R stud.

 

Some original type solenoids have different sized R and S studs so the original Yellow and Purple wires would not get mixed up, but most replacement solenoids have same size studs. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

26 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said:

Where Joe wrote "small wire goes here", that should be the Purple wire. A Yellow wire that is smaller gauge goes on the R stud.

Actually what Joe wrote is this. 😉

 

On 5/27/2023 at 11:03 AM, joe_padavano said:

The "S" terminal is for the START circuit. Typically this is the wire from the START position on the ignition switch through the neutral safety switch to the solenoid. This wire is usually purple.

Not all 1962 apparently used the bypass wire from the starter solenoid. On 1962 Oldsmobiles the bypass wire comes directly from the ignition switch. If the OP's Buick does use one, it connects to the "R" terminal.

[clintas12]

I've just got the purple wire loomed in with the power cable. I did see when I installed the starter that I had both nuts from the S and R posts so I thought that I had to have another wire for sure, still nothing though. 

My starters in, just for some reason not getting to 9.6 volts when being turned over. It's just clicking, nothing more. I imagine it would just have to be corroded power cable right? The starter does fine on the bench when tested so it isn't the starter and I'm sure the solenoid (connected to the starter obviously) isn't the problem. I did see there's a small box conen ting the power cable from the battery to the starter, and my purple wires running down from there aswell, I couldn't imagine that having anything to do with why my voltage is so low?

 

Before anyone suggest, battery is showing I believe 12.4 or 12.6 volts. Hell, even with the jump pack connected to it my starters still not getting all the power required.

[clintas12]

I'll go double check for that yellow wire though before I check back into here. I couldn't find anything from underneath, so I cant imagine I have it... but then again, I can't think of a reason I'd remove both nuts for both small studs unless there was actually a wire. 

[clintas12]

On 5/28/2023 at 11:59 AM, Frank DuVal said:

You lost the Yellow wire? It should be in the same harness as the Purple wire. Unless there is no Yellow wire on a 62, but should be.

 

Where Joe wrote "small wire goes here", that should be the Purple wire. A Yellow wire that is smaller gauge goes on the R stud.

 

Some original type solenoids have different sized R and S studs so the original Yellow and Purple wires would not get mixed up, but most replacement solenoids have same size studs. 

I didn't see any other wires going into the loom. 

[EmTee]

Can we see a picture of the connections at the solenoid?

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, clintas12 said:

Before anyone suggest, battery is showing I believe 12.4 or 12.6 volts. Hell, even with the jump pack connected to it my starters still not getting all the power required.

That doesn't prove the battery isn't dead, unless you were checking it at the battery while cranking. Under no load a very discharged battery can show almost normal voltage. Try it at the battery while cranking. Put your meter leads right in the center of the battery posts, that way dirty terminals couldn't affect the test. If it pulls down almost as low as the voltage you measured while cranking at the starter, you need to charge the battery.

 

1 hour ago, clintas12 said:

My starters in, just for some reason not getting to 9.6 volts when being turned over. It's just clicking, nothing more.

Where EXACTLY did you measure that? Where were you meter leads connected?

2 hours ago, clintas12 said:

I imagine it would just have to be corroded power cable right?

If the voltage is pulling down low at the starter while cranking, and NOT pulling down at the center of the battery posts while cranking, it is a corroded cable or cable connection or corroded battery post. It could be either the positive or the ground (or both).

 

[EmTee]

Feel the battery cables.  The bad one will likely feel warm.

[clintas12]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:34 PM, EmTee said:

Feel the battery cables.  The bad one will likely feel warm.

Neither felt warm, I took the starter back out along with the cables. I'm going to make new cables at work one day this week (hopefully) when it slows down. 

[clintas12]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:27 PM, Bloo said:

That doesn't prove the battery isn't dead, unless you were checking it at the battery while cranking. Under no load a very discharged battery can show almost normal voltage. Try it at the battery while cranking. Put your meter leads right in the center of the battery posts, that way dirty terminals couldn't affect the test. If it pulls down almost as low as the voltage you measured while cranking at the starter, you need to charge the battery.

 

Where EXACTLY did you measure that? Where were you meter leads connected?

If the voltage is pulling down low at the starter while cranking, and NOT pulling down at the center of the battery posts while cranking, it is a corroded cable or cable connection or corroded battery post. It could be either the positive or the ground (or both).

 

I didn't think to check the battery voltage, BUT I did have it hooked to my jump pack while cranking. I assumed that would have taken care of it if the battery were on it's way out. 

 

I can put the battery in something else, sadly this is the largest engine on 12 volts I've got. Shouldn't matter too much though right? If this battery starts one of my other 8 cylinders It should be a safe bet to rule out the battery? 

 

[Bloo]

The jumper pack usefulness depends on whether the battery is really dead or just kind of low. The wires on the pack are usually too small to overcome a starter plus a half dead battery that wants to draw current.

 

Trying in another car would be a good clue I guess. If it's fairly dead it should crank slow even on an easier engine.

 

Off in another direction, you mentioned earlier bench testing the starter. Was the solenoid on the starter and included in the test?

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

On 5/28/2023 at 12:28 PM, joe_padavano said:

Actually what Joe wrote is this. 😉

I was just referring to the picture notes. You did mention purple! And the description of the circuit is good.

 

Clintas, your picture does not show a yellow wire at the loom at the top side. If the loom goes straight to the starter solenoid then this car may be one where the "yellow" wire is connected to the ignition switch.

[Gunsmoke]

Try putting the "S" into your topic title, and that should fix it! Click on 3 dots to right of your post, select edit and proceed.

[clintas12]

Replaced then battery cables, signal wire, and cleaned up any and all points of electrical contact and she's good! Started right up for me! Now to hunt down a disc conversion kit, rebuild the trans, and hopefully I'll be able to drive it around the block to see how far we're going before making it pretty again.

Thanks for the help!!

[m-mman]

Disc brake conversions……

You were having trouble starting your car.  You fixed it by making the entire system work properly as the factory intended.  Good battery, clean connections, properly performing components (starter-solenoid)

 

The brake system is no different.  People commonly are disappointed with the functionality of their brakes and when the whole story comes out they have maybe bled the system and topped off the master cylinder.  Never even pulling the drums.  
 

It’s no wonder that they were disappointed.  
 

Before going into all the time and trouble that a disc conversion takes (BTW just bolting on the parts is not a true “conversion”) instead, open up, rebuild & repair your brakes to full factory functionality. You will likely be surprised how well they work. 
Especially considering how a collector car is actually used.  

You will also likely be pleasantly surprised at how much cheaper it is to repair what is already there than to go down the modification path.  

 

 

[rocketraider]

In those years Buick's finned aluminum brake drums were widely considered the best brakes in the industry, bar none.

 

The only "upgrade" worth considering is a dual circuit master cylinder, and even that requires research to get one that works correctly with the existing chassis and power booster if present. Restore what's there with correct parts and tolerances. You'll ultimately be happier in the long run and won't have to deal with a generic disc brake system that wasn't designed for the car and is about promised to create more problems that it solves.

 

 

[clintas12]

5 hours ago, m-mman said:

Disc brake conversions……

You were having trouble starting your car.  You fixed it by making the entire system work properly as the factory intended.  Good battery, clean connections, properly performing components (starter-solenoid)

 

The brake system is no different.  People commonly are disappointed with the functionality of their brakes and when the whole story comes out they have maybe bled the system and topped off the master cylinder.  Never even pulling the drums.  
 

It’s no wonder that they were disappointed.  
 

Before going into all the time and trouble that a disc conversion takes (BTW just bolting on the parts is not a true “conversion”) instead, open up, rebuild & repair your brakes to full factory functionality. You will likely be surprised how well they work. 
Especially considering how a collector car is actually used.  

You will also likely be pleasantly surprised at how much cheaper it is to repair what is already there than to go down the modification path.  

 

 

I wanted to avoid the conversion, but I haven't been able to find everything I need in order to repair / replace everything, and everything needs replaced. I've found rebuild kits for the brake booster, but not the master. Can't even find any replacements for it for drums. I've bought and put on all new pads (only had 1 spring for each side front and rear that were correct), brake cylinders, and made up and put in new brake lines. The best I've found for a replacement master cylinder was disc/drum and ended up picking that up with a new brake booster. 

[m-mman]

Not a Buick expert, but as I remember during these years GM was using a Moraine(?) system and the booster and master were joined. 
While the master cylinder could be unbolted the piston was connected with the booster and it would pop out and release all the fluid.  
Check with your shop manual but I’m thinking that they need to be repaired together.  
 

Personally I don’t mess with power boosters, I have an expert do them.  
Search for Karp’s power brakes or Booster Dewey. Both reputable shops that will properly repair your booster/master system. 
 

I have talked to Karp’s and they have showed me how cheap the conversion boosters are and how robust the factory units are.  
More reasons to repair the factory components. 

[Frank DuVal]

On 6/10/2023 at 6:24 PM, rocketraider said:

won't have to deal with a generic disc brake system

That you or the next owner will have no clue what pads to buy when they need replacing!

 

Kanter lists a brake overhaul kit for a 1962 LeSabre.

 

The drums only need turning if there is an issue with out of round or severe scoring. Or "mechanics" turned them with every shoe replacement and now they are oversize. 😧

 

 

[drhach]

This guy (James) will have plenty of drums if you need one. 

 

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