Bad local car show experience

[imported_Bob Hill]

Well I just got back from a car show in which I had a pretty bad experience. I drove (pulling my trailer) almost 200 miles one way to the show. There were about 70 cars at the show - some nice ones, most not so nice. I took my 65 Corvair, AACA Senior Car - still looks new. I was the only AACA Senior there and was placed in a regular production class which was fine with me. I looked over my competition and there wasn't really any cars that were of show quality so I felt pretty sure I would win my class. Well when the trophies were handed out, I got nothing. A 65 Mustang with a horrible looking engine compartment and decent paint and interior won the class. Now don't get me wrong, I have no problem losing to a car that is better than mine but to lose to a car that isn't as nice as my regular drivers, I do have a problem. I talked to the chief judge afterwards and he said my engine had grease on it - went and looked and it was still spotless. I also noticed that the only people who won their class were local cars and they already knew everybody by first name. Obviously it wasn't a car show - it was a "let's give all our buddies a trophy" show. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I don't go to a show just for a trophy - I enjoy seeing the cars and talking to the people but I like for the organizers to at least be honest and fair.

If that wasn't bad enough, they gave out some $50 cash prizes using the numbers on your windshield card. Now I certainly am not accusing anyone of anything but I thought it was odd that out of 70 cars that numbers 1, 2 and 3 would be drawn from the hat. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who were the first people to register for the show. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It certainly caused several folks in the crowd to make mention of it.

Anyway, I guess I just had to blow some steam off here. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I will not mention where the show was but I will say it was NOT an AACA Region that was hosting it. I have made myself a promise though ? if the show is not sponsored by an AACA Region, I refuse to attend. I am not real thrilled with ?buddy shows? <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

[poci1957]

Hello Bob, that is a shame. This same story could happen at most local shows here in the midwest. I think fewer cars are receiving quality restorations and fewer people want to learn to "sweat the details". Lots of cars are now victim to inferior quickie "restorations" or even worse, homemade custom work, and it is pretty frustrating for a guy with a Senior car to be overlooked in favor of a shabby but flashy red ponycar. What can we do to raise the bar? I don't know, I guess just join the AACA or another club that wants to reward the quality car, but I think fewer people care anymore. Ideas? Todd Crews, POCI 1957

[Dave@Moon]

I have a friend up in Pittsburgh who always enters his car (which would win it's class most any local show) "do not judge". Further, he always tears off any voting/registration number from any dash card to keep his chances at winning anything zero, particularly if "do not judge" isn't an option. His attitude, which I agree with totally, is that the car <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> the trophy. I've always admired him for that. When my car is finished I'll be doing the same thing.

Bob, If you enjoyed the show otherwise I'd suggest returning next year and taking measures to ensure you don't win anything. If nothing else, it'll make a statement about the event for them.

[ex98thdrill]

I've seen that happen myself, you see a national winner get beat by something because of the good ole boy system. Part of that is due to the fact that many shows have either the spectators judge a show, or they have car owners from another class. If the guys who judged your car were in a model 'A' class, then some of the diehards will vote for the Mustang and ignore your corvair because of their loyalties to a Ford. I have been to a show where a guy had a nicely restored 40's International pickup get beat out by a brand new 4-wheel drive Toyota with mud tires, and that isn't right either.

I think one of the worst shows that I was at, had someone steal an original sales advertisement for our '29 Whippet, and the guy next to us had a plastic scale model of his car made up come up missing too. It's bad when you steal something from someone's car, but I'd be willing to bet that the thief had absolutely no use, nor any gain by taking the stuff. Needless to say, we never went back, and to the best of my knowledge, the show no longer exists.

From what I've seen, at most AACA sponsored shows, the judging has been fair and consistent, and the spectators generally show more respect for your vehicle (kids jumping on the running boards, dogs jumping on the sides of cars, etc.). If you really don't want to get shortchanged at a local show, probably the best thing for you to do is either leave it home, don't have it judged, or take it to a show that has a class for National Winners only.

[RoadsterRich]

Most of the local shows I have been to, AACA or otherwise do not judge by AACA standards, or for that matter any other national standards I am aware of. The most popular seem to be people's choice or registered entrants selecting the winners. With people's choice Mustang's will often win, as most of the people attending remember them or have grown up with them being prevalent, they don't judge on looks, they judge on personal preference. If you are going to a show and you care about the trophies I'd recommend you request information on how they judge before you head out on a 200 mile jaunt. Fortunately I go knowing I'm not going to win awards so it is hard to be disappointed. Likely as the car improves I will have some dissapointments in the future, but this is for fun, so I'll hopefully take my frustrations out, as you did, somewhere other than the show. This is always a good place to let out frustrations and concerns.

Now I just wish they would create a class at our local show for 'works in progress' or 'most improved'. I've taken the Roadster to two local shows (local AACA club sponsored) a year apart. I don't even bother putting up my judging card, as I certainly wouldn't win my category, even I wouldn't vote for mine (yet!). They are judged by 'entrants choice', where you can vote in every category but your own category. While this can lead to good ole boy syndrome, I haven't really seen it locally, folks from all over have won. The judging is done by simple model year ranges, so it is not as 'fair' as some methods, but I'd venture to say that most of the entrants be them local or distant have a great time at the show's.

Hrrm... maybe they should have a category for 'went to the most trouble to get here'. I know a festival I was a spectator at had, 'Most Distant Entrant', 'Oldest Car', 'Oldest Entrant', 'Youngest Entrant' and 'Ugliest Car' awards. The ugliest car was rigged though, they brought in a ringer from the local junk yard. They had cash awards for the categories and a small plaque.

I guess the bottom line is, we all have fun, and we'll all be frustrated at some point if we haven't been yet, and likely will be again. I try to keep it in perspective, but alas my perspective isn't what it use to be <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Seriously though, for me even knowing I won't win a trophy, just hearing the acolades and all of the questions about my car make me feel great. I even had a very serious offer of TWO fully restored show winning cars for my car in it's present state, talk about an ego booster!

Best I can say is enjoy the show's, and when frustrated c'mon over and let us know. Most of us have a sympathetic ear, or at least we'll make fun of you until you feel better <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (or is that until we feel better?)

Rich

[Guest Skyking]

I find that the crowd of people looking repeatedly to a certain car is satisfaction in itself...they know the winners!.....the hell with trophys.

[imported_Bob Hill]

Well this wasn't the first time I had been to this show but was the fourth so I knew how they judged before I left. I won "Best of Show" honors the last three years with different cars than the one I took this year (also Senior Cars) but the guy heading up the judging this year was new and as I was registering someone said "the Corvair is a Senior Car" and I heard the guy heading up the judging say "I don't care if it is a Senior or not!" I should have known then it wasn't going to be a good day <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh well my son and I enjoyed the show otherwise - I jsut had to explain to my son why a car that was fairly sad looking beat us out. My explanation was "this isn't an AACA show so they don't always do things right" I figured that was the easiest explanation but also a little plug for the AACA.

[Steve Moskowitz]

If you are in the hobby long enough you will run into all sorts of "unfair" judging...sometimes it works for you and sometimes not! I understand the frustration in the obvious bias at the show, however, what the heck do we do with the bits of plastic, wood, etc? Here is an idea, keep the special trophies that really mean a lot to you, box all the others up and give them to the Special Olympics people! This is an idea I may have picked up from the forum, it is not mine. The trophy you will recieve due to the smiles from that organization will mean more than all your dust collectors combined!

[Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL)]

A couple of years ago at our region's annual show, a fellow showed up with a really nice model A. When it came time to judge, we didn't have enough judges. Some of the other club members and myself were asked to judge. They gave us the judging sheets and told us to go judge the cars.

My judging partner and I had neither done this before. We did the best we could. As it turned out, we judged this really nice model A. It wasn't perfect but it was really nice, possibly the best car on the field. We use a 100 point system. It seems like we took off less than 10 points.

WELL...... We later found out that the rest of the judges were VERY lenient. So much so, that none of the cars we judged won anything. The model A was definitely "Best of Show" material, but didn't win anything because all the judges were not judging on the same scale.

I felt really bad. The owner was really upset! To top it off, he had driven over 200 miles to the show. It was an honest mistake, but I wonder if he thinks the thing was rigged to give the trophies to the locals? After all, there were very few "out of towners" there.

[imported_Bob Hill]

well I have seen that happen as well but one team judged all the cars at this show so obviously there was "consistency" or the chance of it. There was another car in my class that would be a easy National Winner (based on my limited knowledge of course) and I knew that it would give me some stiff competition and if it had won I would have said nothing as it was VERY nice as well. He didn't get anything either!! In fact, with one or two exceptions, the cars that won were some of the worse looking cars in the show but all local cars. I realize judging at local shows is by volunteers that often know little about judging but they should be able to give higher points to cars that are obviously well restored versus those with paint flaking off the engines or faded paint. Maybe the judges were golfers and thought that the lower scoring cars won <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Again, I learned a lesson - hasn't caused me to give up the hobby - just that show <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Al Smeraldo]

Don't sweat the local shows. I was at a charity show once where there were cans placed in front of each car for donations with the most money determining the winner. There were two cute girls with a beat up VW. It didn't take any brains to predict the winner. Another time same format a Packard sedan that had been painted with a brush beat out a gorgeous Pierce and a beautiful Packard pheaton. The owner either had a lot of friends or bought himself a trophy. Al

[D Binger]

I went to an all Ford show once with my Model A Roadster and when the trophys were awarded there were 11 for Mustangs and one for all the rest of the Fords. The next year they were begging everyone to bring out their Fords - - - - - -there second annual show was even more of a joke and the Mustang club folded right after that. It has reformed since and they are still having a little problem getting the Fords they want at the shows they put on. I know I won't take my Model A or my Model T to them. I will go and walk around and look, as long as it is free.

Dan

[rocketraider]

That's the reason I put the cars in very few local shows, unless I'm asked by the sponsors to bring them. Even then I usually enter them as display only, because I know the politics of the local shows.

The worst experience I ever had was at the hands of an AACA-trained judge, at a local show that included a "National Winners" display class. The Toronado had just come off a heady show season in which it won an OCA National First 1967-70 Toronado scoring 982 points out of a possible 1000, Best Oldsmobile at the Peach Blossom BOP, and 2nd Place Overall at Fall Charlotte AutoFair-Oldsmobile show division so I put it in that class (had not joined AACA at that time so had no AACA experience). Over the winter, it had developed a hand-sized paint blister on the right door which I had not had time to correct and honestly had not seen until the morning of the show, but the money was paid so it went.

Well- guess what? At judging time (which I never understood why these cars were judged to begin with as it was advertised as a DISPLAY class), our friendly AACA-trained judge overlooked everything else about the car and zeroed in on that one paint blister, demanding to know how that car could possibly have won a National trophy with a defect like that?

People who have known me for years told me they had no idea I could be that ugly to anyone. It bugged me, and soured me on AACA scoring for a while until I was told later that the guy saw that Toronado as a direct threat to his 1970 Monte Carlo's continued dominance of that show and wasn't about to let it outclass him, and had said so within hearing distance of several people.

It amazes me what people will do to each other over a $25 trophy. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[WCraigH]

OK, this post is 180 from the thread topic, but...

A few years ago I took my mostly original 1955 Packard Patrician to a local car show. There was no judging, but prizes were awarded by popular vote. I declined to enter, as I was just there for the fun and other cars. There was a beautifully restored Chrysler 300-F convert that was clear superior to anything else there, but it didn't win the popular vote.

During the "walk by judging" by the attendees, a teen-something girl came up to me while I was standing by my Pat and said "You have the most beautiful car here! I'm going to vote for you." She probably had no idea what a Packard is/was...but that comment made my day. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest Randy Berger]

Craig, any time a young thing comes up to me and says anything it makes my day too! She may have been hitting on you after seeing that back seat.

YFAM, Randy Berger <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest boettger]

From my experience, actively involved in producing a local car show for over ten years and somehow getting put in charge of judging,it is a no-win situation for the host club.

1. Most local clubs including out AACA Region DO NOT have the necessary quantity of trained judges to do a good job.

2. The quality of the entrants varies so much that AACA judging is almost impossible. If each car was point judged by a team (What a great thing it would be to have multiple "qualified teams") the judging process would take forever. Much of the local show judging is done after a quick look at the class to see which cars need a further look.

3. The judging rules for most local shows are not well defined if defined at all.

4. Participant judging is used at many shows.

The biggest problem with participant judging is that all vehicles are not on the show field when the participants do their judging. Most sponsors ask the participants to start the judging at noon. Many participants look at the cars right after they park their own car, then head to the flea market. Late arrivals may or may not be considered by many participants.

5. Popular vote judging usually means "Shiney, Red, Convertible= Class Winner"

I don't have the answer, but I wish that local car shows could be fun social events without the petty rush for a trophy.

Bring you cars to your local Region's car show to support the hobby and enjoy the spectator's admiration of your baby.

You local Region needs you.

Most Regions use the car show proceeds to sustain their activities for the year and to give something back to their communitities through charitable contributions and education of automotive heritage.

Your local car show sponsored, by the Fire Department, or service club will probably not serve the needs of the hobbiest like that of a show hosted by an AACA Region.

Someone in a reply to this thread said it right.

YOUR VEHICLE IS YOUR TROPHY!

Enjoy it and take pride in showing it.

Many enjoy seeing your vehicles, it's not the local trophy that is important.

[Guest imported_Dwight V.]

A lot of the local shows around me have been replaced by cruise-ins. A lot of the remaining shows are non-judged, as it seems to draw a bigger crowd when you can have antique, street rod, off-road and rice boy cars all in the same show (more $$ for the promoters). A lot of the vehicles are not show quality, but you do sometimes get to see some interesting stuff, so I've adapted my attitude to be, "They're all cars, and they are all loved to some degree. What the heck." Personally, I sort of enjoy showing up and not having to meticulously re-detail the car, and my cars get exposure to people who probably would not normally visit a serious, stuffy car show.

OTOH, I've been involved with the national Fiat club since it's inception. The annual event with trophied car show has, for the most part, been judged by the members only (including their spouses). There is a lot of truth to the "red convertible wins" statement (and I own one!). We admonish people every year to disregard color, check mileage, compare original unrestored to restored and so on. Yet, people still will pick a pretty car with lots of polished parts vs. the accurately restored (at great pains and expense) one. Add to this hot weather, disorganized group parking, late arrivals, etc and the judging is rarely taken as seriously as I and many others would like it. Yet our attempts at using 'judges' have received mostly negative criticism, so we don't do it.

For myself, I have enough pieces of wood and tarnished silver to last me a lifetime, so just display only these days.

I think we should expect high standards from AACA shows, since the club really is the leader in the antique car world. Local shows should be viewed as a pleasant display arena, and if you happen to win something, it's a bonus. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

We have alot of the same s--t going on around my area. The premier local car show hosted by the Lions Club has deteriorated year by year until the best in show was given to a Renault Dauphine{with my Vauxhall prominently displayed!} not that I have anything against Dauphines {I have one myself!}but with the current crop of local "enthusiasts" ignorance is certainly bliss"remember that car when we were kids" et al.

The last real car show I attended, at Old Westbury Gardens several years ago was spoiled by cops checking registrations and licences, a truly disturbing state of affairs.

[Guest J446]

I was once at a local show where one of the judges remarked:"There's dirt under your headlight cover." "You're right" I replied "but that dirt is from LeMans."

[Guest Mark Golding]

I think we all have been to these kind of shows, I bring my TT as an oddity not to win trophies. I have enough of them already. But what get's me are the winnners of the "local" shows are always the "locals them selves, so why invite others to come to a show that is slanted towards the memebrs that are putting the show on. We have a local AACA club (northeastern Pa ) that has a show every year at a local College. they show thier own cars and they judge the cars not the outsiders that come to the show. I have learned through the grape vine they decided not to show thier cars and have them judged this year. since they have lost so many of us that come to the shows from this going on year after year.

I stopped brining my TT there because of that. Now maybe I'll be tempted to bring it this year. I'm not sure yet, But I'm thinking about it. I always bring it to be displayed with the T's not the trucks, I did that twice and they look but just pass it by for the souped up "lil" Red Ford in the line.

SO the moral of this is if it's a local club that has htier own cars in the show and t hey are not in a seperat area as Members cars you just og to enjoy the other cars forget about winning anything and go for the fun. It's a sda thing that so many old cars are being chopped up to make steer rods and being crushed in the junk yards. Our local junk dealer calls me when ever he get's anything T related or a driver that comes in to his yard. I just picked up a 1943 Buick special for the cost of the weight of the steel. $125.00 it ran so well I drove it home.

It needs total restoration outside but inside looks like the show room quality.

the engine has 3580 miles on it . a little old man owned it since new I have the title also. which makes it great .

<img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

I know how you feel the last BCA show we attended ALL class winner were the club

members putting on the show.Even the guy giving out the awards tried to act suprised

when he called his own name.Even when there wasnt enough cars in a class they gave out

#1 to are car that wasnt even in the same class, but of course a club member.

And the y wonder why enteries drop each year?

[Al Smeraldo]

Now for the other side of the story. One of the AACA regions that I belong to has been running a judged car show for about 50 years. Every once in awhile I run into somebody who states that the show is biased toward its members. I have judged at this show for 22 years and my observation is that it is done honestly. I checked with the show chairman last year and found that the greatest proportion of the class trophys went to non members. There are four revolving trophys that are reserved for members and this is stated on the registration form. A fellow in the class that my car was in said that he heard that the show was biased. I told him that his car would beat mine even though my car had won a first junior at Hershey. It was better restored. I also told him that in 20 years of showing cars at this show that I had never won a trophy. I did't even get a third that day. I also told him that I had been president of the club. Al

[EdA]

I'd say whole thing about car shows ends up being "Why you have the car," sort of issue. If you are into antique autos for "prizes" then you'll be upset often at local shows. If you are into antique autos because you like to drive it and share it, then a drive to any show will be worthwhile. Both views have a place in our hobby.

I'm into the "love to drive it" camp, so I'm just happy to know my car will make it over some distance without breakdown and at freeway speeds. Driving 200 miles and back without "faliure to proceed" is sometimes enough trophy for me! I spent a lot of money and time in restoration and repair, but so I could drive it and preserve it, not fill my house with trophys. The few I win are icing nn the cake only. It's the talking with folks and letting them sit inside my 1934 Rolls Royce for a photo if they want to - that's the fun. Just explaining the engine, built in wheel jacks, and other special features is fun - and might just convince some youngster that they should join the hobby too.

I do think, however, that shows that offer "judging" should be honest about the standards to be used.

EdA

[imported_Bob Hill]

Well you bring up a good point and that is "why do we have our cars?". Those of us who are really into the show scene have the cars probablyfor several reasons - first we enjoy the cars but we also enjoy the shows and of course any honors that goes with them. This is why the AACA has a national awards program - to reward the owners (either for their hard work in restoring the car or their willingness to pay someone else to resore it). Those folks who aren't into showing at the national level (or maybe even competitively at the local level) might not understand why we enjoy it so - it is just an aspect of the hobby we enjoy. I am fortunate to have two Senior cars but I also have a car that I enjoy driving. It looks very nice and to the casual observer they will think it is nicely restored but to the national judge it isn't even a Third Junior contender <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The point of my original post was to share what I considered to be "unfairness" but in the end it really doesn't matter as I already know my car can win so it was probably more to let out some frustration than anything. I enjoy winning trophies (mainly because my kids enjoy it (and of course there is a little kid in me as well <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ))

[ALF1]

I have to click in on this one. In the late '60s, I had my little Thunderbird in a Southern California show. There was a '55-'57 T-Bird class, and the highlight of it (to us owners, at least) was the presence of a Bird with only 328 miles on it in the 12 years since it was purchased; it had been stored from the second week it was purchased by a Pasadena bank. Lo and behold, it had 16 points deducted for "non-originality." Everything except the battery was exactly as it came from the factory! Go figure....

<span style="font-weight: bold">-- ALF</span> and his friend Jerry

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, folks.

Just had to post this. Had a bad experience that was pretty funny when I look back at it.

Attended an "all British" car show yesterday in Lewes, Delaware. Really enjoyed the show. Very nice people and cars. The forthcoming experience was "off the show field". The nice park where the cars were displayed was adjacent to an elementary school. Was told to park my truck & trailer next to a basketball court. Told it would be safe there. It was downright cold as the day went on. Decided to sit in the truck and warm up. There was a little league baseball game going on in the distance, so, thought I'd watch it from the truck. You guessed it. A little slugger whacked a foul ball that skimmed across my roof. No damage.

With that, I decided to back everything out of harms way. Now I was about 20 feet from the basketball court net. No one was playing, so, thought great. Went back to my car on the show field. A guy came up to me and said some kids started playing basketball. He said my trailer was hit about 5 times while he was up that way. Again, no damage. Moved everything about a block away on a public street. No, I did not get a ticket for the trailer taking too much space.

Thought to myself on the way home how lucky I was. If this show was next to the U.S. Army's Aberdeen Proving Grounds, one errant live round would have blown everything to smitherines.

Regards, Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[Dynaflash8]

Oldscarnut is right. Most of the local shows use the 52-pickup method to acquire judges (warm bodies). Sometimes they are good enough, sometimes not. It's the big Nationals that count. You always run the risk of embarrassing a National winning car by taking it to a local show. That's okay, if you don't mind too much, but you take your chances. Check it out first if you have a concern. If the local people attempt to get judges from all around, rather than just local people, they are trying to be fair. The fact remains that some of the "warm bodies" may be inexperienced and honestly just trying to help out. If the heat of that bothers you, don't take a top car. On the other hand if all the judges are local people don't have your car judged.

[Guest]

I NEVER go to a car show expecting an award. So many things

happen. There were 5 of us at a show a little far away.

We all knew each other and we always win awards. After

stuff was givien out none of us had anything. We went to

the judges as a group and found they had no record of our

cars being judged. Some were pissed, I was not happy but I

did see some nice cars and meet some new people. Not too

bad. Jim 71 454 Red Corvette Convertible

trouphy