1905 Cadillac Model F

[cxgvd]

It's March and my time line to begin the woodwork and construct a new body for the Cadillac.  Under the hood I had plywood for patterns, it's a start, The Early Cadillac Group, on the internet, published a set of plans and that is where I went.  The plans gave me the basic sizes and I had to adapt the new wood to fit my situation,  thanks Jeff Lee.  In the first photo you can see what I had to work with, then with the hood and rad installed, under the hood and finally, yes, my wood primer is pink.

 

Also on the hood of the Cadillac you can see my efforts to match the dark green paint, called Brewster Green.  Further, I thought the metal hood was rivetted together, but no, it uses threaded rivets which are still available at Restoration Supply Co in California.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Gary

 

Looks like some good progress is being made.

 

You may have found some original primrose yellow on the battery box. The original finish was green all over, then primrose yellow on the side facing out along with red striping work. Here is a picture of the original box from mine.

 

The dowels in the wheel fellows by the spokes is normal for this version of the wheel. Mine have them as well. I expect that you will find the pins on all four, but they may only show on one side. I think that there are two likely reasons for them. Wood felloes are known to split where the spoke tendon fits. The dowel may be a factory way of trying to prevent splitting happening too soon. A second potential use is to plug glue holes. When I refurbish wheels I have found that the tendons tend to shrink and loosen up in the fellow. After tightening up the spokes and hub fit, I cross drill small holes on the back side into the space around the tendon. One on either side then epoxy can be injected with a sringe until it comes out the other side. This fills the space and locks the spoke in place in the fellow.

 

Also, it sounds like someone had the hood on yours apart at some time. They did originally rivet the assemblies. But if someone has taken it apart for repair/refinishing they may have used threaded rivets to put it back together. Easier than trying to press the rivet without marking up the sheet metal.

 

Pictures below.

 

Drive Safe

Jeff

 

 

[cxgvd]

When asked about restoring the Cadillac I typically say " what's the big deal, it's ten feet long."

 

Every morning my wife and I walk about 45 minutes and our route takes us past what I would call a restoration project.  Also about 120 years old, sitting outdoors summer and winter and about a hundred feet long.  I would dare to predict our car has not sat outside one night since 1975.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[cxgvd]

Completed sanding the wheel spokes and felloes and the metal rims, tire time.  I would have bought white or gray tires had they been available, but I feel lucky to have found these Ford Excelsiors at Coker last fall.  Obviously I am going to refinish the wheels with the tires in place, that is how the Pebble Beach men do it to win prizes and accolades.  Well, it seems like a good idea, too.

 

I have removed the seat from the body and placed it upon a large sheet of cardboard so I can trace a pattern and make notes.  The pile of wood near the top of the photos are rough cut for the rear floor.

 

Found the final photo forwarded to me, looks like an early fifties celebration.  Best of times.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[cxgvd]

Speaking of old photographs, there are many pictures of '05 Cadillacs with non original rear seats, mine too.  I wonder if the rear seats are trouble prone and as the cars aged the tonneau broke down and were replaced with something to keep the cars in service or were they primarily roadsters converted to carry a rear seat?  Maybe a question for the Early Cadillac Group?

 

Regards, Gary

 

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Gary

 

The Cadillac with the surrey top has a Model C rear entrance touring body with the bench front seat. That is a factory body. Although the car does have the wrong front axle to be a genuine factory Model C chassis and body. I know of at least one "05" that was "converted" to a Model C configuration from an Model F when the owner's original F body was little more than sawdust and the only body panels he could get to copy were from a Model C so he had a C body built and installed. That was back in the pre-internet days. And a side note, he removed the original rear step plates from his chassis which are not needed on the C and they later were used to replace the damaged originals on mine.

 

The blue Cadillac is a 1908 Cadillac Model S with the "two passenger rumble seat" (actual Cadillac wording from the catalogue). So again a factory body, not a modified touring.

 

It was common back then to take used touring cars and cut the rear of the body off and install a cargo box. This happened to many early Cadillacs just like it happened to thousands of Ford Ts. I have seen two where that was done and the later owner was fortunate enough to also get the cut off rear body section to allow the body to be restored back to original.

 

I believe illustrations of these Cadillac bodies and additional catalogue information on the various Cadillac single body styles can be found in the files section of the Early Cadillac Group website.

 

Drive Safe

 

Jeff

 

Drive Safe

 

Jeff

 

Drive Safe

Jeff

 

 

[nsbrassnut]

Hi All

 

Painting wheels with the tires on may sound good, but its often more difficult in practice than it sounds to actually do and get a good finish. And its easier when working with the later drop center wheels than with the earlier clincher rims.

 

Clincher rims by design fit deeper into the side beads of the tires and the beads tend to slip into the rim and touch the outer edges even without being pumped up.

 

I and others have had good success painting the wheels first then mounting the tires afterwards. For drop center rims, mounting the tires afterwards takes a special non-contact tire machine and a careful operator. Something that not every shop has.

 

For clincher rims and tires, especially when the tires are new its not as hard as it sounds. Clincher tires have no wire in the beads and can be stretched over the rims more easily. The trick is to plan ahead and make some job specific tools to help with the process. I found it very helpful to make a padded wheel stand to place the finished wheels on to mount the tires. This can be made from a 24” by 24” piece of plywood. Cut a hole in the middle large enough to fit the outer side of the hub through. Add about 1” of good padding on the top and cover with cloth, such as painters drop cloth from the hardware store. It can also help to add a couple of cleats to the back of the plywood so that it can be clamped in place in a workmate stand.

 

Mount the padded wheel board in the stand. Place the painted wheel front side down on the board. Then install the clincher tire from the backside. This avoids marking up the front of the rim. Make up some special tire irons. Such as taking hardwood dowel and wrapping tightly with duct tape. Another good one is to take a couple of old wooden pool cues, and then wrap the small end with duct tape too. These make non-metallic tire irons and duct tape softens the surface. Together this can avoid marking the paint. Work in a warm space and warm up the tires. With fresh paint, new tires and a spray bottle of dish soap and water the tires can sometimes be pushed on without even using the wood tire irons.  In a pinch, metal tire irons with a double wrap of duct tape can be used too in a pinch.

 

I have mounted two sets of 30X 3 ½ tires on freshly painted wheels this way with no marks on the paint at all. And also done three removals and remounts without marks as well. And when doing removals, the wheel is also placed face down on the board and the tire tools worked in from the back.

 

This usually won’t work with old stiff hard tires, but hopefully if you are going to the effort to repaint the wheels, then new tires are also part of the plan.

 

Some pictures my

 

Drive Safe

 

Jeff

[cxgvd]

Retrieved my Cadillac rear axle assemblies from the machine shop this afternoon.  I supplied the new bearings and the shop resized the pair of axles to 30 mm and cut four new sleeves, installed the bearings and axles.  Everything fits perfectly and should be good for the next hundred years.  They performed the work in two weeks and I found the cost reasonable.  Competent, everyone is happy.

 

Spoke with Craig Green and also Stacy at the AACA office to get on the list for the Vintage Tour in Maine in August.  Bonus photo is my 1913 Buick with the Cadillac.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[Terry Harper]

On 3/17/2023 at 3:43 PM, cxgvd said:

Spoke with Craig Green and also Stacy at the AACA office to get on the list for the Vintage Tour in Maine in August.

Awesome! I see the tour is in Aroostook County or "The County" which is my neck of the woods. If it were in Late September/ early October the foliage up here would be spectacular!

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[cxgvd]

Terry;  My wife and I have traveled in Quebec and the Maritimes, this will be our first trip "south" into Maine.  Mr Green described the area as wide valleys, perfect for vintage cars.  Your photograph reminds me of the Finger Lakes in NY state on the way to Hershey.  I especially enjoy the Vintage Tour, Pre '31 vehicles, the big cars like Imperials and the intermediates, Dodge Brother, Nash, Hupmobile, etc.

 

In order to keep this blog car related we expect to drive our 1915 McLaughlin, which is just a Canadian Buick.  Their smallest car in 1915, it has electric starter and lights, 25 HP, 3 speed, 106" WB, 33" tires and my wife drives it.

 

We hope to stay after the tour for a visit and perhaps you would invite us to your Museum?

 

Regards, Gary

 

[cxgvd]

I have completed the change over from plywood to beautiful green Tulip wood for the under hood floor and ramp.

 

When I lightly sandblasted the hood, which my restoration shop calls dusting, I found the seams and any repairs done in lead.  The surfaces are sound without any sign of rust.  Stripping and cleaning the original wooden battery box I discovered eight quarter inch drain holes in the bottom which had been completely covered over.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[playswithbrass]

Any updates Gary?

[cxgvd]

Hello and thanks Peter.  I believe I am on track to finish the job at the end of May.  RM Restorations hosts Cars and Coffee June 17th, Saturday morning, that is my target for the Cadillac's first outing.

 

The rear sprocket and differential are at Anderson's Machine Shop and Classic Coachworks are fabricating a new muffler casing, including two rows of rivets which hold it together.  I've moved on to coach painting.

 

Hope all is well with you, Gary

 

[cxgvd]

I now have all the parts to complete the rear axle assembly and get the Cadillac back on it's wheel, hopefully, next week.  I rather doubt the Master of Precision title Cadillac has, it required substantial hand fitting the thrust bearings and ring.  Fair is Fair, Cadillac should keep their Dewar Trophy

 

The barn restoration I posted earlier in this thread is back on it's new foundation, but I think I will be finished before the barn has it's first dance.

 

Moved on to removing the old finish on the lower body and uncovering lovely woodworking joints.  My, the old workers were craftsmen, nearly 120 years and zero deterioration.  Glad I'm not required to duplicate that woodwork.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[cxgvd]

Forensic restoration.  While sanding the old enamel from the wood body I came across a number stamped into the wood with 1/2" tall characters.  Reminded me of the McLaughlin and my Buick had body numbers as well.

 

Regards, Gary

 

 

 

[cxgvd]

I asked my favourite restoration shop to duplicate four fasteners which hold the fenders to the fender irons.  Had four originals to copy and had four made up from cheap hardware store stuff.  Today I stopped in and the fellow said they seemed familiar to him and found he had four early seat belt retainers.  They have the correct sized hole to fit the fender iron, the base must be cut away and the it is 7/16ths" NF thread rather than 3/8" NC.  Now he does not have to fabricate them and I don't have to pay him to make them.  Everybody's happy.

 

Thursday afternoon I am going back and we are duplicating the muffler casing.  About three feet long and two rows of rivets about 4" apart the whole length, he tells me it's no big deal.  I have my doubts.  I worked for the restoration shop three years, part time and when I want him to work for me I act as the holder/helper/apprentice.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[cxgvd]

Classic Coachworks is my great resource.  I did all of the drilling and holding but Stan ramrodded the muffler job and now we are good for an other hundred years.  It is a shame the job will be out of sight under the body.  Began with a flat piece of steel, run it through the rollers, etc.  Rivets were installed every 7/8ths" times two rows.

 

The last photo is from my 1915 McLaughlin, much simpler job from Classic Coachworks, but still a work of technical art.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Gary

 

You might want to take a second look comparing the original Cadillac fender eyebolts to the modern ones that you are considering.

 

The original eyebolts have the threaded section offset to the eye where the modern ones have the threaded second centered on the eye.

 

If you are using original style fenders and mounting brackets, the offset eyebolt is needed for the clamp plate and nut to fit squarely to the fender bracket when installed. Modern style eyebolts with the stud centered may not fit well in the fender bracket.

 

A few of these were reproduced some time ago, but are currently out of production. The last batch were laser cut from 1/4" steel and then required had finishing and threading for use.

[cxgvd]

Our new hobby is camping in vintage equipment, I've learned it is a popular pastime.  I want to combine it with brass era touring occasionally.  I acquired this 1976 GMC motorhome last summer.  Last week I had new tires installed and paid extra to get ones which would support extra weight, now I can carry 3150 pounds per tire instead of the regular 2650.  The GMC is front wheel drive and has an air ride rear suspension, so I raised the air pressure from 65 to 85 PSI in the rear to level the rig.  So far so good, the motorhome weighs something in between 12,000 and 13,000 pounds the the trailer loaded should be around 7,000 pounds.  Powered by an Oldsmobile 455 and a Cadillac Switch Pitch TH425 transmission.

 

Work on the Cadillac is continuing, I moved the lower portion of the body to the chassis and will correct the wooden framing and I have the hood in the final epoxy primer.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[EmTee]

I love those GMC motorhomes - beautiful rig!  They were waaaaay ahead of their time and still look like they were designed yesterday. 

[cxgvd]

The first photo shows I am the very definition of a shade tree mechanic, or as I say I'm not a mechanic I just play one in the garage.  Sunshine, temps in the low 70's, comfortable surroundings, good hobby, life is good.  I have a friend who is fond of saying "Who wants to play golf while there are old cars to drive."

 

The second photo at Hershey I purchased these reproduction spring clips even though mine were good, you can see they are too short.  Perhaps Cadillac made brake bands larger than those on my '05.  The pair of spring clips on the left are the ones I took off the car.  I'll give the repop pair to my mechanic mentor.

 

In the final photo is the assembled sprocket and differential.

 

Five weeks, almost, to go before my target of RM Restorations Cars and Coffee.

 

Regards, Gary

[cxgvd]

Cadillac woodwork.

 

[cxgvd]

Paraphrasing Gilbert and Sullivan " only mad dogs and Cadillacs go out in the noon day sun"  First time this spring the Cadillac has left the building, been a cold, dark, lonely winter.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[cxgvd]

There is some discussion and since the tonneau woodwork is completed at least for now we must decide to re install the seat which was in place or substitute a basket or box.  This look is temporary but remember income tax was a temporary measure after the First World War too.  I've formed the new rear treatment to accept doors and seat woodwork when I am ready to proceed.  For now, box or seat, for the speedster, I call it a speedster though it only goes 25 MPH because it is modified.  The basket as shown is a representation.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[cxgvd]

I received my latest order from Restoration Supply in Escondito and included were a pair of oilers which are for my king pins lubrication.  I could have installed zerk fittings, or maybe grease cups, these scream antique to my eyes.  They were expensive, as you could imagine by looking at the workmanship but it is only money.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

On 6/5/2023 at 10:34 AM, cxgvd said:

I received my latest order from Restoration Supply in Escondito and included were a pair of oilers which are for my king pins lubrication.  I could have installed zerk fittings, or maybe grease cups, these scream antique to my eyes.  They were expensive, as you could imagine by looking at the workmanship but it is only money.

 

Regards, Gary

 

On 6/5/2023 at 10:34 AM, cxgvd said:

I received my latest order from Restoration Supply in Escondito and included were a pair of oilers which are for my king pins lubrication.  I could have installed zerk fittings, or maybe grease cups, these scream antique to my eyes.  They were expensive, as you could imagine by looking at the workmanship but it is only money.

 

Regards, Gary

 

 

I just absolutely love details like this!

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Gary

 

I think that what you have installed are actually grease cup fittings. The handle when turned pushes the grease through the fitting into the part. And if you are going to use grease instead of oil for the front spindles then they are a good alternative to the original oiler.

 

Just a note for nit pickers though. Cadillac didn't originally use that style of twist handle grease fitting on the single cylinder cars. The chassis of these cars used two types of oilers and heavy cylinder oil for lubrication of the chassis parts. The first type is a nickeled telescopic oiler for the front spindles and for the rear axles and differential and a twist cover oiler on the front axle hinge pin. And the '06-08 Cadillacs used twist oilers on the ends of the radius rods. The earlier models just have an opening in the end of the rods to oil the rod ball and cap.

 

Cadillac only used grease cups on the valve rockers, intake slide rod and high speed clutch rings. They were originally Bowen grease cups with spring loaded caps with rings to keeps the covers from working loose. Unfortunately they are no longer available in reproduction and originals are hard to find. The Lunkenheimer flat top is similar and works the same way. Reproductions of these ones are available from Restoration Supply also.

 

Here is a picture of the telescopic style of oiler that was used originally.

 

Drive Safe

Jeff

[playswithbrass]

Jeff,I do not think Gary is in the Pebble Beach crowd. He has early cars that he tours and I have never known him to break down,always finishes. Just saying cheers pete

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Pete

 

I understand that. To each their own when restoring their car.

 

I would note though, many come to the Forum to try to find information on what is and isn't correct for various cars as well as for stories and information.

 

So I am offering up and adding additional information and context on the Single Cylinder Cadillac for those who may be looking for it later on. Part of helping to keep the "correct" information available for those interested.

 

Have participated in a few tours in the New England and Eastern Canada area. I have run my Cadillac on a couple of HCCA 1 & 2 tours and managed to finish the days that I drove on and have a bit over 500 miles on mine so far. But the one in New Hampshire in the ski hills a few years ago just about did both me and my Cadillac in. Some of steep hills and long runs resulted to damage to some of the drive train and some severe stress on the driver. Mostly repaired since.

 

Just saying, I'm not speaking from the "trailer queen" corner.

 

Drive Safe

Jeff

[playswithbrass]

Jeff some of those 1-2 cylinder tours are not for us with Cadillac,s. Whoever thinks that a steep hill with a stop sign at the bottom is not realizing what and can happen. I overheard a guy saying to his wife as they were packing up after the first day - why do people set out to destroy my car - let’s go home. But that’s for another thread.

[Luv2Wrench]

Any updates on this wonderful project?

[cxgvd]

Jeff;  I sent this picture to my small group of touring friends with the words " Finished, for now."  Last weekend Peter Fawcett gave me a driving lesson with his '06, basically the same car with some different control levers and he allowed me to drive his a mile.

 

 Thanks for thinking about me, Gary

 

 

[Lahti35]

Looking great! 

[Luv2Wrench]

It looks amazing!  While I know taking photos, creating posts and uploading images is a pain, I would certainly like to see more of the car in the future if possible.

[cxgvd]

I found another '05 Cadillac project located nearby.  Not for sale though the kindly owner agreed to loan me some parts so they can be duplicated for my job.  He even knows my car and it's former caretakers and was impressed I am restoring it.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[cxgvd]

I try to be quiet Sundays.  A good project is to fabricate and install mudflaps for the front fenders.  I saw some original Cadillacs and measured the shape and size.  Over some time I assembled a piece of Stainless Steel (which will have to be painted black), ordered threaded rivets ( the holes in the fenders already existed), the local shoe repair man supplied the leather and I had all the necessary tools.  A few hour job, enjoyable, not really work.

 

Regards, Gary

 

[cxgvd]

Since the summer I have been driving the Cadillac around the neighbourhood and giving rides, getting used to adjusting the spark and throttle.  Drive a bit and tighten transmission bands, had a spare coil rebuilt for the ignition, starts better too.

 

Now I removed the body and plan the winter work, we have not used the car yet though next summer we have events.

 

I bought One shot enamel in Ivory for the body decoration and Fire Red to stripe the chassis.  One Shot is expensive, $50.00 CDN four ounce can and a hundred Kilometer drive each way to pick it up.  I also have a variety of camel haired sword brushes, new Beugler striper with many different sized rollers and fine line tape.  The photos show the first stripe yesterday, as a test, with two or three furlongs to go.

 

Regards, Gary

 

 

 

[nsbrassnut]

Hi Gary

 

If you are going to do striping using the tape method you may want to check out Finesse Pinstriping Inc.

 

https://finessepinstriping.com/

 

They make some very good stencil tape tape specifically for applications like this. The tape is way better than any masking tape and they make it in "layers" with pre-set width and patterns. Including multiple stripe patterns. The tape is a "plastic" type and can be stretched during application to help it go around odd shapes and to make some turns. Once applied, the upper layer is peeled off leaving the stencil sides evenly positioned. Then you can apply the striping paint with a striping brush or even a narrow regular artist brush.

 

Carefully going over the tape edges after application and before painting to press them down with something like a tongue depressor can produce a very good edge with little to no paint bleed under the tape like you get with regular masking tape. Below are some pictures of when I used the Finesse tape to strip the hood cover on my Cadillac. The masking tape was only a precaution between the Finesse tape which is the actual striping guide.

 

And in case you haven't already discovered it. Its best to remove the tape when the paint is still wet. This greatly reduces the chance of pulling the painted stripe off when removing the tape. But you do have to be careful doing it. One Shot enamel is nice though that it dries slowly and you can carefully wipe off errors with a some reducer and a piece of cloth over a tongue depressor.

 

Also, something to be aware of. One Shot reducer will help with slightly thinning the paint for easier application and flow. However, One Shot reducer starts clear but will turn yellow with age and can throw off light colours later on. Found that one out the hard way.

 

Drive Safe

Jeff

 

[cxgvd]

Thanks, Jeff.  I see in your photos you painted the edge of the hood panel black, very nice decoration.  Do you have a photo of the louvers?  Is the entire louver painted black before stripping or just the section, like a rectangle, between the stripes?

 

Also Jeff, do you have plans or diagrams of the rear wood or seat?

 

Gary

[dibarlaw]

Yes Gary the One Shot was expensive. The ivory for my 1925 Buick Master wheels was $39.00 here in the US plus it was shipped it in a box 40 times the size of the 4 oz. container. That added anothe $14. in shipping.

I used the Beugler Striper for the felloes and made templates for the spokes.