Dashboard/console woes-1963

[ytr1903]

Hi all,

First time poster here. I purchase a 1963 Riviera several weeks ago and have been steadily and successfully making improvements and putting out small fires. Yesterday, I got into the dash. The glove box light, the courtesy light above the glove box and the courtesy lights on the console don't operate. Along side of those issues, the lever for the heater temperature is probably not connected to the cable, since the lever moves with absolutely no resistance. I believe that I can address all these issues by removing the radio, the lever assembly that operates the HVAC etc., and/or remove the upper dash pad. As you can see from the picture, I have removed the ashtray/lighter assembly, the center a/c duct and prepared the radio for removal by loosening the knobs and nuts which secure the radio. I have also removed the 4 screws at the bottom of the top dash pad. 

The part of the console that secures the radio will not move and the radio will not come out without removing this part. Surely, I am missing some secret screws or fasteners which hold this part in. 

I have also tried to remove the dash upper dash pad (after removing the four screws) by pulling the pad straight to the rear of the car. No luck. The pad does not budge at all.

As you can see in the picture, someone in the distant past put a fancy stereo in the car and I suspect that all these issues revolve around that installation. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Turbinator]

Let’s get started. What I have not experienced I will not address. The dash pad will come out. Move the dash pad left to right a number of time then pull out the dash. The left right movement helps. My fuse block on my 63 is mounted such that the fuse block slides out from the bottom of the block. Check your fuses. The fuses can be tricky. The fuses might look ok, but sometimes they are not. Use a tester. It looks like an ice pick on one  end connected by a wire with an alligator clip. Oh, disconnect the battery before you blow any more fuses.

The HVAC CONTROL PANEL is operated by cables and levers. The bell arm on the HVAC that operates the heater broke or the cable broke. Hopefully, it is the cable. If the bell arm broke it is faster to have your favorite fabricator make and Mount a new bell arm. You might think ?? I’ll get another control panel entirely possible. 
For now, this as far as I can take you. There are other gents on this site that are mechanics extraordinaire. Put in your sweat equity and the experts will stay with you. Best of Luck.

Turbinator

[telriv]

The likely & common problem with the temp control is the arm breaks because the cable operates the blend control door & the heater control valve. When one or both start to give resistance to movement the weakest chain in the link breaks which is the cast lever.

There is a fix for this arm others have done. Very difficult to find one not broken. Since you are now a member you can get access to the repair by doing a search.

 

The courtesy light above the glovebox can be turned on with the switch by the light & ALSO by the, IF I remember correctly, the headlight switch by turning it all the way to the left & the console lights should come on at the same time as well as the rear panel lights. I would check fuses 1st.

Another problem relates to the courtesy light switches in the L & R pillars that operates when you open & close the doors. The connections become corroded, which need to be cleaned, OR there is a bad ground for the switches. A very poor design, BUT there is a fix for that ALSO.

 

The dash pad should come out by just pulling towards the rear. Sometimes the ribbon tape for the windshield melts over the years in the hot sun & is holding the dash pad in place. OR the windshield was replaced & the caulking gun glue method was over used & ALSO glued the dash pad into place. The pad should come out by, as you said, pulling it towards the rear. IF it refuses to move put the car outside directly into the sun which will soften the tape/glue. It may take a few hours so start it earlier in the am & go back to it sometime after noontime. By then it should be soft enough to get it to move. Once it starts to move pull steadily & somewhat equally switching side-side until it is fully free.

 

IF I remember correctly the HVAC controls will drop when you remove the 4 screws that hold it into position. Then you can remove the two screws that hold the radio face plate on. I don't know how the aftermarket radio is held into position but an original radio will have two 7/16ths. headed bolts that secure it to a cross brace which can be removed by sticking your hand under where the A/C duct came out. Stick your hand under there & feel for the screw heads.

 

I've owned my '64 since new & I'm better versed on '64's rather than '63's.

 

Tom T.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RivNut]

There are three separate circuits for The three lamps you mentioned.  All three should come on when either door is opened, but each circuit has it's own switch.  One switch is the headlight switch which you rotate. A second switch operates the lamp above the glove box, and the third switch is on the back of the console.  12V is supplied directly to each lamp, the switch is on the ground wire.  A lot has been written on this subject, more than I can go into here.  Do a search limiting it to this forum for diagnosing the interior lighting.  

 

Bob is correct on the lever with no resistance.  Chances are the heater control valve, on the firewall,  is corroded tight and when someone tried to move it to get or remove heat they just kept pushing until the pot metal lever broke.  If you're a member of the ROA, there's a write up in the tech section of the ROA website about replacing these levers. 

 

I didn't answer your questions directly but I've hopefully given you a place to start.  You will find that 99% of your questions have been asked by other new owners and the answers are yours by searching.  

 

Buy a chassis manual for your year and join the ROA.  The ROA has tech advisors for each generation; their contact information is in the RIVIEW, the magazine of the club.  The RIVIEW also has a great classified section for those hard to find parts. A link to the ROA is in my signature block.

 

Good luck and keep us updated.

 

Ed

[BulldogDriver]

To get the radio mount plate off you need to remove the ashtray assembly first. Then remove radio knobs and the nuts and washers off of the radio shafts. Up behind  the radio plate are 2 nuts, 7/16” if I remember correctly, need to be removed than, if the radio is loose enough, pull the bottom away first as the plate has 2 tabs that lock under the lever plate. If the radio isn’t loose, there are hex-head screws holding the rear to the frame. 
 

To remove the lever assembly you need to get the dash pad off as the levers have 6 cables attached to them. If I remember correctly you can somewhat still drop the assembly down  with the cables attached. To do this you need to remove the 4 screws visible  than there are 2  nuts on either side up inside the dash. Shine a light in there and you will see them. The assembly needs to be pulled toward you a bit as it also has tabs to hold it in place up by the black trim of the dash/console. There are switch connectors for the antenna and courtesy lights that have to be removed. You’ll see them. Ignore the vent hose attachments in my photo, I have Vintage Air AC.  
 

Ray

[ytr1903]

Wow. I am still reeling from the overwhelming response last night to my questions. Thank all of you so much. So where to begin? It refers back to the old adage of eating an elephant one bite at a time. I went out this morning, thanks to your suggestions, instantly found the two nuts that hold the radio assembly in the dash. As you can see by the picture, the radio is now out. The original radio came with the car and will be reinstalled at the appropriate time. I am not an audiophile by any stretch of the imagination, so the radio is just a space filler. My next step is to drop the HVAC assembly enough to see what is going on with the temp cable. I will report back as soon as I discover what that issue is. As far as removing the top dash pad, I pulled right to left on it again this morning and no joy. I will put the car outside in the sun today and try again later. 

Tom

[Chasander]

Please add your location (state) to your profile. 

[RIVNIK]

Greetings Tom, while you are working on your project you may want to consider sending that original radio off for an upgrade. Mine was done by Gary Tayman from Tayman Electrical LLC in Sarasota Fl.(941-371-8924)who I can't say enough good about. Your radio will come back looking brand new inside & out, will have all the functions of a modern stereo, improved sound, AM-FM, Bluetooth capability, etc. but retain the stock appearance. Gary can also provide you w upgraded front & rear speakers for true stereo sound. Not cheap but one of the best improvements Ive made to my '65.    BTW: I have a $20 off coupon which expired in Feb. If Gary will honor it I'll send it to you. Not much but every little bit helps right?    Drew

[RivNut]

The dash is just being ornery.  If you have the four screws removed from under the lip, just keep pulling, working it loose.  You'll eventually get it.  When you get it to move an inch or so, tip it up and look for a couple of hinged brackets that do nothing put keep it from flopping. They may be a little rusty.  The dash has a metal  backing, your'e not going to break it.   

[XframeFX]

8 hours ago, ytr1903 said:

I am not an audiophile by any stretch of the imagination, so the radio is just a space filler.

 

6 hours ago, RIVNIK said:

you may want to consider sending that original radio off for an upgrade. Mine was done by Gary Tayman from Tayman Electrical LLC in Sarasota Fl.(941-371-8924)

 

5 hours ago, RivNut said:

The dash is just being ornery.

Agree with quotes.

Gary Tayman does only conversions now and I believe he's a dealer for Aurora Design - the best! There might be a dealer closer to you. It is a pain to extract the radio so, might as well install a functional unit.

https://www.tech-retro.com/aurora-design/home.html

 

The dashpad has to be removed to assess your 1963 HVAC controls. I fab'd a new lever (top lever) from steel and used a new pivot pin (X) from a cut down long bolt (to have an unthreaded shank) with a wellnut from Lowes. This will provide a stronger pivot post and will allow assembling the levers in-place with the radio removed.

A Scandinavian member created a new lever with a 3D printer.

 

I see you have an early '63 (another red interior!) The console fits nice to the dashboard. I recommend NOT removing the console. Although my '63 was fitted with a another '63 console, it was probably the reason it was a big pain to install.

 

Being new to the Forum, your challenges with the Riviera has probably been covered here. Best to search first and continue with a related post.

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[ytr1903]

As you can see, the dash pad is out. I put the car out in the sun for about 3 hours. The dash had heated to about 140 degrees, at which time I used a gargantuan amount of strength to pull it back. (My wife provided some of that strength) The pad slowly let go and finally came out. Sure enough, the black weatherstrip glue at the windshield was holding it in and the heat had made the glue into a gooey mess. 

I discovered that the lever is broke, just as you guys said. The suggestion was made to take the broken lever and the plans from the tech tip page to a machinist and have him fabricate a new one. Does anyone have a machinist that has done this work for him? I would be willing to deal with all the details with the machinist. I just feel better if person has made a lever before.

Also, is the heater control valve able to be freed up with penetrating oil or will I need a new valve assembly?

The lights will also be addressed now that I can see and get inside the dash. 

Once I get these other issues corrected, the radio will be addressed.

Again, thanks so much. I had hit a point where I was sweating bullets about breaking some unobtainable part during the disassembly process. Your combined suggestions have certainly saved the day.

Tom

[RivNut]

Don’t waste your time trying to free up the water temp control valve.  Find Jim Cannon’s article on replacing that old mechanical valve with a newer style valve.  If it’s 100% authenticity you’re after, this isn’t for you. But if you’re after heat when you’re driving it’s a good fix.  It’s simply held in place with a couple of zip ties.

[Turbinator]

Tom, RivNut is correct ( on this one).

I put in a vacuum actuated water control valve early on. I’m not going to tell you how I could show. The ROA has Technical Solutions(?) on its website. Jim Cannon wrote an article as RivNut said. The article is well written and has pictures. If you are going the authentic way I have an original water valve I will sell. Others have them for sale as well and maybe new in the box. Mine is used.

The vacuum

 actuated water valve is inexpensive, so that way will be least expensive.

Happy to learn you got the dash out.

On the radio. I sent my original to gent in NY. The gent serviced my radio, increased bass/ treble and put in Aux input to play my iPhone, MP3 widget AND a new 10 ohm speaker like the original for the not so princely sum of $250. Plus the ride back and forth. I’ve been a sound junky since 1956/1957. I’ll say without fear I’m delighted with the 6”speaker in the back seat. Besides stuff recorded on Chess and Stax/ Volt sounds even better on a cracked speaker.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Turbinator (see edit history)

[RivNut]

41 minutes ago, Turbinator said:

Tom, RivNut is correct ( on this one).

Meaning I’ve been wrong on others?🤔

[Turbinator]

10 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Meaning I’ve been wrong on others?🤔

Oh heck no! It’s me making mistakes again. 😎

[RivNut]

39 minutes ago, Turbinator said:

Oh heck no! It’s me making mistakes again. 😎

I knew that. 😎 Just fun between friends.

[rodneybeauchamp]

On 8/27/2022 at 5:02 AM, ytr1903 said:

 

The lights will also be addressed now that I can see and get inside the dash. 

 

Hi Tom, great looking car. You have excellent taste!
 

While you are addressing the dash lights you may want to consider LEDs to replace the wedge type globes. A general dusting and cleanup of the gauge cluster makes a dramatic difference and brings a smile to my face every time I drive at night.

 

While there if your clock is not working you may be able to fix that. There are great articles here to let you know how that can be done.

 

And the Aurora Design conversion is good, have done my ‘63 Riviera and ‘63 Skylark.

 

Look forward to seeing more of this one!

cheers

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

Edited August 28, 2022 by rodneybeauchamp
Spelling (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

On 8/28/2022 at 3:53 AM, rodneybeauchamp said:

great looking car. You have excellent taste!

Aw, Rodney is just partial to anything 1963 in Arctic white with red interior!😃

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by XframeFX (see edit history)