1935Packard Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 Some of the Delahayes at the Pebble show today. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 More. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 More. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 More. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted August 25, 2023 Author Share Posted August 25, 2023 I've mentioned that I like the Pennock-bodied cars, and I found this very interesting resource online: Someone constructed histories of the various known Pennock-bodied Delahayes. Not all of them, but a lot of them, including how they have changed over time. Info at the link, and be sure to tell Google to translate it from the original Dutch into English. https://www.vincentvandervinne.nl/autos-van-delahaye-met-een-carrosserie-van-pennock/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 The 135 is not a very large car but some of the bodies make the car look longer than it is. While others not so much. As I posted on page 1. I'm a big Pourtout fan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 I have always been enamored with these autos, the styling is unmatched. Have not seen very many in person, maybe less than 3? Because of that I have figured they were mostly a one off kind of car made in very limited numbers. But reading through this thread it seems they were made in greater numbers than I ever imagined. What was the total production of these cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted September 9, 2023 Author Share Posted September 9, 2023 (edited) TAKerry, There were 2,592 Delahayes produced from 1935-1952, including 1,115 built post-WWII, according to what I have read There were also Delahayes built before 1935, but they're very different from the later cars. it wasn't until 1935 that Delahaye made the stylish cars that you see at concours and the like. According to Richard Adatto's book, Delahaye: Styling and Design, Delahaye turned to high end cars in 1935 on the thinking that the Depression had hurt all but the top end of the car market. To stay in business, you needed to sell to the rich who weren't affected by the Depression. So starting in 1935, the cars were all very expensive, all bodied by coachbuilders, etc. Edited September 9, 2023 by 1935Packard (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 1 hour ago, 1935Packard said: TAKerry, There were 2,592 Delahayes produced from 1935-1952, including 1,115 built post-WWII, according to what I have read There were also Delahayes built before 1935, but they're very different from the later cars. it wasn't until 1935 that Delahaye made the stylish cars that you see at concours and the like. According to Richard Adatto's book, Delahaye: Styling and Design, Delahaye turned to high end cars in 1935 on the thinking that the Depression had hurt all but the top end of the car market. To stay in business, you needed to sell to the rich who weren't affected by the Depression. So starting in 1935, the cars were all very expensive, all bodied by coachbuilders, etc. I think the stylish era started when they bought competitor Delage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted September 10, 2023 Author Share Posted September 10, 2023 AJ, Adatto’s book has the company turning to stylish cars and then buying Delage soon after. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 Orin……It’s clear to me you will have one of these in your garage sooner or later…….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demco32 Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 On 8/25/2023 at 2:35 AM, 1935Packard said: I've mentioned that I like the Pennock-bodied cars, and I found this very interesting resource online: Someone constructed histories of the various known Pennock-bodied Delahayes. Not all of them, but a lot of them, including how they have changed over time. Info at the link, and be sure to tell Google to translate it from the original Dutch into English. https://www.vincentvandervinne.nl/autos-van-delahaye-met-een-carrosserie-van-pennock/ It are expensive cars. I did body work on these cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demco32 Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 https://www.classic-trader.com/nl/oldtimer/zoeken/delahaye these cars are for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted December 11, 2023 Author Share Posted December 11, 2023 (edited) Nice Pennock car now offered for sale at BAT: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1946-delahaye-135m-cabriolet-by-pennock/ Previous listing at Bonhams in 2015: https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/22528/lot/389/delahaye-135m-cabriolet-1946/ Video posted by the dealer offering it for sale: Edited December 11, 2023 by 1935Packard (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 16 hours ago, 1935Packard said: Nice Pennock car now offered for sale at BAT: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1946-delahaye-135m-cabriolet-by-pennock/ Previous listing at Bonhams in 2015: https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/22528/lot/389/delahaye-135m-cabriolet-1946/ Video posted by the dealer offering it for sale: I thought of you when that came through my feed last night. Paint the wheels fender color and throw the whitewalls in a rubber pile and I'll say "not bad!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 18 hours ago, 1935Packard said: Nice Pennock car now offered for sale at BAT: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1946-delahaye-135m-cabriolet-by-pennock/ Previous listing at Bonhams in 2015: https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/22528/lot/389/delahaye-135m-cabriolet-1946/ Video posted by the dealer offering it for sale: OK...so I gotta ask. Are you bidding? Or is that camp up in the mountains the Boss wants first on the agenda? 😏 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted December 12, 2023 Author Share Posted December 12, 2023 No, 7 hours ago, edinmass said: OK...so I gotta ask. Are you bidding? Or is that camp up in the mountains the Boss wants first on the agenda? 😏 No, not bidding. I really like the Pennock Delahayes, but I am still in the early stage of learning about these cars. I need to talk to more Delahaye owners, drive one, get more of a feel for what is out there, etc. before deciding if I'm serious about owning one. Very interested to see what this car will go for, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 Orin, I think you need to sit in one. They are stylish but not big. We should be able to find one that you could drive first. It has the preselector which is not rocket science but is different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, 1935Packard said: Very interested to see what this car will go for, though. I know exactly how much it will cost. HALF………..half the house, half the retirement account, half your paycheck……..if you buy it! 🤪 Sorry, sometimes I can’t help myself. I think over the years I have driven three of them. Although it was just in a parking lot situation. And the ones I played with were not the performance series cars. Fit and finish were nice. The pre selector gearbox was easy to use but I have never seen the advantage or appeal to them. Edited December 13, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 1 hour ago, edinmass said: I know exactly how much it will cost. HALF………..half the house, half the retirement account, half your paycheck……..if you buy it! 🤪 Sorry, sometimes I can’t help myself. I think over the years I have driven three of them. Although it was just in a parking lot situation. And the ones I played with were not the performance series cars. Fit and finish were nice. The pre selector gearbox was easy to use but I have never seen the advantage or appeal to them. The European version still has floor shift for reverse and neutral. At least the electric hand and the Cord were fully pre-selector. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 Neat topic - as I mentioned in the summer of last year here under this topic, I have at least a half dozen or more b & w period photographs of Delahayes taken in Europe when new by professional photographers of that era . More to be found in the annual show number issue magazine of L'Illustration, issues of Omnia, and La Carrossiere magazine all pre war. But we are in the section of CCCA and I do not participate in that club nor contribute to it any longer after decades of membership and contributions. I was asked to leave because I was not healthy enough to attend events in person some years ago. So indeed did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 On 12/12/2023 at 7:47 AM, alsancle said: I thought of you when that came through my feed last night. Paint the wheels fender color and throw the whitewalls in a rubber pile and I'll say "not bad!". Or... Paint the fenders body color, and throw the white sidewalls away. Even better. High contrast colors are to clown-like, in my opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, West Peterson said: Or... Paint the fenders body color, and throw the white sidewalls away. Even better. High contrast colors are to clown-like, in my opinion. Well, that would be better for sure. I was picking the cheap path. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 I was picking the second cheapest path... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted December 14, 2023 Author Share Posted December 14, 2023 (edited) Agreed that the color scheme doesn't work so well as-is. It's not original, and I wonder what they were thinking. Maybe they were drawing inspiration from this Figoni-bodied car, #48667? Either way, I don't think it worked. Edited December 14, 2023 by 1935Packard (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted December 14, 2023 Author Share Posted December 14, 2023 On 12/12/2023 at 3:07 PM, alsancle said: I think you need to sit in one. They are stylish but not big. We should be able to find one that you could drive first. It has the preselector which is not rocket science but is different. I've talked to the owner of a '46 coupe who invited me to drive his, which was very generous, although he's on the other side of the country. Someday I'll get there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 On 12/13/2023 at 9:36 PM, 1935Packard said: Agreed that the color scheme doesn't work so well as-is. It's not original, and I wonder what they were thinking. Maybe they were drawing inspiration from this Figoni-bodied car, #48667? Either way, I don't think it worked. This would inspire me to paint it differently. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted December 16, 2023 Author Share Posted December 16, 2023 (edited) Looking closely at the Delahaye on BAT, it looks not nearly as nice as #47533, the '37 Chapron-bodied car I posted pictures of from the Gooding auction at Pebble at the bottom of Page 1 of the Delahaye forum subject here. 47533 was at Pebble (the show, not the auction) a decade or so ago, and although its been driven since, it was a nice restoration, as far as I can tell. The one on BAT has worn and faded gauges, and the engine compartment is kinda messy: Some wiring is all over the place, and it has a modern alternator installed and the stone guard missing. 47533 went for $207k, so I would guess market for this BAT car is a decent mark below that. We'll see. Comparison of the engine compartments, BAT car first: 47533 Chapron-bodied car: Edited December 16, 2023 by 1935Packard (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 On 9/9/2023 at 8:43 PM, 1935Packard said: AJ, Adatto’s book has the company turning to stylish cars and then buying Delage soon after. That is an EXPENSIVE book!!! But I guess if you own a Delahaye or a Delage, you need a copy!!! Figoni on Delahaye | Indigo Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootey Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 The engine turned valve cover is great. Was there a mechanization of the engine turning process? Same question for Buick dashes of the early 1940s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee H Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 2 hours ago, 8E45E said: That is an EXPENSIVE book!!! Not to somebody who can afford a Delahaye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 16 hours ago, 8E45E said: That is an EXPENSIVE book!!! But I guess if you own a Delahaye or a Delage, you need a copy!!! Figoni on Delahaye | Indigo Craig That link is to a different Adatto book on Delahayes. I have the one on Delahayes generally, not just Figoni cars https://www.amazon.com/Delahaye-Styling-Design-Richard-Adatto/dp/1854432214 Although it's expensive, too (currently $168 for a used copy). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted December 24, 2023 Author Share Posted December 24, 2023 On 12/12/2023 at 4:47 AM, alsancle said: I thought of you when that came through my feed last night. Paint the wheels fender color and throw the whitewalls in a rubber pile and I'll say "not bad!". The Pennock Delahaye on BAT bid up to $121K, or $127k with the 5% BAT buyer's premium. An interesting question is whether this is market, or just one of those cars that doesn't do well on BAT. Using the Chapron car that sold for $207K as a reference, you might expect this car to go for, guessng here, maybe $50k less, like $160k or so? But I don't know enough about the Delahaye market to say. In particular, it seems to me that it's a brand that is unusually focused on show cars; people bring them to concours, and relatively few drive them. So a Delahaye that needs a lot of work to be shown at a concours may be tough on the market. But I don't know, this is just my amateurish speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demco32 Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 On 12/13/2023 at 4:50 PM, Walt G said: Neat topic - as I mentioned in the summer of last year here under this topic, I have at least a half dozen or more b & w period photographs of Delahayes taken in Europe when new by professional photographers of that era . More to be found in the annual show number issue magazine of L'Illustration, issues of Omnia, and La Carrossiere magazine all pre war. But we are in the section of CCCA and I do not participate in that club nor contribute to it any longer after decades of membership and contributions. I was asked to leave because I was not healthy enough to attend events in person some years ago. So indeed did. I have some magazine of L'illustration too from bigining the 1900 years. twenty years ago we had Delage and Delahaye in our body shop for restoration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 6 hours ago, 1935Packard said: The Pennock Delahaye on BAT bid up to $121K, or $127k with the 5% BAT buyer's premium. An interesting question is whether this is market, or just one of those cars that doesn't do well on BAT. Using the Chapron car that sold for $207K as a reference, you might expect this car to go for, guessng here, maybe $50k less, like $160k or so? But I don't know enough about the Delahaye market to say. In particular, it seems to me that it's a brand that is unusually focused on show cars; people bring them to concours, and relatively few drive them. So a Delahaye that needs a lot of work to be shown at a concours may be tough on the market. But I don't know, this is just my amateurish speculation. Not ugly but not stunning open body. Number one factor with these cars is the coachwork (as with all prewar Classics) and then condition and provenance. Also, one sale doesn't make the market, especially an online one. I would expect this car to do better in a private dealer sales situation or a boutique auction. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 16 hours ago, alsancle said: Not ugly but not stunning open body. Number one factor with these cars is the coachwork (as with all prewar Classics) and then condition and provenance. Also, one sale doesn't make the market, especially an online one. I would expect this car to do better in a private dealer sales situation or a boutique auction. For those interested, I looked around and here are some other Delahaye cabriolets by Pennock that were sold at auction recently (incidentally, the car looks so much better in a single color-- I especially like the very dark second one): 1. https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/26811/lot/422/1948-delahaye-type-135m-three-position-drophead-coupe-chassis-no-800843/ 800843, sold in the UK in 2021 at Bonhams for $211,000 in the 2021 dollar to pound conversion rate. 2. 800532, sold in 2022 in France for about $230,000 using then-current U.S. to euro conversion rate (although that was in a lot of flux in 2022). https://www.aguttes.com/en/lot/120481/17497976-1946-delahaye-cabriolet-135-ms 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 https://listings.worldwideauctioneers.com/product/1949-delahaye-135m-cabriolet/ Coachwork by Chapron 1949 Delahaye 135M Cabriolet Well-documented and authenticated by President of Club Delahaye, Jean-Paul Tissot Recipient of an older high-quality nut and bolt restoration by Chapron Desirable numbers-matching 110-HP triple-carbureted engine and Cotal gearbox One of just a handful of examples bodied in Chapron's distinctive long-nose style 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 (edited) On 12/27/2023 at 7:40 AM, alsancle said: https://listings.worldwideauctioneers.com/product/1949-delahaye-135m-cabriolet/ Coachwork by Chapron 1949 Delahaye 135M Cabriolet Well-documented and authenticated by President of Club Delahaye, Jean-Paul Tissot Recipient of an older high-quality nut and bolt restoration by Chapron Desirable numbers-matching 110-HP triple-carbureted engine and Cotal gearbox One of just a handful of examples bodied in Chapron's distinctive long-nose style Sold for $123K at RM last year, I assume because the front end is not attractive. I wonder if the new buyer bought it with the plan to flip it. It's nice with the exception of that front, but the front of car is a pretty big deal, especially on a Delahaye. Edited January 21 by 1935Packard (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demco32 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 https://www.oldtimers-te-koop.be/delahaye-oldtimer-autos https://www.prewarcar.nl/cars/delahaye/frans https://nl.leparking.be/tweedehands-auto/delahaye.html https://www.leboncoin.fr/offre/voitures/2480443205 https://www.leboncoin.fr/offre/voitures/2479273538 https://www.leboncoin.fr/offre/voitures/2433284551 https://www.leboncoin.fr/offre/voitures/2450306809 A few cars for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) 18 minutes ago, demco32 said: https://www.oldtimers-te-koop.be/delahaye-oldtimer-autos https://www.prewarcar.nl/cars/delahaye/frans https://nl.leparking.be/tweedehands-auto/delahaye.html https://www.leboncoin.fr/offre/voitures/2480443205 https://www.leboncoin.fr/offre/voitures/2479273538 https://www.leboncoin.fr/offre/voitures/2433284551 https://www.leboncoin.fr/offre/voitures/2450306809 A few cars for sale. This is interesting. But it seems like they didn’t quite get the windshield right. Edited January 21 by alsancle (see edit history) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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