Would you go electric?

[Peter Gariepy]

11 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

 

Good to know. We all know that government agencies always follow the rules.

 

Sarcasm?

 

I get being a perpetual skeptic.

I also get questioning the source of experts and facts.

But when an overwhelming number of experts in a field have studied the facts and come to a consensus, when do you concede?

 

Science and facts have proven:

• The world is round
• The earth revolves around the sun
• Cleanliness in surgeries saves lives
• There are colors our eyes can not see
• Cell phone data moves at nearly the speed of light

 

Science is based on facts.  Not opinion.  Sure, they can be proven wrong, but by other scientists. Not by consensus, or politics, or "gut".

 

[Matt Harwood]

If all experts are believed to be dishonest or have ulterior motives, it becomes very easy to discard information and substitute one's own beliefs.

[Brass is Best]

4 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

Sarcasm?

 

I get being a perpetual skeptic.

I also get questioning the source of experts and facts.

But when an overwhelming number of experts in a field have studied the facts and come to a consensus, when do you concede?

 

Follow the money and who stands to make the most from changing how Americans live. The answer is China. China wants to rule the world.

[auburnseeker]

If nothing else,  the last 18 months that we paused for 2 weeks for, show scientists (well a vast majority of them)  are about as accurate as the local weather man and change things about as often.  Follow the science felt more like follow the emotion.  Dark forces were at work at many bends. 

[Brass is Best]

Just now, Peter Gariepy said:

 

Brass, your are incorrigible.

 

Time will tell.

[Peter Gariepy]

3 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

 

Follow the money and who stands to make the most from changing how Americans live. The answer is China. China wants to rule the world.

 

1 minute ago, Brass is Best said:

 

It all smells of socialism. 

 

Brass, you are incorrigible.

[Brass is Best]

1 minute ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

 

Brass, you are incorrigible.

 

I am an American and I love my country.

[auburnseeker]

And some still believe it's raining outside when they are getting wet because that's what the news told them it was.  Seems to have a funny color and smell though. 🤔

[Peter Gariepy]

Just now, Brass is Best said:

 

I am an American and I love my country.

 

No one ever questioned your love of country,  nor is it germane to the conversation.

You also imply that if someone doesn't agree with you we don't love our country.  Far from it.

[Peter Gariepy]

2 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

 

I am an American and I love my country.

 

“baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet go together in the good old U.S.A.” 

 

GM, owner of Chevrolet, is spending $35 BILLION ($35,000,000) dollars are electric car technology.  Are they un-American?  Hmmmm...

 

 

[Brass is Best]

4 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

No one ever questioned your love of country,  nor is it germane to the conversation.

You also imply that if someone doesn't agree with you we don't love our country.  Far from it.

 

Well you labelled me as "incorrigible" because I disagree with you. I do not think that is an appropriate action for a moderator.

[Peter Gariepy]

5 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

And some still believe it's raining outside when they are getting wet because that's what the news told them it was.  Seems to have a funny color and smell though. 🤔

 

Or, maybe it IS raining outside.  You know it's not hard to prove.  Simply look up and see the rain clouds.

[Brass is Best]

1 minute ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

“baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet go together in the good old U.S.A.” 

 

GM, owner of Chevrolet, is spending $35 BILLION ($35,000,000) dollars are electric car technology.  Are they un-American?  Hmmmm...

 

 

GM is being run by people who have ties to China as well.

[Peter Gariepy]

3 minutes ago, Brass is Best said:

 

Well you labelled me as "incorrigible" because I disagree with you. I do not think that is an appropriate action for a moderator.

 

What is a incorrigible person?

Someone incorrigible seems to be beyond correcting, improving, or changing. When you talk about an incorrigible person, you're saying they're always going to push other people around. Even though incorrigible implies a person is kind of hopeless, it's often used as a light-hearted word.

 

Just because Im a moderator doesn't mean I don't have an opinion.

[Peter Gariepy]

Just now, Brass is Best said:

GM is being run by people who have ties to China as well.

 

And you wonder why I used the term incorrigible.

[Brass is Best]

Just now, Peter Gariepy said:

 

What is a incorrigible person?

incorrigible Someone incorrigible seems to be beyond correcting, improving, or changing. When you talk about an incorrigible person, you're saying they're always going to push other people around. Even though incorrigible implies a person is kind of hopeless, it's often used as a light-hearted word.

 

Just because Im a moderator doesn't mean I don't have an opinion.

 

Then allow me to have mine.

[Peter Gariepy]

1 minute ago, Brass is Best said:

 

Then allow me to have mine.

 

I didn't deny you an opinion. I simply firmly disagree.

[Brass is Best]

Just now, Peter Gariepy said:

 

I didn't deny you an opinion. I simply firmly disagree.

 

Good to know. I feel the same way.

[Peter Gariepy]

19 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

If nothing else,  the last 18 months that we paused for 2 weeks for, show scientists (well a vast majority of them)  are about as accurate as the local weather man and change things about as often.  Follow the science felt more like follow the emotion.  Dark forces were at work at many bends. 

 

Bold statement.  Conveniently without details or sources.  

[auburnseeker]

A cloudy day doesn't always mean rain.  It can rain on a nearly clear day as well,  I look at all factors.  That strange smell and color tells me more than the clouds in the sky.  I'm not narrow minded,  i just learned over time it's good to question everything and when someone doesn't allow you to question it,  then , that's the ones you should really be suspicious about. 

[auburnseeker]

Just now, Peter Gariepy said:

 

Bold statement.  Conveniently without details or sources.  

Go beyond the narrow realm of some internet sources and look at all then see my post above.  Those in charge have done a nearly 100 % about face on many things that have gone on and steps they took to "protect" us. 

[Peter Gariepy]

6 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Go beyond the narrow realm of some internet sources and look at all then see my post above.  Those in charge have done a nearly 100 % about face on many things that have gone on and steps they took to "protect" us. 

 

Wouldn't it simply be easier to state your sources to backup your claims?

 

For the record, I have done my research. I've provided my sources. 

[mike6024]

The further north latitude you are, the less viable solar electric power becomes. If you live in Pheonix and want to run you AC off of solar panels when it is sunny and 100 degrees that is ideal.

From a cost/benefit perspective even if I could save all of my automobile fuel expense, solar panels would not pay for them selves. I have no significant electrical power usage. The only thing would be if I got an electric car. I have no home air conditioning. Just appliances which don't seem to use all that much. I am all for conservation. But not wasting money, especially my own.

[Peter Gariepy]

1 minute ago, mike6024 said:

The further north latitude you are, the less viable solar electric power becomes. If you live in Pheonix and want to run you AC off of solar panels when it is sunny and 100 degrees that is ideal.

From a cost/benefit perspective even if I could save all of my automobile fuel expense, solar panels would not pay for them selves. I have no significant electrical power usage. The only thing would be if I got an electric car. I have no home air conditioning. Just appliances which don't seem to use all that much. I am all for conservation. But not wasting money, especially my own.

 

I'll concede that living In Tucson AZ solar is a more viable solution than those up north.

[auburnseeker]

Just review Faucci's own statements.   Even right up to the top positions in the country.  We will not issue any mandates yet here we are with many people in crucial rolls in medicine and even now supply chain with truckers having to get vaccinated or get fired because of mandates(the ones they weren't going to initiate) .  You can't fix a manpower problem by reducing the number of people to fill the open positions. 

I'm trying to keep this non political just pure straight facts.  Go to Epoch times as one source.  Yes Fox,  complain all you want but many of the stories list their source and even interview that person on air where they present the facts that support their belief unlike many unanimous sources were told to believe over the last couple of years. 

[Peter Gariepy]

6 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Just review Faucci's own statements.   Even right up to the top positions in the country.  We will not issue any mandates yet here we are with many people in crucial rolls in medicine and even now supply chain with truckers having to get vaccinated or get fired because of mandates(the ones they weren't going to initiate) .  You can't fix a manpower problem by reducing the number of people to fill the open positions. 

I'm trying to keep this non political just pure straight facts.  Go to Epoch times as one source.  Yes Fox,  complain all you want but many of the stories list their source and even interview that person on air where they present the facts that support their belief unlike many unanimous sources were told to believe over the last couple of years. 

 

Off topic.

[auburnseeker]

 

22 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

Bold statement.  Conveniently without details or sources.  

It's not off topic when you asked me to back up the comment you quoted me on.  That's what I'm backing up the 18 month statements with.

[1912Staver]

Peter, the fact that Auto makers are investing in EV production is no surprise . The general public has been given a PR job that EV's are going to save the world.  It's a huge sales / profit opportunity.

 I did read your links on the various causes of Climate Change , and I agree that there does seem to be a case to be made that much of it is Human caused. 

But as I see things EV's still are not more than only a little better for the environment than IC vehicles. And rising population numbers will easily undo that .  Also the widespread use of vehicles far to large compared to the normal use. Picking up a loaf of bread with a SUV or Pickup.

 I manage to get by with a little fuel sipping Hatchback. Very cheap to buy and operate.  And about the only thing I can't haul with it are sheets of plywood, or a load of gravel. It has brought more things home for me than most peoples trucks. Everything from engines to 12 Ft. 2 x 10's to a drum to drum 26 Hudson rear end. The pas. side front  seat comes out in about a minute . It's 10 years old so it is used as a little truck. But it is small, a 5 speed , peppy, and sips gas. When I have to buy a newer car I will just look for another, lower mile example. 99.9 % trouble free , oil changes, brakes and tires.

Edited October 26, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

15 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Peter, the fact that Auto makers are investing in EV production is no surprise . The general public has been given a PR job that EV's are going to save the world.  It's a huge sales / profit opportunity.

 

GM and other auto manufacturers most certainly are driven by demand of products, but also profits. 
Demand:  PR is certainly 1 factor, low(er) emissions being one the the big PR bullet points. Lower cost of ownership is also a big draw along with performance, features and quality.  Tesla proves that.

Profits:  Stakeholders are profit driven. Period.  In the case of GM, they wouldn't invest in EV to the tune of $35b if they didnt think they'd get a tidy return on investment.

 

As to population.... I agree. That may be the biggest driving factor on climate change.  But I think we can also agree, lower emission vehicles are a good start,  but we also have to go after the biggest polluters - corporations.  (source)

[Peter Gariepy]

21 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

 

It's not off topic when you asked me to back up the comment you quoted me on.  That's what I'm backing up the 18 month statements with.

 

I didn't realize your original vague statement was off topic or I would not have asked.

 

"If nothing else,  the last 18 months that we paused for 2 weeks for, show scientists (well a vast majority of them)  are about as accurate as the local weather man and change things about as often.  Follow the science felt more like follow the emotion.  Dark forces were at work at many bends. "

[alsancle]

35 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Just review Faucci's own statements.   Even right up to the top positions in the country.  We will not issue any mandates yet here we are with many people in crucial rolls in medicine and even now supply chain with truckers having to get vaccinated or get fired because of mandates(the ones they weren't going to initiate) .  You can't fix a manpower problem by reducing the number of people to fill the open positions. 

I'm trying to keep this non political just pure straight facts.  Go to Epoch times as one source.  Yes Fox,  complain all you want but many of the stories list their source and even interview that person on air where they present the facts that support their belief unlike many unanimous sources were told to believe over the last couple of years. 

 

Tsk tsk.  All politics and off topic points of view must be from the "correct" perspective.    The fact that we will be using oak leaves as toilet paper soon is irrelevant.

[auburnseeker]

Do any of you think maybe if we did forest management we could actually reduce the carbon footprint (in reducing the destruction of wildfires) more than chasing down every fossil fuel powered device and elminating it?  I know wild concept but I still would like to see a real study that shows carbon footprint from all fossil fueled pieces of equipment to the annual wildfire output.  

 

The little we do isn't going to have a huge affect if every country , right down to those developing countries get on board.  Better go after those Hummers we left behind in Afghanistan and make sure they have them all up to date on their emmissions test. 

[Peter Gariepy]

1 minute ago, alsancle said:

 

Tsk tsk.  All politics and off topic points of view must be from the "correct" perspective.    The fact that we will be using oak leaves as toilet paper soon is irrelevant.

 

Cactus pads for me.

[auburnseeker]

2 minutes ago, alsancle said:

The fact that we will be using oak leaves as toilet paper soon is irrelevant.

Good thing I have many nice big beautiful oaks on the property, so many not even the gypsy moths could strip them completely bare.  Boy when they hatch in the spring though it's going to be war if there is not TP and no oak leaves.  That might just be the final straw. 

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Do any of you think maybe if we did forest management we could actually reduce the carbon footprint (in reducing the destruction of wildfires) more than chasing down every fossil fuel powered device and elminating it?  I know wild concept but I still would like to see a real study that shows carbon footprint from all fossil fueled pieces of equipment to the annual wildfire output.  

 

The little we do isn't going to have a huge affect if every country , right down to those developing countries get on board.  Better go after those Hummers we left behind in Afghanistan and make sure they have them all up to date on their emmissions test. 

 

You don't think California eliminate gas powered lawn tools is gonna save the world?

 

[auburnseeker]

1 minute ago, alsancle said:

You don't think California eliminate gas powered lawn tools is gonna save the world?

No but regulating all the semis required to get the goods from the ships to us is really doing a dandy job.  The guys aren't buying the new semis because they aren't up to the job so less guys are hauling out of CA as per their regulations that no older semis are allowed to run in CA.  Fewer trucks running less pollution.  Problem solved.

 Umm but sir now there aren't enough to move the goods, oh well they'll have to learn to live with less.  See another problem solved.  It's all figured out,  until we run out of TP again ,  then all bets are off. 

 

You can't regulate yourself out of most problems as the regulations seem to be the cause of most of the problems. 

[Peter Gariepy]

Funny how now we are talking wildfires, power tools, trucking, semis, regulations and organic TP.   If thats not off topic I don't know what is.

Oh. wait.  Electric semi trucks are a thing!

 

https://www.tesla.com/semi

 

A little behind schedule, but coming soon.  https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a37143659/heres-why-the-tesla-semi-will-be-delayed/

 

 

 

[mike6024]

Yeah supposedly the co2 released by the fires in California has been only about 2/3rds of the co2 released by vehicles. I find that hard to believe, seems like fires release more than their estimates claim.

[auburnseeker]

You know those are wild ass estimates.  The tailpipe emission of a car is far less toxic than the entire car being burnt to a crisp and the garage it's parked in.  All i could think with the riots last summer was look at the carbon footprint of that car dealership they just torched.  I guess Arson is no longer a crime.  Who would have thought, shouldn't they have atleast been charged with an environmental crime?  

Edited October 26, 2021 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

3 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

You know those are wild ass estimates.  The tailpipe emission of a car is far less toxic than the entire car being burnt to a crisp and the garage it's parked in.  All i could think with the riots last summer was look at the carbon footprint of that car dealership they just torched.  I guess Arson is no longer a crime.  Who would have thought, shouldn't they have atleast been charged with an environmental crime?  

 

All evident to the contrary. (source)