Walt G Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 From my archives ( I have way to much stuff) these pages are from a Pierce Arrow Straight Eight data book ( that title is on the cover) dated January 1, 1930 . Data books were small enough to fit in a salesman's pocket in his jacket so he could astound all the perspective customers with his outstanding knowledge . This book is 95 pages (!!!) I am guessing but for every data book given to a dealership for a salesman to use ( maybe 5 maximum ?) there were hundreds of sales folders, flyers and catalogs printed. All much prettier with pictures and art work but now the data books if you can find them are somewhat scarce and have so much more information. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Walt G, A bit of drift. I lucked into one of those salesman's data books for my Paige model 6-45! A lot of information in such a small pocket size book. I have often wondered how many car companies printed such books? I have only seen a handful of others over the years. Most likely, nearly all of them were thrown away within a couple years after the next model came along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 5 hours ago, Walt G said: From my archives ( I have way to much stuff) these pages are from a Pierce Arrow Straight Eight data book ( that title is on the cover) dated January 1, 1930 . Data books were small enough to fit in a salesman's pocket in his jacket so he could astound all the perspective customers with his outstanding knowledge . This book is 95 pages (!!!) I am guessing but for every data book given to a dealership for a salesman to use ( maybe 5 maximum ?) there were hundreds of sales folders, flyers and catalogs printed. All much prettier with pictures and art work but now the data books if you can find them are somewhat scarce and have so much more information. Sent you a PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 3 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: Walt G, A bit of drift. I lucked into one of those salesman's data books for my Paige model 6-45! A lot of information in such a small pocket size book. I have often wondered how many car companies printed such books? I have only seen a handful of others over the years. Most likely, nearly all of them were thrown away within a couple years after the next model came along. Wayne, I know that Franklin, Pierce Arrow, Packard, Plymouth, Chrysler, Buick , Chevrolet , Oldsmobile, Cadillac, as well as others produced a salesman's data book . Some were stapled at the binding, others spiral ring bound , some loose leaf. I have one that has a small paste in area over something to correct /update what was said there. As you state , not easy to locate, and I agree that once a year or so old they were discarded or stacked in a pile on a shelf in a closet to make room for the new years models that had the latest specs and information. Some were saved after the year was over because they may have yielded information when cars were sold used and customers for those may have had questions. They, like period photographs give a broad picture ( no pun intended) of what features the cars had even compared with others by the same manufacturer this one on the 1930 P-A covers all series ( A,B,C) offered notes all body styles, wheelbases rear axle ratios etc. Even notes the type of material the gas tank was made of ! (Terne plate 12 pound lead coated) The data books seem to have come about after WWI when there were a lot of men leaving the armed service with $ in their pockets that they earned and were in the market for a car and wanted to know more then what colors they came in. The more informed a salesman at a dealer was the better the chance a sale could be consummated. Walt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 On 8/15/2021 at 3:17 PM, wayne sheldon said: Really! I am disappointed. But it is still a beautiful automobile! So now I am adding to MY confused state. I wanted to verify if the wheels were steel or wood so I took a magnet and guess what - now I believe they are wood (again) wheels because the magnet did not stick. It stuck everywhere else. I hope I got this right this time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 On 8/15/2021 at 3:17 PM, wayne sheldon said: Really! I am disappointed. But it is still a beautiful automobile! I now think, again, that the wheels are wood because the magnet did not stick !!!! Confused yet? I am. 23 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said: Those wheels are the best metal version of wood spokes I've ever seen! See above 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 Okay Ed, I was able to take some pics of the engine (passenger) side today 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 Did a little bit more cleaning today. And, guess what? I was able to access behind the rear seat(s) and lo and behold what do you think was back there? The side curtains to the car - the plastic "windows" are brittle but at least I have the curtains 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) That chrome is coming back nicely! Solid older restorations are like the best of both worlds. They have a solid look and feel of a car that has been around for a long time (I get tired of the over-used word "patina"?). Without the fragility of a true original. To me, fresh restorations, no matter how perfect they are, tend to look more like something new, and even 'plastic like'. Probably one of the main reasons (other than lack of dollars!) I never really got into show cars. That looks like it should clean up and look wonderful, and be a car that can be driven and truly enjoyed to the maximum! Congratulations on finding the side curtains! Are they the originals? Or restoration remakes? Edited August 17, 2021 by wayne sheldon I hate leaving typos! (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Can we see photos of the splash pans in the engine compartment? I would like to see photos of the side curtains also. 👍👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Don’t make any attempt to turn the car over with a battery. First things first. Put two ounces of thin oil, Desiel fuel, or atf down the plug holes. I would use atf if it were my car. Nothing else! No acetone or other concoctions. Joe, we should talk sometime this week. Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 18, 2021 Author Share Posted August 18, 2021 8 hours ago, wayne sheldon said: That chrome is coming back nicely! Solid older restorations are like the best of both worlds. They have a solid look and feel of a car that has been around for a long time (I get tired of the over-used word "patina"?). Without the fragility of a true original. To me, fresh restorations, no matter how perfect they are, tend to look more like something new, and even 'plastic like'. Probably one of the main reasons (other than lack of dollars!) I never really got into show cars. That looks like it should clean up and look wonderful, and be a car that can be driven and truly enjoyed to the maximum! Congratulations on finding the side curtains! Are they the originals? Or restoration remakes? No sure about the side curtains (original or not). I will have to be very careful removing them from the storage area. Then I can take a better look. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 On 8/12/2021 at 11:52 AM, Joe Cocuzza said: Pics of the Pierce coming home today Okay people, let's see how attentive you are. Looking at these pictures can anyone tell me what is incorrect on the car? I was unsure myself until I looked at a bunch of other Pierce Arrows on line. As a matter of fact I questioned it the day I got the car. Oh Yeah!!!! No booby prize will be awarded. Just a chance to show off your knowledge and keen eyes. No hints right now...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Too easy.......have a more difficult issue? 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) Strangely, the car is missing the top saddles...........thus the top can not be put down. Rear tires only have 14.7 pounds of air pressure............they need 40. 😜 Whats up with the 1934 engine? Bet that made your heart skip a beat! 😝 Just because your new, doesn’t mean we won’t bust your balls! Edited August 19, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Sometimes, I like to make a fool of myself. Prove that I am not as smart as some people think I think I am. Maybe stick my neck out and see how far off I can be? The trim work on top of the body sides alongside the rear seat isn't finished off properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 3 hours ago, edinmass said: Strangely, the car is missing the top saddles...........thus the top can not be put down. Rear tires only have 14.7 pounds of air pressure............they need 40. 😜 Whats up with the 1934 engine? Bet that made your heart skip a beat! 😝 Just because your new, doesn’t mean we won’t bust your balls! Ed, Don't do that to me !!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said: Sometimes, I like to make a fool of myself. Prove that I am not as smart as some people think I think I am. Maybe stick my neck out and see how far off I can be? The trim work on top of the body sides alongside the rear seat isn't finished off properly? Nope. That's not the answer I was looking for. Maybe I shouldn't have opened a can of worms here and have everyone pointing out many more faults with the car other than what I can see. I don't want to be discouraged by the experts ravaging my car. I will say that the "mistake" is on the outside of the car - I hope I am right in saying something is wrong but from all of the pictures I have looked at it is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Drivers side door handle doesn't look like the rest. Different style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Running Board Rubber ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Laughing Coyote said: Drivers side door handle doesn't look like the rest. Different style? You are so close. It has to do with the door handles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 34 minutes ago, Marty Roth said: Running Board Rubber ?? I hope not ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Then the three are facing the wrong direction? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 29 minutes ago, Laughing Coyote said: Then the three are facing the wrong direction? DING DING DING !!!!!! You got it.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 7 hours ago, Joe Cocuzza said: Ed, Don't do that to me !!!!!! Joe......just trying to welcome you and make you feel like one of the regulars. We could do a personality profile for you also if you like. 😎 Under look looks exceptionally correct..........I only see one possible issue, it’s an easy fix, and I can’t be sure because the photo isn’t clear. Top saddles are missing, and it’s common that they are on touring cars. It’s been a while since I played with a 1930.......if memory serves me they are external and hang off the top of the coachwork.......which means no paint or body work to deal with..........thus an easy fix, once you fabricated them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 2 hours ago, edinmass said: Joe......just trying to welcome you and make you feel like one of the regulars. We could do a personality profile for you also if you like. 😎 Under look looks exceptionally correct..........I only see one possible issue, it’s an easy fix, and I can’t be sure because the photo isn’t clear. Top saddles are missing, and it’s common that they are on touring cars. It’s been a while since I played with a 1930.......if memory serves me they are external and hang off the top of the coachwork.......which means no paint or body work to deal with..........thus an easy fix, once you fabricated them. Ed, Do you have a picture of what you are talking about because I cannot visualize what they look like? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) On 8/16/2021 at 4:35 PM, Walt G said: Wayne, I know that Franklin, Pierce Arrow, Packard, Plymouth, Chrysler, Buick , Chevrolet , Oldsmobile, Cadillac, as well as others produced a salesman's data book . Some were stapled at the binding, others spiral ring bound , some loose leaf. I have one that has a small paste in area over something to correct /update what was said there. As you state , not easy to locate, and I agree that once a year or so old they were discarded or stacked in a pile on a shelf in a closet to make room for the new years models that had the latest specs and information. Some were saved after the year was over because they may have yielded information when cars were sold used and customers for those may have had questions. They, like period photographs give a broad picture ( no pun intended) of what features the cars had even compared with others by the same manufacturer this one on the 1930 P-A covers all series ( A,B,C) offered notes all body styles, wheelbases rear axle ratios etc. Even notes the type of material the gas tank was made of ! (Terne plate 12 pound lead coated) The data books seem to have come about after WWI when there were a lot of men leaving the armed service with $ in their pockets that they earned and were in the market for a car and wanted to know more then what colors they came in. The more informed a salesman at a dealer was the better the chance a sale could be consummated. I have a few years of Studebaker Salesman's Data Books. The truck ones were most informative, showing everything, even charts on what a bushel of grain weighed, and the size of stake body he would need to haul it. They were in loose-leaf binders, and generally, the binder was held onto for several years, while the contents were updated on an annual basis. I even have some that were never inserted into the binder. That is correct, the Used Car department at the dealership often got at least one copy of discarded inserts at then end of the current model year, and would sometimes have a ten-year pile of Data Book inserts. Unlike the Color & Upholstery binders (another topic in itself) which usually sat out on a table in the showroom, these more informative Data Books always remained in a salesman's office, or suit pocket. Craig Edited August 20, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Joe Cocuzza said: Ed, Do you have a picture of what you are talking about because I cannot visualize what they look like? Joe Joe : Not for a Pierce but similar. Leif Holmberg's 1925 Buick Model 25 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, dibarlaw said: Joe : Not for a Pierce but similar. Leif Holmberg's 1925 Buick Model 25 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Sorry Joe, no photos....maybe Dave C can put a few up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 4 hours ago, dibarlaw said: Joe : Not for a Pierce but similar. Leif Holmberg's 1925 Buick Model 25 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 Ed, Is what you said true about not being able to put the top down because the top saddles are missing? I will probably never put the top down anyway. Also, do you have any pictures of the top bows from inside the car? Thanks, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Joe Cocuzza said: Ed, Is what you said true about not being able to put the top down because the top saddles are missing? I will probably never put the top down anyway. Also, do you have any pictures of the top bows from inside the car? Thanks, Joe I was planning to put the top down when I test drive it.........🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, edinmass said: I was planning to put the top down when I test drive it.........🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 57 minutes ago, Joe Cocuzza said: Don't laugh.....look at our shop motto below where it lists my cars and clubs.......... "Drive it like you stole it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 Not much going on. Went back to work this week after the surgery so time is limited. I did, however, find the original side curtains (with the rods) behind the back seat. They are not useable but at least I have them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Nice find! Usually best to see the real thing. Photos, copies, other people' curtains you hope were the same are all one thing. Maybe your trimmer can get the details right? Maybe not. Cars varied a lot, year to year, model to model, even month to month. Details changed. Having the originals and you can have proper copies made. Beautiful Pierce! Take care of you also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 1 hour ago, wayne sheldon said: Nice find! Usually best to see the real thing. Photos, copies, other people' curtains you hope were the same are all one thing. Maybe your trimmer can get the details right? Maybe not. Cars varied a lot, year to year, model to model, even month to month. Details changed. Having the originals and you can have proper copies made. Beautiful Pierce! Take care of you also. Thanks Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 Messing around with the paint a little Also, I "fixed" the exterior door handles. They were facing the wrong way. Was able to get 7 of the 8 plugs out and started soaking the cylinders. The last plug to remove, cylinder #4, is being stubborn but I'll get it out I just need to find a 15/16th deep socket to help coax it along. One question: Are the radiator shutters thermostatically controlled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) The winter front is controlled by a shutter thermostat in the top tank of the radiator.........don’t worry, it’s not working! Just the joy of an early car. Nothing 400 bucks won’t fix...........😎 You need some hood door latch levers........ Edited August 22, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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