55fast Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 I have a 52 ply coupe and I was wondering if later style drum brakes would fit this car. I want to get away from the lockheed brks and use something more user friendly. I don't want the expense of a disc brk conversion, I just can't afford it. Thanks for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 Why don't you like the brakes that are on there now? They work well if restored to like new condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55fast Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) I'm helping out a friend of mine that own's the car. He has tried repeatedly to get the brakes adjusted properly and has had no luck. I have sent him the info on how to adjust them and it seems it confuses him about 1/2 way thru, I would go and help him but he is 400 miles away in southern calif. I even sent write ups of how to make a tool to do this but he just doesn't get it which surprises me as he is a very capable mechanic, did maint. work for a large airplane builder so he's no dummy. He was asking about the newer drum brakes as he doesn't have the money to spend on a disc update which is around a $1000 or so and a couple days of work on his back, he's in his mid 80's. I am sending him some more write up's on adjusting the brakes tomorrow and hopefully that will help. He has replaced all he brake components, shoe's, w/c's , m/c, ect. Has the arrows pointing in the right direction. Edited July 26, 2021 by 55fast (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 Not a Plymouth expert but likely the system in a non-servo design. (the shoes do not slide on the backing plates) If so. then YES, adjustments are not intuitive. The biggest thing is to abandon want you know about servo brakes and start from scratch and READ THE BOOK (shop manual) following each step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 Have him go to a good brake shop and have them go over the compleat brake system. That is not beyond a shops ability. It would be much cheaper than trying to change over to a different system. On these cars you almost need to have proper tools or be able to understand the way the system works and how it is adjusted. I have a '48 Plymout and did the job without the special tool but did know what the tool was for and how to do the job without it. It can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 Suggest your friend let an old time mechanic set up the brakes. To get them right you need to contour the shoes to fit the drums then do a major adjustment so they fit perfect. After that, an occasional minor adjustment to take up wear which is simple to do. It may cost a little money to get the brakes done but far less than replacing them completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) If you have an extra discarded drum, a window can be cut into it for a feeler gague. That will get the initial adjustment taken care of. Edited July 26, 2021 by JFranklin (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55fast Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 Thanks for all the replies,I'll pass the info on to my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 You also need to remember that altering the braking system destroys the collector value of an original car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55fast Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 yes that is true, but this one has been set up with a small block chevy and auto trans, it's just a Saturday night cruiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 14 minutes ago, 55fast said: yes that is true, but this one has been set up with a small block chevy and auto trans, it's just a Saturday night cruiser. It never ceases to amaze me how many vehicles wind up getting repowered by a small block Chevy. Those guys at Chevy back in 1955 sure hit a homer in with that engine design. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, TerryB said: It never ceases to amaze me how many vehicles wind up getting repowered by a small block Chevy. Those guys at Chevy back in 1955 sure hit a homer in with that engine design. Since the answer has been given and with the mods already disclosed, I'll go off topic also. When I was a kid I bought a 57 Chevrolet 2 dr . it had a '59 corvette 283 with stock rated HP @ 305 .With mods it was dynoed @ 335 HP. It was blueprinted, clearanced, & had modified breathing somewhat + 3 speed trans. That car was a fun street racer especially when the beat driver found his 396 was beat by a 283 3speed car Edited July 27, 2021 by JFranklin comma (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55fast Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 Yea, I remember those days, the Mighty Mouse does it again. So back to the brakes, can’t think of anything that would work? I’ll just tell him to just keep on playing with it and sooner or later he will get it done . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, 55fast said: Yea, I remember those days, the Mighty Mouse does it again. So back to the brakes, can’t think of anything that would work? I’ll just tell him to just keep on playing with it and sooner or later he will get it done . Be aware some of the new issue wheel cylinders for that car have been found to have brake shoe activating pins that are longer than original and they can make shoe adjustments and brake bleeding difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55fast Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 How would you know what length they should be. I don’t know if he still has the original parts he took off, but I will ask. It’s hard to communicate with him as he does not have email or mobile phone, can’t send or receive pictures ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 On another thread recently the person found he could not bleed the wheel cylinders because the piston was too far back into the bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 This thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) Take it to a shop, they are the experts with all the factory data. They will maKe the brakes work properly. The parts are mostly available. Second choice would be to go with disc conversion. Just use the Visa card either way. now it is done. Edited July 27, 2021 by JFranklin (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 The only time my cars will go to a shop is when I am dead! If you don't know how to do it, use google and look up manuals or U tube. Then use common sense. 🛠️👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 7 hours ago, Roger Walling said: The only time my cars will go to a shop is when I am dead! If you don't know how to do it, use google and look up manuals or U tube. Then use common sense. Excellent for you, but did you read where the owner is 80 years old and . . . 20 hours ago, 55fast said: It’s hard to communicate with him as he does not have email or mobile phone, can’t send or receive pictures ☹️ A real old school communication situation 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 22 hours ago, 55fast said: It’s hard to communicate with him as he does not have email or mobile phone, can’t send or receive pictures ☹️ So saving all that money forgoing technology, he should go the disc brake route if he can't get the original brakes to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55fast Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 that's what he is thinking, but time will tell. I have printed out a lot of info on adjusting the brakes and on how to make a "ammaco 1750" tool. Hope this will help him as I don't see myself going in that direction (southern calif) any time soon. I'll post a fix if there is one in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 I have thought of drilling a small hole in the drum and using a wire type feeler gauge like a spark plug gauge to set the clearance. Some cars came stock with holes in the brake drum to inspect for wear or for adjustment, VW for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Well at the risk of being universally condemned I will say since I Have no access to the magic Ammco tool for Mopar brakes I was forced to set the shoes to the drums the old fashioned way on my 1952 Plymouth. I rough set them using an Ammco tool used to measure the inside of the drum on one edge and the other edge is used to set the shoes. I then many times did the minor adjustments spinning the drum and making a change and repeat until I was satisfied. Is it perfect. No, but it works well, doesn’t pull either way, and stops acceptability. And yes, I look far ahead and try to plan everything to be safe. As they are wearing in some I have made minor adjustments as needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, plymouthcranbrook said: Well at the risk of being universally condemned I will say since I Have no access to the magic Ammco tool for Mopar brakes I was forced to set the shoes to the drums the old fashioned way on my 1952 Plymouth. I rough set them using an Ammco tool used to measure the inside of the drum on one edge and the other edge is used to set the shoes. I then many times did the minor adjustments It sounds like you did have the magic tool and did as the book instructs. It can be done (if careful) without any special tools. One manual I have walks you through the whole procedure to adjust if the tool is not available, which I used, and now have excellent brakes for good stopping. I think my cylinders came from Kanter. Edited July 28, 2021 by JFranklin (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 I guess the magic tool I had was patience as I spent good part of two days on it. A fellow member of the local POC(who had a tool)told me they would never be right. That was seven years ago. So as you say, it can be done if done carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 18 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said: I rough set them using an Ammco tool used to measure the inside of the drum on one edge and the other edge is used to set the shoes. I had thought you said you used the Armmco tool made to set the lining to trim clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) Not the one you are thinking of. Somewhat like this one. https://www.ebay.com/itm/133830306862?hash=item1f28e86c2e:g:-RwAAOSwUP9g~0v3 Edited July 28, 2021 by plymouthcranbrook (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55fast Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 I have one like that, problem is the car is 400 miles away so it's hard to repair a car over the phone (landline) But thanks for the info. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 2 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said: Not the one you are thinking of. Somewhat like this one. https://www.ebay.com/itm/133830306862?hash=item1f28e86c2e:g:-RwAAOSwUP9g~0v3 AHA! now I see. That might be of some help but wasn't what I was thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 We never had "the tool" back in the 60's and 70's. We just put new shoes on...adjusted them out against the drum Drove the car a couple weeks every day....back then it was your every day driver....then did another wind the shoes outward against the drum adjustment. Did that two to three times. The pedal came up high and rock hard. No magic brake tool used. Just wear in of the shoe lining to the drum. Always leave the anchor arrows at the factory pointing position. These Lockheed brake system cars stop excellent ...at least back in the days using the good asbestos shoe linings. Today's modern all you can get drum linings do not perform predictably and safely IMO. I now only use old stock asbestos linings. Safe proper feel of stopping power. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Here are instructions from the Grey-Rock brake book from 1955. Maybe this will be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55fast Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 Thanks I will print it out and send it down to my buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broker-len Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 check this U tub piece--------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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