Piotr M Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Just offered for sale in NJ this 1940 Darrin Convertible. E-bay link in my next message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piotr M Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 https://m.ebay.pl/itm/1940-Packard-Darrin/293667781641?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Da78f9c9dd07e4920bc837654874da600%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D293667781641%26itm%3D293667781641%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Af340fdea-d254-11ea-8618-74dbd180715d|parentrq%3A9f6870cf1730aad92a45e83affe22bf7|iid%3A1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piotr M Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Here is a cleaner link. Owned by a very well known Packard collector I believe. Reminds me of the Willys Knight that the Dragone's are selling. A very cool car that can't support the restoration costs. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1940-Packard-Darrin/293667781641 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 The later Connersville built cars and Dayton 41/42 cars are well built and should not be confused with the 38/39 hand built ones from LA. The ones with the 180 engine are fantastic tour cars and I can attest to keeping up with Duesenbergs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I'm not sure this car can't justify a restoration. Darrin prices have been pretty consistent and quite strong, with some blowing through the quarter-million figure (I know of at least one that brought more than $400K). On the other hand, it may be like many other cars where there's a small group of wealthy individuals looking for such cars, and once they're satisfied the market evaporates (see 1953 Buick Skylark, for example). Still an easy six-figure car no matter what when it's finished. These are very challenging restorations (that interior will be an easy $50K), although the hardware underneath is robust and easy enough to restore and they're awesome to drive despite the somewhat poor visibility. I personally like the '40s the best--big 356 engine, overdrive, and stand-alone headlights. Our area here in northeast Ohio seems to be Packard Darrin Central--The Tareshawty and Hanlon collections probably have between them more than 20 Darrins, and there are a dozen other single Darrin owners. The guys who love them seem to REALLY love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said: I'm not sure this car can't justify a restoration. Darrin prices have been pretty consistent and quite strong, with some blowing through the quarter-million figure (I know of at least one that brought more than $400K). On the other hand, it may be like many other cars where there's a small group of wealthy individuals looking for such cars, and once they're satisfied the market evaporates (see 1953 Buick Skylark, for example). Still an easy six-figure car no matter what when it's finished. These are very challenging restorations (that interior will be an easy $50K), although the hardware underneath is robust and easy enough to restore and they're awesome to drive despite the somewhat poor visibility. I personally like the '40s the best--big 356 engine, overdrive, and stand-alone headlights. Our area here in northeast Ohio seems to be Packard Darrin Central--The Tareshawty and Hanlon collections probably have between them more than 20 Darrins, and there are a dozen other single Darrin owners. The guys who love them seem to REALLY love them. There were a couple of high blips around 400k but I think 250 to 300k buys you a nice real one. The 40 cars are more "custom" than the 41/42, although the later seem to bring more money for some reason. The 38-40 have the big suicide doors while the 41/42 have conventional doors. I think total Darrin production for the 5 year period was around 100 cars with 1940 being the big production year of around 40 odd cars. So compared to the 53 skylark there is not a big supply. Each car is individually numbered in a bunch of hidden spots. BUYER BEWARE there are a bunch of fake cars floating around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 2 hours ago, alsancle said: A very cool car that can't support the restoration costs. 1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said: I'm not sure this car can't justify a restoration. Lets see, 50K to buy and at minimum 250K to restore = Whose 300K will we use ? Sidenote: Does the purchaser get a passenger's side door (seems to not be in any photos and conveniently not mentioned) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, John_Mereness said: Lets see, 50K to buy and at minimum 250K to restore = Whose 300K will we use ? Sidenote: Does the purchaser get a passenger's side door (seems to not be in any photos and conveniently not mentioned) ? That is a real "Suicide Door". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) The project car above has an advantage.....the entire engine, drive line, and chassis can be done very well for relatively little money compared to most valuable pre war cars. It's a one man job to do the entire chassis stem to stern at Pebble standards, and easily done in 6 months. So that is a big plus towards it getting done. While the body would be a challenge, it's easier than a sedan or convertible sedan. The car will find a buyer, and someone will do it......just because the appeal of a new, never seen custom car from that era will want some kind of retirement project. All it takes is time and money. Edited July 30, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) For those financially capable, your chance to have a 1940 Packard Darrin trimmed and finished to your exact taste. Why worry about the expense? Note this Citizens Motor Car Co. advertisement was September 15, 1940, clearance time to get those soon-to-be discounted leftover 1940 models off the lot. The introduction day for the new Nineteenth Series 1941 Packard: September 16, 1940. Edited July 30, 2020 by 58L-Y8 forgot the advertisement image (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 16 minutes ago, edinmass said: The project car above has an advantage.....the entire engine, drive line, and chassis can be done very well for relatively little money compared to most valuable pre war cars. It's a one man job to do the entire chassis stem to stern at Pebble standards, and easily done in 6 months. So that is a big plus towards it getting done. While the body would be a challenge, it's easier than a sedan or convertible sedan. The car will find a buyer, and someone will do it......just because the appeal of a new, never seen custom car from that era will want some kind of retirement project. All it takes is time and money. Agreed, money will not be spent on drive-train - it will be spent on everything else though. When I did the 41, we just bought a sedan with a freshly restored drivetain and then redetailed to higher 100 point standards (cost like 17K all said and done, had a bunch of extra parts I wanted to improve upon that I traded from one car to the other, and then sold what was left to recover 4.5K back) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Actually, I was surprised something like this is still around not restored. I had a fellow text me this week that wanted a 1935-1937 Packard 12 Convertible Sedan - I told him I had probably the finest unrestored 35 Twelve surviving (and actually a better car base product wise than most of the restored ones - aka it has always been a really nice car and does not need restored, but far from an untouched car so you get the pluses of people having worked on and kept it up over time) and his reply was that he did not want to go "that high" in price. Interestingly, I do not know where you would get one cheaper - a couple 37's rotting around that are pretty difficult/horrendously difficult projects, but they hardly made any 35 and 36's to begin and most are already CCCA Senior cars = there are another 3 -1935's in the directory and there are 7 - 1936's listed - does not take long to make 11 phone calls to see what is out there (doubt there if another 3 to 5 over the 11 exist - if that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 56 minutes ago, alsancle said: That is a real "Suicide Door". That door is a surprisingly expensive fabrication project (especially if no pattern other than the other side) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Good points. It would be interesting to know if this is a 120 or 180. I’m guessing 120 since it isn’t specified. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) The right side door lays inside, the door handle and upper surface show in the third photo looking forward along the right side. The hood vents look to be 120. The taillights are 120. Edited July 30, 2020 by 58L-Y8 120 hood vents (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said: The right side door lays inside, the door handle and upper surface show in the third photo looking forward along the right side. The hood vents look to be 120. The taillights are 120. You are right. I should have picked up on that. I wonder why the door isn't mounted? I think the B pillar is steel so it shouldn't be about rot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said: The right side door lays inside, the door handle and upper surface show in the third photo looking forward along the right side. The hood vents look to be 120. The taillights are 120. Interesting - I put it on the huge high resolution screen - you would think they would have stuck it in hole or had it somewhere more in sight ... for photos to sell Noticed the small taillights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) I wish they had included a photo inside the trunk so we could see the inside wheelhouse. I'll never forget how shocked I was when I saw that area on the the '40 Darrin that belonged to the late Lisle Hopkins, the metal was crudely cut in a radial pattern around the wheel center, overlapped as the deck was rotated down in the front and raised in the rear and hammer-welded together. In my one and only conversation with Jim Hollingsworth at the Centennial, he referred to them as "Darrin's cut-'n-paste customs" Hehehehe... that's good, and very apt...! Edited July 30, 2020 by 58L-Y8 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Decades ago there was a great fellow I knew from California who grew up in the area where the Darrin shop was located - all of this in the late 1930s. We had some interesting and enlightening /informative conversations as to his observations then as a car crazy young guy about Howard Darrin, Darrin's attraction to most "skirts" that would walk by his shop as well as the quality level of the wood used to fabricate the framework for the bodies of the cars under construction. John M. will recognize the name of my friend - Bob Grim , from when we used to hang out at Franklin Club annual "treks" in central N.Y. state. I was fascinated by what Bob Grim had to tell, he was a good narrator and it felt like I was there with him when he viewed what was ( or wasn't) going on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 With the limited production of this car, would there be a registry or some type of provenance showing ownership history? Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, GregLaR said: With the limited production of this car, would there be a registry or some type of provenance showing ownership history? Greg There is not. Years ago (30) there was an owner then went around collecting info from all the Darrin owners he came in contact with. I have no idea what he did with that information. It is actually not hard to sniff out a fake. This car is definitely real. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 At least two well-known people over the years made a business out of faking the Darrin’s. Some of them are pretty good jobs. I wouldn’t buy one unless the history went back into the 40s. In today’s market absolutely everything is provenance. If you don’t have it you don’t have a car. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, edinmass said: At least two well-known people over the years made a business out of faking the Darrin’s. Some of them are pretty good jobs. I wouldn’t buy one unless the history went back into the 40s. In today’s market absolutely everything is provenance. If you don’t have it you don’t have a car. You don't need to go to the 40s, but you need to get cleanly past the 80s when the new firewalls got cast out in Washington/Oregon. I would probably buy a car with history back to the early 70s, its original data plates and the body number clearly stamped in the secret places. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41 Su8 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 4 hours ago, alsancle said: Good points. It would be interesting to know if this is a 120 or 180. I’m guessing 120 since it isn’t specified. If the engine and all the bolt on parts are original, it is a 120. Note the 120 water outlet on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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