'29 Dodge Carb

[Bob Zetnick]

I have my original (or at least since I've owned the car in  '71) Stromberg U2 carb on my '29 DA. I've rebuilt it and all looks good regarding cracks in the pot metal..... the car runs well with it also. I've seen different posts where people say that the old pot metal carbs should be replaced with one poster stating they had (or heard of) a car destroyed due to a carb falling apart while driving....not trying to be dramatic, but I am only familiar w/ this particular pot metal carb and not sure of its metal characteristics. I am also thinking of the future when the car goes to someone else and perhaps when the pot metal finally goes will there be an alternative or repro carb to keep the car going. So, I'm thinking of a few options:

 

1) Keep the original on the car, but have a replacement backup.

2) Get a repro replacement...Myers carries one in aluminum.... very, very pricey, but would look original to car and be an easy fit.

3) Get a replacement that would work...I hear a Carter BB-1A is a replacement (can anyone verify?), but don't know if it will interchange well w/ linkage, etc.

 

I guess I'm asking thoughts on this and what have others done when dealing w/ these old pot metal carbs (or other pieces like distributors, starter switch, etc.) on their cars. Thanks in advance!

 

 

[old car fan]

If it runs,no signs of disintegration,use it.

[Bullfrog_eng]

Bob,

I think the carb that Myers supply is produced by Glen Smith in Queensland, Australia. It is worth noting that as well as complete carburetors, he can supply parts, for example just the bowl top. In other words, if yours is not bad, but only needs a new bowl top, he can supply it. That is what I did, the throat was OK, but there were some parts that Glen suggested strengthening with Devcon Plastic Steel and I then replaced the base and float top with his reproductions.

Have a look at his site https://vintageandclassicreproductions.com/

It is worth noting that with the state of the exchange rate (at the moment $1 US = $1.59AUS) it may not be as bad as you think.

I have also seen some that were in pretty good condition and some that were absolutely stuffed. I suspect this may be dependent on the environment that they have been in. My suggestion would be to keep using yours if it is not too bad and/or upgrade the bits that are not too good. Picking up spares from swap meets/ebay is also a good idea, as you sometimes see some pretty bad ones for sale, but fittings, jets, etc are OK and if you do need a Glen Smith repro, you will need to supply those bits anyway.

Hope that helps.

John

[stakeside]

If you find a BB-1 be sure and verify the model  for your application. These carbs are available since they were used up into the the 50’s on COE CHEVY trucks which uses a fuel pump instead of the gravity feed fuel supply. I purchased one on e-bay. It arrived with a rebuild kit and after rebuilding I  was unable to get the acceleration circuit to work properly. Engine stall under acceleration. I find that some other internal springs may need to be replaced. 

Made decision best to have the original Stewart  Detroit rebuild. Rebuild will be as much as my purchased BB-1.

[C Carl]

21 hours ago, Bullfrog_eng said:

 

I have also seen some that were in pretty good condition and some that were absolutely stuffed. I suspect this may be dependent on the environment that they have been in. 

John

 

Hi John and all,

There is variability in the composition, and therefore, durability of different batches of pot metal. Depends on what metals went into the pot. The resultant product is an amalgam in every case. Quite different from an alloy, in which the atoms of all of its components link-up in a totally uniform lattice. This produces a somewhat new metal, a "designer" metal, of predictably metallurgically engineered properties. These properties differ a bit from those of the pure, original, now alloyed, elemental precursor. In the case of an amalgam, no such uniform and "cooperative" latticing takes place. All components retain their original properties throughout the mixture. They may live in harmony if intentionally and knowingly engineered and mixed. Or, if left to chance, depending on what is thrown in the mix, the amalgam will have a greater or lesser propensity to self-destruct. This is  due to galvanic erosion between the dissimilar metals over time. When the original pot metal pieces were made, surely they were more than adequate for the intended design life of the product. Who would have thought a few goofy old fools would still be trying to put the obsolete junk to use 50 - 100 years later !!!!   🤪.     Your goofy and foolish forum friend,    -    Cadillac Carl 

[Ron Lawson]

Very well explained  C C The DB Seniors have their share of the old pot metal an like you I am  a goofy old restorer keeping these oldies going 

[RWPerry]

I have had a lot of the pot metal disease with my Senior. After having three Stromberg TX-3 Carbs fall apart I saw the article on Carter BB-1 carbs by Harry Redding in the Dodge Club magazine a few years ago. I found one with the right number for the Senior ( I found a chart on line listing applications). I had to make an adaptor since the bolt holes where 90 degrees off and used some exhaust adapters to fit the air cleaner. The car fired right up and after a little bit of tweaking on the carb it has been running great ever since. We do mostly touring but if I wanted to be in a judging event, I can very easily replace the carb with the one Stromberg carb I have that will still work somewhat.

[stakeside]

The BB-1 I purchased did not have a tag number and I could not verify application for my DA-6. 
RWPerry I would like to know what issue of DB Club magazine had article on BB -1 by H Redding. 

[carbking]

The Carter type BB-1 carbs CAN be somewhat challenging to identify; especially since they have been in favor with old car enthusiasts for many years. Carburetors get "married" (others use a different term) by enthusiasts who are trying to make the carb fit on a different engine, or enthusiasts who know no better, or (worse case) some vendors selling carbs whose sales pitch "here is what you need, what do you need it to fit?".

 

As to the accelerator pump, no offense meant to anyone, but absolutely no reason the accelerator pump should not work. There is a caged inlet check valve, a caged outlet check valve, a pump cylinder, a piston, an inlet passage, and a discharge passage.

 

Rarely (but it does happen) one of the passageways becomes clogged in a carb that sits at the bottom of a pond for 150 years (give or take a year or so)

 

Passageways should always be checked during the rebuild.

 

Unlike the check valves in many carburetors, the check valves in the BB-1 are caged, in a threaded enclosure. Generally, they may be cleaned, and reused. If not, unscrew the old one, and replace it with new. New ones are available.

 

The pump plunger is brass, it does not wear out; but new ones are available if one is somehow damaged.

 

The "fly in the ointment" generally is the pump spring, which will over time fatigue. New springs come in the good rebuilding kits. I would suggest ALWAYS replacing the spring if you rebuild the carburetor.

 

Carbs that sit unused for a long period of time, even on a running car, can have the piston stick; especially if the pump spring is old. If this is the case, remove the pump pivot screw from the pump operating linkage, and pull the pump UP (no, you don't need to disassemble the carb). Pulling the pump upward will break loose a pump that has stuck from evaporated fuel.

 

Here is a link to a PDF file of the original Carter service instructions. I have written authority to publish this material. It may be used, downloaded, printed, whatever.

 

Carter BB-1 factory service instructions

 

The BB-1 ranks third highest on my list of replacement updraft carburetors, with a numeric score of 9.25 out of a possible 10. The Stromberg SF/SFM series, and the Zenith 63/263 series are tied for first and second with a numeric score of 9.5 out of 10. A 9.25 is still an "A", almost an "A+". Just wish Carter had used a vacuum accelerator pump like the Stromberg and Zenith models.

 

The most common issue with the BB-1 is probably the fuel inlet valve. Fuel inlet valves came in three different thread configurations for O.E. (based on what the O.E. company wanted for a fuel line fitting) AND several different orifice sizes from 0.085 inch to 0.118 inch. The 0.118 valve (used for gravity feed) flows 93 percent more fuel than the 0.085 (used with some of the earlier Chevrolet trucks with fuel pumps). Even the carbs used on the largest Chevrolet engine (261 CID) used a 0.101 orifice with a fuel pump. The mechanical advantage of the float is such that, even the carbs with fuel pumps, need to have pressure NO MORE than 3 psi.

 

Carter produced 68 different type BB-1 carbs. They did not make this many different simply for the engineers to have something to do. When migrating an O.E. carb to a different than stock application, the enthusiast becomes the engineer, and is responsible for his/her homework.

 

Jon

[Bob Zetnick]

Thank you all for the replies. While the Stomberg appears to be in good shape I don't know if can be working one minute while I drive and the next it be falling apart.....when I was a kid working on this car I didn't even know what pot metal was and so was blissfully ignorant.....maybe I need to be so again. Anyway, the carb, car and me are 50 years older....it sounds like the Carter may not be as easy a replacement as I thought.....maybe I need to start saving for the Myers, aluminum replacement. It looks as all the stuff on the "Vintage & Classic Reproduction" (through Myers) list has diminished somewhat for a '29 DA, so maybe an investment in the future to keep her running for me and future owners.

[stakeside]

Thanks Jon.

I need a source for complete rebuild kit for my BB-1. I should replace the springs and my kit does not have them. i would also like to get the proper intake needle for the gravity feed fuel supply. The orifice should be 0.118" (3.048mm) or #31 drill size. It is noted as a 25-46S.

I attached the spec sheet for I believe to be the proper carb for my DA-6 Dodge Bros engine.

 

 

[carbking]

1 hour ago, stakeside said:

Thanks Jon.

I need a source for complete rebuild kit for my BB-1. I should replace the springs and my kit does not have them. i would also like to get the proper intake needle for the gravity feed fuel supply. The orifice should be 0.118" (3.048mm) or #31 drill size. It is noted as a 25-46S.

I attached the spec sheet for I believe to be the proper carb for my DA-6 Dodge Bros engine.

 

 

What is important first, is not what BB-1 you should have; rather what BB-1 you currently have.

 

And the word "complete" has different meanings to different folks. I have had a few folks in the past figure if they supply the tag, then a complete kit would have everything else, including the proper castings!

 

All levity aside, as stated in my last post, Carter made 68 different type BB-1 carburetors. If one buys a BB-1 6J2 new old stock off of Ebay for $5.00, one still CANNOT turn it into a BB-1A or BB-1D; the castings are different! Yes, I know they all LOOK the same! Which means a model T Ford looks like a Silver Ghost (both have 4 wheels).   OK, sorry, I said I was done with levity.

 

If one buys a 517s (fairly common type BB-1), and one has an automotive machine shop, one can make it close to the BB-1A. Or one can buy the necessary parts assuming one doesn't mind throwing several hundred dollars at the parts vendor. Or it is possible it can be made to function with less work/$. 

 

And before someone accuses me of this post being an ad to sell the BB-1A; let me assure everyone that I am sold completely out of the universal BB-1's, and have been for years.

 

I know "bargains" occasionally surface on Ebay, but always nice to know exactly what you are getting before you get it; and pretty much imperative to know what you have before you try to use it.

 

Oh, and our kits for the BB-1 have always included the pump spring, vacuum piston spring, and power valve spring.

 

Off the BB-1 for awhile.

 

My records show that the Victory 6 was a 208 CID engine using a cross-flange carburetor; and the DA 6 was a 208 CID engine with a straight-flange carburetor.

 

Are these two the same engine with a different intake? Will the cross-flange intake fit instead of the straight-flange intake?

 

Up through 1928, the Victory 6, in addition to using the zinc alloy Stromberg TX-2, also used the BRASS Detroit Lubricator. The Detroit Lubricator is close to original (off 1 year), is calibrated for the Dodge engine from the factory, and when professionally rebuilt, virtually bullet-proof! Another POSSIBLE option if the intake manifolds interchange (and I am sold out of these as well!).

 

Jon.

[carbking]

For those looking, there are two new old stock BB-1D carbs on ebay at this time at reasonable prices. Both appear to be new old stock and genuine. Take them apart, a thorough cleaning, a new kit, and should have a really good carb.

 

Jon.

[RWPerry]

I have been looking for Harry Redding's article on the BB-1. I will let you know when I find it. It was a good write-up.