65 Riv GS - Pesky leak crossover manifold/ water pump Help!

[kreed]

I have a very small leak that is driving me crazy. It is  where the crossover manifold fits on to the water  pump . Took the manifold out ( PITA ) , put new rubber O ring , used high temp gasket maker inside as I put it back together and still leaks small amount when car is cold - fills up the little recesses on the upper side of the water pump and the drips on the floor . Doesn't  leak a drop  when the engine is warm  but next morning drip, drip ,drip . I can actually see where it coming from with a mirror - tried more gasket maker but to no avail . Any suggestions before I pull it apart again? Maybe next step is drain fluid at that level , let it dry out a few days and try another sealant ?... Don't know if anyone else gas had the problem - all ideas appreciated .Thanks 

KReed

ROA 14549

[telriv]

kreed,

 

      The most common problem is because the timing cover in that area is badly corroded.  Sure you put in a new seal, BUT did you clean out ALL the corrosion???  Once you do you will see the massive amount of corrosion that exists.  The proper way to do it of course is to replace the timing cover, BUT the ones that are available at the moment are porous so for the moment you don't want to go that route, not now anyway.  Will have to wait to see when/IF they pick-up on the problem & advice the foundry to improve their methods or find another supplier.  It seems he is always looking for a less costly route since this one bit him you know where.

    Off that subject & back to your problem.  Clean out ALL the corrosion with a Dremel with various wire brush attachments.  Get it thoroughly clean of the corrosion.  Put a good coating of the Right Stuff sealer in there & let it sit for an hour or so to let it start to cure then install the new o-ring & gaskets to the head.

   To make absolutely sure it doesn't leak again do what I have done previously on other Buick's with this problem.  I take a .060" inner valve spring shim for the NailHead. The I.D. is the same O.D. of the water manifold. Measure the inlet of the timing case cover where the O-ring goes & make it a few thou smaller then the inner OD of the timing case cover. Now install it on the water manifold & put a dab of some kind of a glue. I use 3M weatherstrip adhesive. We in the trade call it yellow snout. Let it dry so it doesn't fall off. Now do what I said above.

   What it does is take up .060" of corrosion & makes a tighter seal.  In some instances I've had to use two O-ring seals & use clamps of some sort to pull the water manifold into place. Sometimes this makes it too tight & splits the seals & your back to the same problem. 

    So far using the shim method I haven't had ANY return leaking problems in that area.

 

Tom T.

[60FlatTop]

I been putting a light coat of Leak Lock on the O-ring for a few decades now. I let it sit overnight and put the coolant in.

https://www.grainger.com/product/30ZY82?gclid=Cj0KCQiAsbrxBRDpARIsAAnnz_M68TtenFRH1SZOgBTgs1fpeUSsTQwvMUHx6glHrwrtuVxUBQPppFwaAgtEEALw_wcB&cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&ef_id=Cj0KCQiAsbrxBRDpARIsAAnnz_M68TtenFRH1SZOgBTgs1fpeUSsTQwvMUHx6glHrwrtuVxUBQPppFwaAgtEEALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!281733070937!!!g!477870770836!

 

It is made for refrigeration systems. I have had times when one or two of the 1/4-20 water pump bolts were broken and it held until I could get time to repair them.

Good stuff.

Bernie

Edited January 27, 2020 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Seafoam65]

You probably don't have to take it back apart........leaks like this is what radiator stop  leak is made for. Buy a bottle of 

Bar's Leaks at your local Auto Supply, shake the bottle thoroughly and add about a third of the bottle to your

radiator, then go out and drive the car for 30 minutes and report back with your results.  

[telriv]

I've tried that a few times & the majority didn't work, BUT a couple did that's why I came up with a fix.

[kreed]

Thanks everyone - appreciate all the advice . I did clean all the corrosion out of the manifold  when I took it apart the first time but there wasn't much, if any, since the engine has only 500 miles on from complete rebuild including new water pump and refurbished timing cover . I'm gonna try the stop leak first before I tear it part again. It's doesnt that much leak but just enough to drive me crazy and make me wonder what's going to blow out when I'm 100 miles from home . Thanks again . 

KReed

ROA 14549

[KongaMan]

You sure it's coming from around the seal?  Sounds more like a crack that swells shut when it gets warm.

[kreed]

Pretty sure it’s the seal as I can see it coming out drip by the drip at the junction of the two pieces . Appreciate everyone’s help. Will keep you informed . 
KReed

ROA 14549

[Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel]

I think I used a second O ring - put a little downward pressure so the first one seats and seals.

Plus some gasket goop.

[gord14080]

I don’t know if this will help but I had same problem ,i made my own gaskets for cylinder head mounts 

and my gasket paper was too thick,this put the spout tighter on one side causing a small leak

 thinner gaskets solved my leak!

[kreed]

Appreciate all the help . I am going to try the simple things first , like the Stop Leak , as soon as the weather warms up .I really would prefer not to tear it apart again unless absolutely necessary . I don’t know about the rest of you but little crap like this makes me crazy (ier) . Will keep you informed . 
KReed

ROA14549

[PWB]

The stop leak tablets work great for tiny leaks. It feels like a cheat but it will save your mind.

I had a water pump on my old 455

that wouldn’t seal for anything. Forget about the torque. 
Cadillac went so far as to mandate 

the use of the tabs in the ‘90’s.

 

10 minutes ago, kreed said:

Appreciate all the help . I am going to try the simple things first , like the Stop Leak , as soon as the weather warms up .I really would prefer not to tear it apart again unless absolutely necessary . I don’t know about the rest of you but little crap like this makes me crazy (ier) . Will keep you informed . 
KReed

ROA14549

 

[1965rivgs]

1 hour ago, PWB said:

The stop leak tablets work great for tiny leaks. It feels like a cheat but it will save your mind.

I had a water pump on my old 455

that wouldn’t seal for anything. Forget about the torque. 
Cadillac went so far as to mandate 

the use of the tabs in the ‘90’s.

 

 

Lol....Cadillac used stop leak in their 4100 motors in the early `80`s as a campaign/recall to put a Bandaid on their 4100 nightmare engine. I worked in a shop whose owner was a former Cadillac dealer mechanic and we were getting funneled alot of Cadillac specific work. We also did limo fleet work so more cadillac specific work was piled on. The local Caddy dealer had a stack of 4100 crate engines and we used our share of them.

  Subaru did the same thing to compensate for head gasket problems which I also have limited personal experience with.

  My mother in law bought a new `82 DeVille coupe and I remember her asking me to read the recall letter. I laughed, told her they were going to add stop leak as a temporary measure and urged her to move on to another car. She kept it, maintained it meticulously and only used the car to travel back and forth from Chicago to Omaha to visit family, so ALL highway driving. The engine went south at 60 K.

  There was a rebuilder in TX that made a cottage industry of specializing in rebuilding the 4100 engines. He made 25 or 30 specific exceptions in the rebuilding process to rectify engineering shortcomings. When I hear or see mention of the Nailhead being such a knowledge specific engine to rebuild I think of the Caddy 4100 and just chuckle to myself and shut up because I dont want to burst anyone`s bubble...the 4100 was a HUGE stain on Cadillac engineering.

  I have been told by a very reliable source that it was common practice at GM to use stop leak in every new car which rolled off the assembly line. I dont know if that is true, or true for specific engines, but I dont doubt it as a small coolant leak could result in a very expensive warranty issue. In such a scenario the downside of using stop leak in the cooling system can surely be rationalized.

  Stop leak will surely work but I have found from personal experience that it has a tendency to simply delay repairing the original issue and comes back to bite at an inopportune time.

Tom M.