1916 D-45 Waterpump shaft Removal

[redbaron1930]

  Hello all;

   I need to change the waterpump shaft on my 1916 model D-45. (chews up packing like crazy!)

Can anyone walk me through the steps on the best way to get it out. I imagine that the engine should be set at #1 TDC and the distributor marked at #1 firing. Everything is trapped in there pretty good but I am sure there is a way to get it out and if anyone have done it before I'm sure it will save me a lot of guessing and aggravation.

 

 Thanks

           Andy

[Brian_Heil]

Andy

 

Covered in great detail in several previous posts.

 

Try the search feature for just this forum and a few key words and see what you find.  Get back with us if you still need assistance.

[Terry Wiegand]

Andy,

Brian is right about this being covered before.  You have one tremendous thing in your favor here - the shaft on the 1916 and 1917 models was straight.  In my humble opinion you will want to use stainless as the replacement material.  With stainless you have several options.  You can choose a grade that is corrosion resistant, or, you can choose a grade with high wear resistant characteristics.  Go with the wear resistant material.  With the shaft being straight that lends itself to being run through a centerless grinder.  By grinding to the finish size a finish of 4 - 5 rms can be held and the graphite packing will not leak a drop.  I have copies of Buick Motor Company Engineering Drawings for the shaft, water pump bushings, starter/generator coupling, and all three packing nuts.  I think Dean Tryon had another run of the water pump impellors made.  With one of those, you could set your cooling system back to factory condition.  I will be in contact with you.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[Jim Milewski]

Andy - the thread that Brian and Terry are talking about was very helpful ,(Hubert's) as I redid my 23 water pump this last August, my problem was with my impellor and a strange coating of a latex material, removed it, sand blasted and coated it with JB weld - works like original now. I used glands from Bob's Auto as packing material. From reading your original post, it sounds like your shaft is scoured and is chewing up the packing - just my two cents but try using emery cloth to clean both sides of the shaft on both sides of the pump, then repack tighten but not over tight as you need a little leakage to lubricate before removing the whole unit.

 

Jim 

[redbaron1930]

Thanks all, Jim, my shaft is very worn in the packing areas ( as well as chewed up). I believe replacement is the only effective remedy at this point.

[Hubert_25-25]

Andy, 

    Ben provided a link to a water pump rebuilding procedure.  I have replaced the original procedure with one dated 11-5-19.  You will want to use the replacement document as there have been significant updates to the procedure.      Hugh

[Morgan Wright]

My packing nuts don't leak as much as they did at first, but if they start leaking again, I'd try to figure out a way to smooth the rusty shaft without having to take it out. It was a huge pain in the neck to take it out before. I had to jack the engine up a couple inches to get the timing gear cover off, drill out some taper pins, it was a huge pain. 

 

What about taking out the packing, replace it with a piece of green scotch pot-scrubbing pad you cut the same size and shape, which is impregnated with aluminum oxide which is harder than emery powder, and run the engine that way for a minute or 2. Won't that shine up the shaft real nice? 

[Bloo]

It might, but "bad" water pumps are usually worse than anything that might potentially fix. It is usually severe erosion of the packing surface combined with (perhaps more importantly) the shaft being undersize where it runs on the bushings. If the shaft can walk around there is no way to stop the gushing with packing or a seal.

 

Packing type pumps do have to leak a little or the packing will burn up from friction and ruin the shaft. It doesn't take much.

 

[Morgan Wright]

He didn't say he had a bad water pump. He just said it chews up packing. He didn't say he had a bad bushing either, or that the shaft was walking around.

[redbaron1930]

On 1/22/2020 at 10:34 AM, Hubert_25-25 said:

Andy, 

    Ben provided a link to a water pump rebuilding procedure.  I have replaced the original procedure with one dated 11-5-19.  You will want to use the replacement document as there have been significant updates to the procedure.      Hugh

Hugh;

  I can't make out the shaft dimensions for the D model 6 cyl. "A" dimension looks like 18 5/16 and  "B" dimension 3 1/16 can you tell me if this is correct?

[dibarlaw]

Andy:

The 1929 Master Parts book reference for D 6 cyl models (except models 54-55) show "A" dimension as 18 5/16" and the "B" dimension as 3  9/32".

 You will not know until you have your pump apart what the actual dimensions are. They should be close. As will the outside diameters.

The larger "B" area (front bearing to timing gear) should not be badly abused. The longer shaft which goes thru the pump will be probably "necked" down where the bushings and packings are. Mine on my 1925 Standard were over .025 wear.

[Hubert_25-25]

Andy, 

    Larry is correct.  It's tough to get good resolution from the small text in the parts book.    Hugh

 

 

 

[redbaron1930]

Thanks Larry; I got the shaft out this weekend it had been modified slightly over the years. the 18 5/16 makes sense my overall length is 18 13/16 but the coupling on the end sticks out 1/2" past the end of the shaft so at least now I know that is right.