1960 Buick Advice

[loflite]

Looking for some constructive thoughts about what to do.  Back in '75 my dad and I pulled a 1960 Invicta Custom hardtop coupe out of the junkyard. It was Tahiti Beige with a beige interior.  My dad and I did a amateur restoration on it.  We painted it Tampico red not worrying about correct colors as it was 1975 and the car was only an old car.  The car is a minnesota car so it had a lot of rust on the lower half meaning lots of bondo. I drove it for 4 years and then parked it and it hasn't moved since.  It has been stored in a barn like structure with a dirt floor. Fast forward to 1995 and I started thinking of restoring it again, only this time professionally.  I bought a rust free Colorado 1960 lesabre hardtop coupe (Tampico Red) shell with out the engine but otherwise mostly there with all the A/C parts too.  I also found a 30k mile lesabre coupe that was completely rust out but had an intact almost perfect red interior.  My plan was to turn these three cars into a single Invicta Custom coupe.  But work and other interests got in the way and everything sat in storage.  Fast forward to 2010.  My bodyshop man calls me and tells me he has time to do my car.  At the very same time I found an Invicta Coupe in Idaho that is completely rust free, no rust ever, that is a very good driver quality that I bought very reasonable.  It is red although I'm not sure if it is factory correct red.  Interior is red/white vinyl that does not match the factory, but it is very very good.

 

Sorry for being so long winded, but here is the bottom line.  I will be losing my storage in about a year, so it is time to make some decisions.  I think I have the following options.

1. Strip all of the older cars and turn the Idaho car in to a custom coupe and sell the leftover cars and parts

2. Go back to my original idea and restore my original Invicta custom coupe and either keep or sell the Idaho car as is.

3. Sell my original 3 cars and drive the Idaho car as is. (cheapest option)

 

I've got a dealer that wants to buy all of the cars and sell them to European buyers.  If I was to restore the original custom coupe, should I restore to factory beige or redo it red.  (Not many have their original high school car.)

[Pete Phillips]

A 1960 Invicta Custom 2-dr. is a rare car--came with the bucket seats which I believe is the first use of bucket seats on a Buick, and they were upholstered in leather. I can't answer your question because it has too much to do with your personal finances and your objectives. Are you looking for a correct and very valuable show car? Do you have the budget for that? Are you looking for a daily or occasional driver for the least amount of time and money? Are you looking for a car or cars to sell so you can make some money and put the funds into a restoration? It's very expensive these days to restore a car, especially when it comes to paint and body work. The usual rule is to start with the nicest car you can afford, and go from there, because it takes less time and less $$$. But I don't know what your objectives are. I myself am biased towards keeping a car original or restoring it to original condition. I do not normally care for modified or incorrect cars because so often the modified car is done to that particular owner's wants and desires, which are rarely what someone else would want--and that makes it difficult to sell later on because it limits your potential buyers. But there are plenty of people out there who don't care whether a car is factory correct or not. I do, because there are fewer and fewer of those kind left in the world--and I am willing to pay more for a car like that than I would for a modified or incorrectly restored car.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Leonard, Texas

Edited December 8, 2017 by Pete Phillips (see edit history)

[lrlforfun]

OK LF: Are you a member of the 1960 Buick Universe Facebook page? If not I invite you to join. If you are.....

Post lots of  picgures and get some feedback from the group. Remember,  we're 1,500 strong and this is a fantastic resource for advise or selling/fixing/swapping.   Your location is also important.   Mitch

[loflite]

Pete, Those are all good questions and kind of why I posted so I can clarify my own thoughts.  i'm guessing to do my old original car would be $30-$50k.  I saw an Invicta Sport coupe sell in Chicago at Mecum a year ago in the mid 30's.  Therefore, restoring my old car does not make financial sense, only emotional.  Of course, few cars make financial sense.  While having a completely original car would be really nice, I don't see the time or the money to do that.  So I am probably looking at doing a very very nice driver which is almost where my Idaho car is.  But I sure would like the buckets and console along with the chrome fender trim from my original coupe.  But then, would be a real shame to part out an original coupe. I've attached a picture of my original coupe.   The red colorado shell and the white coupe can be seen in the background.

[JohnD1956]

These cars are only original once.  And sounds like the only original one you have is the white one, albeit full of rust and deterioration.  To add to Pete's comments you need to ask yourself what you'll do with them?  Are you wanting to take them to shows and garner awards?  Or are you looking for an ice cream run sociable car?  If you want to win awards the good news is most local shows with various makes in attendance, will never know what is , or isn't, original.  If it shines and looks good, then you stand a chance of winning.  In this case red is the color of choice, and modifications are no drawback.  If you go to the AACA judging then chances are you can get away with things like switching your bucket seats, in any color, into the Idaho Car and installing your wheel opening trims will not be a detriment.  If you want to go with Buick Club judging, you can get away with switching the color to any one available in the year of manufacture.  The bucket seats and wheel trims may be a detriment depending on the expertise of the team captain at the particular event.  And no one is looking for engine numbers to make sure they match.  In many cases Buick never had matching numbers.  Just don't paint the engine the wrong color. 

 

If you just want an ice cream run sociable car, make the  Idaho car it what you want.  And then make a 2nd running car out of what you have available in left overs. Sell it to Europeans yourself. Then find new storage for left over parts that are rust free.  Dump the rest.  

 

All this is just my opinion and feel free to disregard any or all of it.

[loflite]

1 hour ago, lrlforfun said:

OK LF: Are you a member of the 1960 Buick Universe Facebook page? If not I invite you to join. If you are.....

Post lots of  picgures and get some feedback from the group. Remember,  we're 1,500 strong and this is a fantastic resource for advise or selling/fixing/swapping.   Your location is also important.   Mitch

Already a member, thanks.

[50jetback]

Have you seen this footage

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dczamtg3UMk

 

A friend recently purchased a similar car here in Australia. I have to say these 1960 Invicta Coupes are stunning. 

 

My advice is find more storage and keep them all!

Edited December 8, 2017 by 50jetback
Add photos (see edit history)

[Pete Phillips]

Is the white car a two-door sedan (with side post) LeSabre?. That;s what I think I see in your photo. Those are also quite rare. And if, by some rare chance, that it happens to have the extremely rare 3-speed standard shift on the column, then you have to sell it to me!!!!

Pete

[loflite]

13 minutes ago, Pete Phillips said:

Is the white car a two-door sedan (with side post) LeSabre?. That;s what I think I see in your photo. Those are also quite rare. And if, by some rare chance, that it happens to have the extremely rare 3-speed standard shift on the column, then you have to sell it to me!!!!

Pete

Pete, it is a two door sedan with around 30k original miles.  Bought it from a little old lady in St. Paul.  It is very very rusty.  It ran very well when parked but has not been driven for 20 years. Automatic. High efficiency 2 barrel option.

Edited December 8, 2017 by loflite (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

Maybe I missed it, but where are you located?

[Guest shorttimer]

How bad is the rust in the Custom coupe?  If it is isolated to the rockers/fenders, could you drive the Idaho car while you do metal work on the Custom coupe, using the other cars for parts?  As stated by others, the Invicta Customs are low production cars and the beige interior is pretty uncommon, so it would be great to see that car back on the road in any condition.   At the same point, taking the Idaho car off the road deprives you of the 'old car experience' that can be a critical motivator, so I would be inclined to pursue your option #2 if space and funds will allow for it.  Regardless of the route you choose, '60s are great cars and enjoyable to drive, no matter the model or trim level, so you almost can't go wrong.

 

If the original upholstery is still intact in your Custom coupe, I would love to see a picture of it.  I have never seen the factory beige leather interior in person.  Most of the surviving cars I have seen have the blue or maroon, or have been redone with vinyl that does not mimic the glow of the original color.

[John_S_in_Penna]

20 hours ago, loflite said:

...I'm guessing to do my old original car would be $30-$50k.  ...

 

Mr. Loflite, since you've waited decades, I think you would

be happiest with your Option #3:  Driving the nice original '60 Buick

from Idaho.   

 

 If you choose another option and hire out the off-frame restoration,

you will be spending $100,000 or $150,000, and ending up with a

beautiful $30,000 car.  And such a restoration might take 2 to 4 years.

Since you say you have a dealer who will buy all the other cars that need

so much work, sell them! 

 

You'll be simplifying your life and having a good original Buick to drive.

[60FlatTop]

Can you break down your budget based on how much you plan to spend per month, starting with the week you drop it off at the body shop. And your "intended" completion date. Kind of like a project management timeline. To maintain a pace and project a 48 month drive to a show date, be prepared to dole out close to $2,000 a month.

 

Just a general idea would help.

 

In 2013 I had a similar decision to make, but doing the majority of the work myself. I estimated $10,000 per year for the next 7 years to have a rough car I could drive up to town for coffee. I sold it. And it ain't like there is an empty spot in the garage where it was sitting.

 

As for stripping out cars and saving the parts for a similar car, well, if it hadn't been for Ebay I would still be renting a couple storage units plus my home garage. ONLY damaged parts generally get used. A bumper, fender, door, hubcap, the rest is clutter.

 

Europe is a great lace for the whole pile. There is Buyer's Regret and Seller's Regret that you have to deal with from time to time. My personal experience is that when Seller's Regret strikes all you do is slide your hand in your pocket and curl your fingers around a handful of hundreds. It's not bad.

 

You mentioned a body shop taking the car. That brings to my mind the completed work vs. the expected work. Many professions earn that label from the professional way they make excuses. I have heard nearly 60 years worth and nothing has changed but the date. You need to be able to do this work yourself. Lots of jobs don't turn out so nice the first time. Do it yourself and do it over. Hire it out and you get what you paid for as long as you keep paying. I remember a '67 Caddy hood I had painted in the 1990's. I wanted a nice job done in a booth. Three times and each time it was worse. I came to believe there are two kinds of painters, young inexperienced ones and older ones who had been breathing paint fumes for way too long. I ended up selling the car. Now I would paint it myself.

 

I have a 1939 Allis-Chalmers with the engine torn down. It is a fresh rebuild that stopped rotating on me. I haven't got to the problem yet, but I am finding a lot of assembly work that is not to my liking. A friend said it was too bad I had to tear it down. I replied "Nah, I'm kind of glad I am going to put it back together MY way."

 

So, with all that, only take on what you can do yourself. You can't trust things to be done right. If you go the route to turn the project stuff into cash for a nice car, be very careful that the work was done right. You can't trust it was.

 

The first thing I look at on any  "finished" car is the door window area and fur strips. Most are horrible. It can cost $1500 to $2,000 per door to get all that trim right. I walk up. look at the overspray and unpainted areas, the shiny screw heads in the fur, the puckered weatherstrip and I don't have to go any further. The old saying "The fur strips are only original once." Check 'em out. I've been watching.

 

Bernie

Edited December 9, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[loflite]

Thanks for all the replies. I think what I will do is drive the Utah car as is.  After I retire, maybe 6-10 years from now, I'll start seriously restoring my old car.  Plan to do most of it my self except the paint.  It will never be a show car, but it will be nice.  When I start to part out the cars, I'll let you know.  The white coupe is very rusty and body wise there is nothing left.  I think the old lady must have left it parked on a busy street where it would get sprayed with the salt.

 

i put seat covers on the beige interior of the custom coupe back in '75 and have never had them off since.  The leather was cracked back then.  When I start ripping into this I'll post pictures.  Originally when I bought the car from Utah, I was thinking to strip my custom coupe and turn the Utah car into a custom coupe.  Financially, that would probably make the most sense, even though I could not sell it as an original.   However, I probably wouldn't sell it anyway.  Of course, I would sell all 4 cars for a crazy offer, but who wouldn't.

 

Thanks again for the replies.  

 

I am located in New Ulm, MN.

[50jetback]

PM sent.

[60FlatTop]

 

Hmmmmm,

Bernie

[KongaMan]

IMHO, the goal here is to end up with an Invicta Custom coupe.  If you can make that happen and end up with a second (mostly) complete car in the process, so much the better.  So, you can cherry pick all the best parts for the Custom, piece together a second car out of the others, then sell it and leftovers.

 

If you store anything for another 7 years in a building with a dirt floor, it's going to me in worse shape then than it is now.