neil morse Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Hello everyone, I am brand new to this forum and new to Buicks. I am getting back into the old car hobby after a hiatus of 20 years or so. I had a '48 Chrysler from about '85 to '95, but then took a break until now. I have just acquired a '41 Buick Super 4-door, and, of course, I have many questions. In the interest of trying not to be too annoying, I am going to start out with only one question. I bought the car from a dealer who had no history on the car. After buying it, I discovered that it has an electric fuel pump in the line, back near the tank. with an on/off toggle switch mounted under the dash. I have searched on this forum a bit to try to find out what the idea is behind such a modification, but I am still confused about how to use this my best advantage. I have read that people have installed an electric pump to help with vapor lock, and also just to help with cold starting to avoid a lot of cranking to get gas into the carbs. I would be very grateful for any help in understanding what the purpose is of this modification, and the best way to use it to my advantage. Thanks in advance! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 NICE LOOKING CAR. The electric fuel pump sometimes can be a help if the car is driven at operating temps or higher and then shut off for a short time like when you would go shopping. As the car sits there the temp even gets higher and the gas can boil right out of the float bowel. When you get back in it to start it the electric fuel pump can be turned on for about 30 seconds and it will refill the bowel. The same if it sits for some weeks between starts. Sometimes it will also help prevent vapor locks on a hot day in stop and go traffic. I rarely use mine but its nice to know its there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Thanks so much for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Up here at 8500 ft and forced to burn "corngas", my electric pump comes in very handy on those long mountain pulls. And like Dave says, if she sits a long time between drives, and the fuel drains back down, or evaporates, the pump can be used to "prime" the carb, and it takes a lot of strain off the starter and battery. My pump in on the cross member just in front of the tank and there is a BIG CLEAR FUEL FILTER between the tank and the pump. Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracenroc Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Very beautiful car! Mine is installed in the region of the rear axle, attached to the body. Operation is done with a hidden push knob below the dash. I need it when the car was sitting for a while to refill fuel lines and the carb bowl, as Dave and Mike mentioned before. Saves me for cranking the engine feeding the fuellines and carb by the mechanical fuel pump attached to the engine block, saving my battery for engine start. I usually run it until I can hear a different sound from the pump in the back before I start the engine. You can hear when the fuel system is pressurized and the pump works harder. One hit to the pedal and the car starts at the first time. Greetings from Switzerland, Werner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Thank you for your responses. This is very helpful. Let me ask another question that may or may not be related to the electric pump. This involves telling a story, so please bear with me. I just bought this car last Friday, and drove it down from Sonoma to San Francisco (about 45 miles). At the time, I didn't know about the electric pump, and when I discovered it on Saturday (I heard the tell-tale "click, click, click" when I turned on the ignition in my quiet garage), I also discovered that it had been turned on during the entire drive. I'm now wondering whether the pump could have figured into the one problem that I encountered on the drive. When I started the car in Sonoma, it caught on the first crank and ran very smoothly. There were also no issues with the car on the highway until I was coming down a long grade in bumper to bumper traffic approaching the Golden Gate Bridge. As I was idling in traffic, the engine died, and I couldn't get it started again. Fortunately, I was on a long downhill, so I was able to roll over to the right shoulder. I tried again to start it, but it just kept cranking over and would not catch. At this point, I became concerned about the battery because the battery was low when I went to pick up the car, and the seller had had to put it on a charger for a few hours. Long story short, the car was trucked across the bridge on a flatbed, courtesy of the Golden Gate Bridge police (a free service!!), and dropped off in a parking lot on the San Francisco side of the bridge. This took about an hour. At this point, I figured I might as well go for broke as far as the battery was concerned because it was looking like I was going to need a tow anyway, so I just let it crank about 20 times with the accelerator pedal floored, and Eureka! she fired up. I drove the rest of the way home, and it died one additional time when I was stopped in traffic and idling. Again, I had to floor it while cranking to get it started, but it fired up after about 10 cranks. I have not driven it any significant distance since I got it home, just going in an out of the garage and to a gas station. But starting and idling have not been issues at all. I'm obviously just getting to know this car, but I am wondering what caused it to behave the way it did on Friday. A mechanic friend of mine suggested that it was exhibiting classic symptoms of flooding, and thought that maybe having the electric fuel pump on during the whole time during my Friday drive had the effect of forcing too much fuel into the carbs, causing them to flood at idle. So that's my question (finally), i.e., what is the effect of leaving the electric fuel pump on all the time, and could that have had anything to do with the problem of stalling during idle and being hard to start? (Sorry to be so long-winded, but I hope my story was at least entertaining!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 The electric pump could be left on with no problem IF the needle and seat in the float bowel is working properly. I run a fuel pressure regulator on my carburetor and it seemed to make my car run smoother. These old carbs are simple but they usually need to be rebuilt. Todays gas is terrible and gums them up if not driven regularly. If I was you I would start by driving the car with only the mechanical pump feeding the motor and see how that works out. On my car the mechanical is all I ever use but for some reason even with a NEW needle and seat my car needs the fuel pressure regulator. With it the car runs very smooth and no surging. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Having an electric on full time while the engine runs at whatever speed, is not an issue "unless" the pressure is too high for the carburetor model. Carbking on here would be able to say what the max pressure can be for a given carb model number. If a pump is running at the far end (max) of the carbs specs, a freak event can push it over to a problem event. Something like a overheated line or whatever, that causes a spike in pressure to the carb. These intermittent issues can be hard to pinpoint, and some fuel problems may actually be ignition, etc. So, best place to start, is to know if the pump pressure max is correct for your carb. I added a backup electric to my 55 Olds motor. I have twin Rochester model AA 2 barrel carbs from 1949-1950. I never looked up the carb max spec, but my two Facet pump choices at NAPA, were 1-3 PSI, and one that was much higher, perhaps up to 9PSI. I went with the 1-3 and have no issues like I assumed. The reason I went with local Napa; I've for years, had a very ancient "NAPA-Facet marked" pump that always worked mint, and still does. So I wanted another for this other car. The ebay, "so called Facet" was dirt cheap$ but are offshore knockoffs. I ended up spending something like $50-$60 out the door local, but feel that it must be a better quality as it has the Napa/Facet names cast on it. I had planned to use the electric only to pre-fill the carbs, but recently the stock rebuilt mechanical pump started leaking gas, so I bypassed it, and now run the electric full time. I will get a better kit and fix the stock pump, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant L. Meredith Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Welcome to the club! Beauty of a '41 you have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 42 minutes ago, Grant L. Meredith said: Welcome to the club! Beauty of a '41 you have! Thank you for your kind welcome! Yes, it is a beauty. It's not a Century, and it's not a convertible, but it was within my budget and it was just the car I was looking for. Solid, presentable, but needing a bit of this and that that will keep me busy and happy. I have always been attracted to the '41's for that gorgeous dash, and as long as I can sit behind that dash and listen to the wonderful sound of the Dynaflash 8, I will be a happy camper. When I was active in this hobby before, it was pre-internet. In my other hobby (RC model airplanes), I have really enjoyed internet discussion forums like this one where you can meet friendly people and get almost instant answers to all your questions. I am really looking forward to experiencing the old car hobby in the internet age, and I was very pleased when I discovered the AACA site! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscheib Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Neil, Please consider joining the BCA, if you have not already done so. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, jscheib said: Neil, Please consider joining the BCA, if you have not already done so. John Oh, don't worry. That's definitely on my list of things to do. No question. Clubs are the life blood of the hobby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 And an RC flyer too. Boy, every now and then we get a bonus......... I've been flying RC for many years. Mostly .91 four stroke Saito's Currently a Sig Hog Bipe reconfigured into a prewar Curtiss racer, and an Eindecker w/ a 7'span. Back to your stalling issue. What does the temp gage say when she stalls ? Hot ? How is your oil pressure when idling or at road speed ? What fuel do you have available, in the peoples republic ? Doesn't California have about 16 different blends ? Does your carb have a brass plug on the side of the float bowl ? That's how you check the float level. Gas level in the bowl is supposed to be JUST at the bottom of this hole. But not coming out. On mine, both mixture screws (in front) are only about 1.5 turns out from the bottom, but then I'm at 8500 ft. (and per Carbking) I should go down two sizes on the mains. I don't leave my pump on all the time, but I did rebuild the carb and fuel pump with kits from "Bob's" in Atascadero, Ca. that will tolerate the "corngas" we are forced to buy now. Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) Thanks, Mike. I will have to take all your questions under advisement because I've only had this car in my possession for about 72 hours! But I can answer the temperature question: the temp gauge is unfortunately not working because the needle is blocked by all the shards of melted plastic from what's left of the gauge faceplate. As I'm sure is typical, the fuel/oil pressure gauge is in perfect shape because it's the one farthest from the driver's side window. The ammeter/temp gauge has gotten completely cooked by the sun over 76 years. The ammeter needle (on top) moves freely, but but the temp needle is blocked because all the shards of plastic have dropped to the bottom. Replacement of this unit is on the top of my list for starters. Oil pressure looks good. You can see the oil pressure gauge in this little video I made of the start up to show my friends how great it sounds. Edited March 14, 2017 by neil morse (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I'm an RC flyer too. I fly electric and I collect old U CONTROL planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 This link may give you more understanding on the use of electric pumps: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Electric_fuel_pumps_and_old_cars.htm Jon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 Great to hear that there are other RC pilots on here as well. I fly electrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 14, 2017 Author Share Posted March 14, 2017 2 hours ago, carbking said: This link may give you more understanding on the use of electric pumps: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Electric_fuel_pumps_and_old_cars.htm Jon. Thanks, Jon. You guys have all been very helpful and given me some homework to do. I am looking forward to learning as much as I can about my new Super. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgreen Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Sure is a good looking car. Congrats on the purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, kgreen said: Sure is a good looking car. Congrats on the purchase. Thank you, Ken. I was very happy to find it. Update: I took her for a drive yesterday, 80 miles round trip, and had no problems at all with it dying or stalling. This time I had the electric fuel pump turned off. Of course, I have no way of knowing whether the pump had anything to do with my earlier problem, but I was very pleased that the problem did not reoccur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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