Information wanted on Allen-Kingston or Houpt-Rockwell autos of 1908-1911

[Joneebgood]

The Allen-Kingston (A-K) was built in my hometown of Kingston NY by Walter C. Allen. There may only have been a hundred or so manufactured each year in 1908, 1909 and 1910.  It is said that, by 1910, Allen owed money to the New Departure Ball Bearing co, owned by Albert Rockwell.  Rockwell took over the company and, along with Harry Houpt, he changed the name to the Houpt-Rockwell and produced cars for another year or so in Bristol, CT before manufacturing was discontinued.  Photos found in the book, New Departure Classics by William Muller, show that the two cars shared most of the same parts and features.

Although the Allen-Kingston is an obscure vehicle it was well know in racing circles in those early years.  It made quite a name for itself in dozens of races all over the country in 1907-1910.  It won many events driven by well-known drivers like Ralph De Palma, Al Campbell and Hughie Hughes.

An article in a Connecticut newspaper in 2015 included a photo of a large open Houpt-Rockwell owned by a man (Andy B.) in California at that time. The reporter indicated there may be up to three H-Rs still in existence.   Does anyone know of an existing Allen-Kingston or even parts from one?  I haven’t been able to find one listed in any museums or on the Internet. The radiator had a capital “A-K” in a circle from what I see in some photos.   Thanks for any information you can offer on the Allen-Kingston.

JIM

[1937hd45]

I hope you find a car or enough bits to build one. I've had a copy of The New Departure Classics for years, always interested in Connecticut built cars. Bob

[Joneebgood]

Thanks for the reply.  I was fascinated by the race history of these early cars.  The A-K was even in races that included Barney Oldfield and George Robertson.  Pretty good  company. The H-R was even in a few races.   It seems like there must be one A-K preserved somewhere and I sure would like to see it.

 

The link below is to a newspaper article that may interest you about the Houpt-Rockwell.  It is not clear if the photo of the car is a file photo or taken of the existing car but the article does name the, then, current owner.  Maybe he will find this thread and respond with some interesting history of his car.

 

http://www.centralctcommunications.com/bristolpress/article_a1128fdc-2510-11e5-8359-2fe1109273fe.html

[ANDY BEACH]

I STILL OWN THE ROCKWELL,  AND HAVE A LOT OF THE HISTORY OF THE COMPANY.

[1937hd45]

Welcome to the Forum, a few photos of your Rockwell would be nice to see. Bob 

[340 SIX PACK]

Any one interested in Houpt Rockwell / New Departure Bristol Connecticut original and printed photos ?  The collection is consigned to automobiliaauctions.com for an auction date to be determined later due to the Covid-19 situation.  You can view it on their website - it is Lot number 264.  Many of the photos are from the advertising department of New Departure .

Edited March 28, 2020 by 340 SIX PACK
Additional information. (see edit history)

[Ozstatman]

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Edited March 28, 2020 by Ozstatman (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Some interesting lots in this auction. However they state a 23 % buyers fee plus shipping. Is this sort of buyers fee normal for things like literature auctions ? Sounds sort of steep or am I just spoiled by ebay ?

 

Greg

[340 SIX PACK]

I guess the companies handling internet bidding add on their fees.

[3macboys]

16 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Some interesting lots in this auction. However they state a 23 % buyers fee plus shipping. Is this sort of buyers fee normal for things like literature auctions ? Sounds sort of steep or am I just spoiled by ebay ?

 

Greg

I'd say that's a bit steep.  Most I deal with are in the 15 to 18 % range with a discount for cash or debit payment.  There's still the odd auction house that run live auctions with no buyers premium, those are a real joy when you can find them.  

 

Don  

[340 SIX PACK]

Automobilia auction this Saturday 06-27-2020.  Check automobiliaauctions.com for "conditions of sale" that show different premiums for various ways to bid.  On nesteggauctions.com site " liveauctioneers " shows current pre-bids on all items.  

[RichardW]

The factory I was told was on Grand St. in Kingston and is still standing. One of Allen's decendants (Tim Allen) still lives in Kingston. I know someone that knows him and hopefully I'll be getting some information soon. I'm curious myself.

[Joneebgood]

Thanks, Richard;  I live in Hurley and know where the factory was but never thought there could still be a descendant around.  Very interesting.  Let me know if it pans out.  I dream about finding a chassis somewhere to restore but I guess there just were not enough made in the first place.

JIM

[Mark Wetherbee]

On 3/28/2020 at 9:36 PM, 3macboys said:

I'd say that's a bit steep.  Most I deal with are in the 15 to 18 % range with a discount for cash or debit payment.  There's still the odd auction house that run live auctions with no buyers premium, those are a real joy when you can find them.  

 

Don  

I was at an auction in Missouri at the beginning of October and bought a substantial (non automotive) piece, because of that item I skipped out of bidding early on another item I was interested in only to find they had no buyer premium or state taxes when it was an on-site sale! In the end I figured that I “saved” around $700 because of it but by then it was too late... I should have asked before the sale but 15% is so common now I just assumed it would be charged.

 

[RichardW]

I met Tim Allen today. He's a nice guy and likes to talk about the car company. He has some literature but no car parts. Hopefully I'll get to see some of the literature soon. His grandfather died in 1933. If any place would have the car it would be the Henry Ford museum in Dearborn. 

[RichardW]

I got some information from Tim Allen. Included in the information were some photos, a 1908 sales catalog, and some stock certificates. I'm still still looking at at all the paperwork I received. 

[Joneebgood]

WOW! Richard, nice job!  I have never seen any of those items before so they may be new to the automotive world.  Are there any captions on the car photos as to who the occupants are?  After A-K went out of business Walter Allen was involved with the Allen-Waring corp.  I wonder who Mr. Waring was and what they made?

 

Thank you so much for sharing.  This is really quite awesome!

JIM

[ANDY BEACH]

HI GUY'S ANDY HERE NOT ON COMPUTER MUCH, STILL HAVE MY ROCKWELL  IN 60YRS OF LOOKING NEVER FOUND ANOTHER OR ANY PARTS ANY ONE HAVE ANY LIST OF FACTORY PARTS  ONLY THING MISSING IS THE ORIGNAL CARB, BUT ANY INFO IS HELPFUL MINE CAME OFF THE ROCKWELL ESTATE ORIGNALY.

CAN PM ME AT ANDY BEACH@ATT.NET

 

 

 

 

[RichardW]

Thanks Jim. I do not know who the people in the car were. Other information that I found out was after AK went out of business the building in Kingston was sold to the Campbell car company. They didn't produce any cars and soon afterwards it was purchased by the Emerson car company.  I think they produced some but I don't know how many. I don't recall seeing much on the Allen-Waring Corporation either but his grandson Tim might know. If you want to get in touch with him send me a message.

[figboy 112]

One H-R was entered in the Port Jefferson NY Hillclimb 1910 or 1911 I can send more info if interested may have name of owner and driver. I am looking for a 1910 or 1911 ad for the H-R  as we are having a recreation of sorts of the  hillclimb this  August

[Greg Prior]

My Great Great Uncle David Graham was AK Chief Engineer. I have a few photos from his effects. One is a partially completed car in front of a building with the sign "N. Y. Car & Truck Co." It appears Fred Moskovics later of Stutz was concurrently the General Superintendent. Uncle Davey later went to New Departure. This may be the same car pictured in the 2016 post while under construction.

Edited February 8 by Greg Prior (see edit history)

[Joneebgood]

WOW!  Wonderful photo!  Greg, Thank you for sharing.  It looks like a five-seater!  Very cool photo!  Please share any others you find as well.  There are still people fascinated by the history of this vehicle.

[30DodgePanel]

On 2/8/2024 at 7:50 AM, Joneebgood said:

WOW!  Wonderful photo!  Greg, Thank you for sharing.  It looks like a five-seater!  Very cool photo!  Please share any others you find as well.  There are still people fascinated by the history of this vehicle.

 

DPL has some interesting photos if you haven't seen them before.

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