GaryP65 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Anyone have info on testing/repairing this unit? For some reason, after RR of my carb, the sucker wont start. It cranks very slowly. I have full battery power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 What is a starter box ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I think he means the starter foot button/cut-out switch box. The first thing I would check are for tight connections on the box. They are difficult to get to. It may help to remove the two screws that hold it to the toe board and pull it out enough to get a wrench on there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platt-deutsch Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 You might try jumping across the big terminals on it and see if it cranks good then. If not it is something else. Put a voltmeter on ground and the cable terminal on the starter and see how many volts are there when you try to start it. If 12 volts is there and it does not cranki properly its probly the Starter Gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Are you 6 or 12 V? If 6V, you need big cables to the starter, if you replaced any of them. 12V cables are too small - 6V needs twice the current to get the same Watts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Are you 6 or 12 V? If 6V, you need big cables to the starter, if you replaced any of them. 12V cables are too small - 6V needs twice the current to get the same Watts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 Unit is 12 volt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 11 hours ago, platt-deutsch said: You might try jumping across the big terminals on it and see if it cranks good then. If not it is something else. Put a voltmeter on ground and the cable terminal on the starter and see how many volts are there when you try to start it. If 12 volts is there and it does not cranki properly its probly the Starter Gen. I'm challenged when it come to electric. So you're saying put my meter on the big terminals on the starter switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 If using a digital volt meter put either meter lead on the SG terminal (the one with the starter cable on it) and the other meter lead to ground (ground can be the engine block, frame, outer housing of the SG, etc. Put the lead in an area where paint is missing). Depending on if your car is hooked up with a positive or negative ground, the meter may read negative volts. No problem; just switch meter leads or ignore the minus sign. If using an old volt ohm meter, you may need to swap lead positions to get a positive reading. One other thing you can do to bypass the foot switch is to use jumper cable direct to the battery (check first to see if it's hooked up as positive or negative ground; if the cable on the "+" terminal of the battery bolts to the transmission cover or frame that means it's positive ground. If negative terminal does then it's negative ground). If it's positive ground, connect black jumper cable to "+" and red jumper to minus on battery. Then connect the other end of red jumper to the SG terminal. Now when you touch the other end of black jumper to a ground (which completes the circuit to battery "+"), the starter should engage. If it turns at normal speed then problem is in the foot switch or cables, which you bypassed. If it still turns slowly the problem lies in the SG (assuming battery is fully charged). If the car is negative ground, jumper hook up is opposite to above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyAus Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 The first rule of electrics is to check that you have a good earth - then then go on to the rest. I took me years to learn this the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 Thanks for the advise Mike. So I tried both. The meter shows no reading and jumping had no results (sparks but that's it). Also tried jumping the big terminals on the switch Think my SG is shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 You DO know there's a fuse on the generator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Yes wiseguy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 It could be the SG. Have you tried crank starting it? Or maybe just to verify that the engine has no internal issues, remove the spark plugs and check that it is easy to crank by hand. It isn't all that hard to remove the SG but you must be careful not to drop the chain into the engine front cover. There is a procedure on removing it that worked well for me. If a search doesn't turn it up, I can post a copy. It is possible to check/replace the brushes with SG installed but access to one of them is quite difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Once I noticed that the switch wasn't doing it, I tried the hand crank and other than the normal compression it seemed fine. I checked out the brushes some time ago and other than a broken spring which I fixed, all looked good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 3 hours ago, MikeC5 said: It could be the SG. Have you tried crank starting it? Or maybe just to verify that the engine has no internal issues, remove the spark plugs and check that it is easy to crank by hand. It isn't all that hard to remove the SG but you must be careful not to drop the chain into the engine front cover. There is a procedure on removing it that worked well for me. If a search doesn't turn it up, I can post a copy. It is possible to check/replace the brushes with SG installed but access to one of them is quite difficult. The one that's hard to get at is for generating juice. It's the two top ones that do the starting........thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 I have this from the book of information See photo.... So I tried one more time to jump the terminals on the foot switch and it was quiet in the garage (I love that). Once I held it there, I heard a faint 'sizzle' coming from the SG!. Should I try testing as as per the mechanics manual? And should I do it while out of the car or not? AND/IF I do, is there power flowing thru the unit? Gwary's scared! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Before you go any farther get a booster cable and hook one end to the hot side of the battery and the other to the terminal on the SG and see what happens. If nothing new happens THEN you're looking at removing the SG. For GOD'S sake be careful separating the chain. Turn the engine over with the hand crank until the master link is in view on the SG sprocket and turn a bit more until that link is "sort of" on the high side of the sprocket but still fully engaged. Remove the cotters and stop until you have the both ends of the chain wired with something........a coat hanger works well Carefully withdraw the link. Depending on the style of the chain, in addition to the link, there might be two, sort of, half sleeve things that fit inside the chain halves so be careful to not lose them. If not for the chain pulling the SG wouldn't be a huge deal. It's still not fun but not horrible either. Your book will tell you how tightly to re-tension whichever chain you have upon re-installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 8 hours ago, cahartley said: Before you go any farther get a booster cable and hook one end to the hot side of the battery and the other to the terminal on the SG and see what happens. If nothing new happens THEN you're looking at removing the SG. I am not worried about removal, just want to make sure that its nessecary to do so. For the electrically challanged, you're saying hook the cable to the negative battery terminal to the post on the SG (I have a positive ground system)? Am I hooking the other to the ground? Electric is foreign to me. Testing is even worse!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 The SG is grounded through the housing so no additional ground is necessary so, yes, connect from the negative battery terminal directly to the SG terminal. There is no need to connect to the actual terminal or remove the hot wire (black one in the photo)......touch the booster cable to the black wire connector as shown in the photo to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Got nuthin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 OUCH........ Oh well..........at least you KNOW where the trouble is now. if ya wanna find a bright side....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 So what kind of repairs can I do to this or should I just get an exchange from Myers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 You said you are "electrically challenged" so there probably isn't much you'd be able to do except pull the back cover off and do a visual for broken/over heated wires. In reality the SG isn't much more than an old series wound brush motor. I don't suppose there are any old motor repair shops in your area? I say old because if they haven't been around for a long time don't waste your time....... As it happens there is a Model GA SG on ebay right now.the second time around. It got no bids the first round and it's CHEAP! (the seller is going to lose his posterior on $25 shipping!) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Brothers-Starter-Generator-Model-GA-3804A-12-Volt-for-parts-/381663225578?hash=item58dce6a6ea:g:K0cAAOSwY0lXSkg2&vxp=mtr My '25 has a Model G SG which is not correct for that late a car but after getting things sorted with it I expect it will outlive me. I have a GA I bought "just because" but have yet to test it. I was told by the seller it spun when she put the juice to it. If those things didn't weigh a ton and cost so much to ship I'd be happy to look at yours for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 I appreciate the offer. Thank you. I found a shop near me that and spoke to a old timer that seemed to know about these units. The commutator was black in some spots so he suspected a problem. He cleaned it up and tested it and says it works well with no sparks or arcing and works well on both the starting side and the charging side so now I'm lose at what it could be!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I'm running out of ideas too. I trust you checked the ground connection as mentioned above? The only other thing I can think of trying is take 2 booster cables and energize the SG from another vehicle with a known good battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 What size fuse goes on this SG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 10amp. I got it back on and also notice that the chain was very loose so I adjusted that. First push on the foot switch and it turned over . I did notice that the switch needed a quick and decisive push to make it work but now I'm not getting spark to the plugs. I have power to the coil so it might be the condenser. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Gary........keep saying to yourself "This is fun" "This is fun" "This is fun" "This is fun" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 IT IS!! Even with all the complaining, it actually is! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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