For Sale: 1957 Roadie Model 75 Coupe

[buick man]

Just came across this Craigslist find: This car appears to be a promising candidate and is reported to be redone inside and out.  Most likely an older restoration as the seat material is correct and hard to replace now. Engine bay appears original with additional attention to compressor and master brake setup.  Hood insulation has been removed and never replaced and some slight overspray at hood/fender internal junction.  No idea of the mileage or how the under side appears. A lot of attention to detail and work has was put into this shell beige and garnet red coupe. In our opinion and there are no surprises or drama stories, this car is grossly underpriced at $ 22,000 firm.  So what do you all think ?  http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/5554704244.htm

l

Edited May 5, 2016 by buick man (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Since Craig's List ads have short lives, here is the

text of the ad for everyone's future reference.

The car is advertised in the "S.OKC" (South Oklahoma City?) area:

 

"This is a Beautiful 2 door 1957 Buick Roadmaster 75 Riviera. Powered by a 300 horsepower 364cid nailhead v8 with a 2-speed Dynaflow automatic transmission. 

This c-body Riviera 2 door hardtop is very straight and has no rust, dents or dings. It has a very nice two tone paint job. The colors are shell beige & garnet red. The emblems & chrome moldings are in great shape and are all complete. The interior of this car is pristine, it has beautiful carpet, headliner, dash, door panels and seats. All interior chrome is complete and has no missing pieces. Gauges, clock, radio all work. This car has all available options for this year including standard power seats and Windows. The Windows roll up and down perfectly. All doors, locks and handles work great.

This car has all been restored inside and out as close to original specs as possible. With the exception of adding disc brakes and a bigger brake booster for added safety. Has black diamond white wall radial tires in excellent shape. This vehicle also has all new glass. It is 1 out of only 2,404 cars made. So it is extremely rare especially being in this nice of condition. It is in good running & working condition and is ready to go. It is a fun car to take to the car shows. Could be used as a daily driver but mostly just stays indoors and has been garage kept for years besides car shows and occasional cruises around town. Will not be disappointed! This vehicle looks just like it does in the photos or better. 

I am NOT interested in any trades! I don't need any help selling this vehicle. I will not except payments! There will be no free rides or time wasting. Only contact me if you are a serious buyer and have the available funds I am asking for. My price is firm @ $22,000. I don't care if you disagree with my price, It is what it is.

Again you will not be driving this car unless you have cash in hand. I do not have the free time to waste. I'm in no hurry to sell. I will only be available to show the car Monday thru Friday 8am-4:30pm. No weekends. 

Contact me via text and I will get back in touch with serious buyers. I do not answer un known numbers. 

Thanks for looking.
(405) 541-9144"

[buick man]

…. Oh ya, thanks John.  You think the guy is open to offers ? :)'

 

We thinks this is an older restoration cause at best our guess is it's painted in enamel or even perhaps lacquer which is a big plus since sooo many are now painted in bc/cc which may indeed be shiny but in our humble opinion, renders an overall shallow of depth non period look to these cars.  I would still like to know where he got the seat material as it is close.   The original material had laces of silver thread woven throughout it and reproductions I have seen do not.  But all in all a very nice overall representation of one of the better era Buicks.

 

Another interesting touch is what appears to be factory but we believe it to be a well done crafted metal hood cover over the A/C condenser unit as I have never seen this on any other 57.

Edited May 5, 2016 by buick man (see edit history)

[Pete Phillips]

I think it's a very fair price, considering the quality and rarity of the car. You would certainly spend more than $22,000 restoring one to that condition. I guess the metal hoods over the condenser coils are to improve air flow? These engines, especially with air conditioning equipment added, put out a huge amount of heat into a very congested engine compartment. I'll bet the owner is fighting vapor lock all the time with this car.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

[buick man]

Yes we agree more than a fair price for a buyer and if this car is truly ship shape as presented, then this car should be snapped up by any prudent buyer for a ride such as this;  but for the seller the car as priced is a give-a-way sale in our opinion. Perhaps there is some story or drama surrounding the pricing ?

[superbuick]

This car has been listed many time in the last several months. If it is as he states I would buy it.

But I have called several times with no answer or returned calls.

So it make you wonder ?

[buick man]

lol…. yeah maybe the guy just has to list it for the probate or divorce court proceeding - just so he can say he is attempting to sell it ….

[TG57Roadmaster]

On 5/5/2016 at 5:28 PM, buick man said:

 I would still like to know where he got the seat material as it is close.   The original material had laces of silver thread woven throughout it and reproductions I have seen do not.

 

 Isn't this Trim 781, Rust Cloth with Ivory Cordaveen that appeared in Roadmasters? It's X 1036 in this fabric sample. The lack of glitter may just be low-res pics. 

 

 

Wouldn't RM 75's have Trim 783 Rust Pattern Nylon Cloth with Ivory Leather? I don't have a trim book with RM 75 samples.

 

 

TG

Edited May 11, 2016 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[buick man]

This is Fun … TG perhaps that may very well be the case but I think the seller car is a replacement copy cat interior.  A good one but not original.  

 

Here is a photo from my model 75 4-door back seat area with what I believe is the same fabric pattern except I know mine is original.  No doubt a little bit sun bleached but one can clearly see the specks of silver woven into the cloth itself. The cloth inside my back seat center arm rest when dropped down is only slightly less sun bleached so my fabric pretty close to as delivered as far as color tone goes.   My camera is nothing special and the silver specks are clearly visible.  With the seller's photos, he has some good sunlight going for him yet there and no silver specs. This leads me to think this is a later copy material and possibly a SMS replacement or an even older replacement.

 

 It is interesting because  3 or 4 years ago I had a few conversations with the owner of SMS fabrics regarding some samples he sent me for a possible backup on my model 76A which has the 731 Black Cloth-Ivory Cordaveen interior fabric.  The samples he sent me had the wrong but close pattern but still had no silver speck threads. Yet my original fabrics on both my model 76A & 75 do have the silver specks. He told me he has a mill in the southeast somewhere and one somewhere in the northeast and that the pattern can be remade but the silver thread specks would be another matter.  I believe the jest was he would try but no promises to recreate the silver speck threads.

 

The last photo is from a model 75 that was for sale a few years ago and the fabric was reportedly new and a replacement. A copy cat interior as you can see the differences.  

 

The silver specks were in everything in the 50's on furniture fabric and Buick was following the designer wave of the day as well.  Kinda be nice if this could be reproduced accurately.

 

EdIt: …oh just kinda noticed this but take note of the second photo from my back seat. This really shows how the factory fabric presents an intricate 3 dimensional weave build with the silver specks in the outer 'clouds' of thick multiple complex thread weave and then the lower sculpted lighter shaded bare threaded weave areas.  A very rich dimensional presentation and a complicated pattern on top of that.  No wonder the last photo now looks different when contrasted with the real factory fabric. Another interesting deviation Buick made with this mid model year model 75 was I believe the seat tops on the model 75's were exclusively leather as opposed to the earlier builds having the Cordaveen material which was the standard issue for initial earlier Road Masters models.

 

Here is a wikipedia definition of what I believe to be this kind of fabric creation : "Brocade is typically woven on a draw loom. It is a supplementary weft technique; that is, the ornamental brocading is produced by a supplementary, non-structural, weft in addition to the standard weft that holds the warp threads together. The purpose of this is to give the appearance that the weave was actually embroidered on."  From what I have found, the silver threads could be what is sometimes referred to in the trade as 'flash points' threading weaves.

 

I realize this has morphed into a discussion beyond the initial 57 R.M. for sale but isn't that how conversations start and as a result and in the whole process that is where the real learning process begins ?

 

 

 

   

Edited May 11, 2016 by buick man (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

 

Quote

The silver specks were in everything in the 50's on furniture fabric and Buick was following the designer wave of the day as well.  Kinda be nice if this could be reproduced accurately.

 

Thanks for the memory you just gave me of when Sterchis Furniture delivered our new red living room set back in '57 and how mom liked how it sparkled. Had not thought about that in years. 

Some good writing in that last post, especially in the edit, enjoyed! 

[superbuick]

OK, I finally got to speak with the owner. He built the car to one he owned in high school. The colors were changed to match. Stated the car was solid but driver floor and trunk was rusted out and patched but not as well as it should have been? The interior was redone, but vinyl was used instead of leather. I noticed the separate small squares in the seats were not reproduced. The drivetrain was not rebuilt, and the a/c was added including the dash swap. He said the a/c did not work out and he was never able to make it work.

So know I am wondering how much needs to be redone or completed to have it a nice driver?

And know knowing a little more- is it at value and maybe not a great price after all.??

 Steve

[buick man]

Steve ...Gee, still would like to know where he got the fabric from just for the record.

 

In our humble opinion this car is more than ready for the road as-is.  Could be the rust was only needed to be removed in concentrated areas, and thus the cut n patch work.  In my work, we never remove anymore of the original metal that is absolutely necessary.  The engine bay tells me a story that some dedicated attention went into the preservation of it.  We think someone does not recreate their passion and past by skimping on their present reincarnation of that memory.  No need to 'detail' an original engine bay unless you want to be uber anal in needing to have things freshly painted and lose the original in the process. With that said, the overall engine bay is tidy and looks like one would of looked back in the day with a circa 1964 period patina :)'. The transmission, torque tube driveline and indestructible rear end are of no real major concerns as all components are easily and affordably rebuildable but this particular 57 can no doubt still be driven for a long time before considerations need to be made concerning them.   The A/C system if complete under dash and hood can be made to work.  No hobby car is ever really done and what would be the sense in that.  Only trophies, chicken and pork are really well done anyway.  Consider the little better than drivable lawn art that is being shelled together out there what with backyard rattle can facelifts and being offed at prices near and even often exceeding this Model 75 asking price and look what the buyer is getting in the bargain in this 57 as well to boot. -  Overall, we still think the car is way underpriced and just waiting for the right prospector to come along and strike it rich.  Get the car inspected from headlight to tail pipe.

Edited May 11, 2016 by buick man (see edit history)

[lancemb]

I think it's a fair price but not a steal.  The fact that it changed colors hurts the value a lot for me personally also.

[buick man]

Here is a L.A. 1960 film project shoot displaying everyday L.A. streets.  The cars shown are typical of the diversity of american makes across the spectrum in the late 50's.  Since this was shot in the summer of 1960, one would think there should easily be a multitude of all well known car makes and models running the complete gamut of each and every car manufacture presented including orphan cars makes as well from at least 1955 to 1960.   Grab your calculator and get ready to add up all the 1957 Buicks that you can count, right here in a major west coast city in the 1957 Buick's heyday.  Remember this is L.A. in 1960 when the 1957 Buick was barely 3 years old. How many can you find ?

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2016 by buick man (see edit history)

[lancemb]

Very cool video.  Tons of neat cars!  I think I was born late.

[michel88]

It was an interesting film that showed a lot of cool cars on the streets of LA in 1960.  It brought back memories of what was typical driving the roads when I first got my drivers license in July 1960.  The cars were so much more diverse and distinctive than what you see driving today.     

[buick man]

…. You can get your car in any color today that you want as long as it is solid white, silver, gray or black - Lancemb & Woody - cool & tons of cars, yes diverse & distinctive, and what was the number of 1957 Buicks that you counted ?

[michel88]

I just looked at the film again and think I saw just one 1957 Buick.  It was a light colored (white?) 57 Buick seen from the rear at the 14-15 minute mark.  I saw 2-3 1953's and close to 20 54,55 & 56's.  It was odd not to see the 57's.  I saw at least 3 57 Oldsmobiles.  I even saw a 56 or 57 Continental Mark II.  The 1957 Buick has always been my favorite Buick from the time they were new.  Buick man how many did you count?

[buick man]

Woody ….This is just a game for me and I am amusing myself.  The reason I posted the film was to make a point.  The rarity of the 1957 Buick plain and simple, not only now but as proof even just 2-3 years after it was introduced.  So yes, the Buick you think you spotted could not be a confirmed sighting but it looked like a Special or Century but too far away and a little blurry to boot.  Could be an Olds, maybe.  So that is one sighting of a possible 1957 Buick in The City of Angels, in all it's glory and heyday 1960.  Would you not expect to see more just by chance and circumstance, I would ?  If you watch the films from 1950 to 1955 or so one spots numerous 49-55 Buicks of all shapes & models. They were very popular up to then.  So what happened ?  We saw countless tummy button tri-fives, fords and chrysler products. So what does that tell you ?  Here's what we think.  

 

Let's put some things into perspective.  We know some people bought the R.M. coupes in 1957, some 2,450 of them for the 1/2 season launched model 75 and some 2,800 or so for the model 76A and a little more for the model 76R, both built for the entire model line year.  Compare that to Bel Air top of the line Coupe Chevy was offering that very same year 1957.  Sold some 60,000 to people who gave their money up for that coupe. That would make the 1957 R.M. Coupes rare even back then and very rare today.  Bad 57/58 economy you say ?  All the other car manufactures were living and not selling cars in the U.S. as well so that only accounts for everyones poor sales.  We also know Chrysler had the jump on the dual headlight and tail fin for 57 at least a place where they looked like they should go and that forward look was space ship inciting to say the least. For those who could afford the Buick price range, some ventured over for that sexy Chrysler product but soon tired of the engine lifter noise of the 318  and harsh torsion bar suspension ride. Chrysler had some of the worst build quality for those early models for a few years because they slammed them to get them out for the 1957 launch.  

 

We think a good buying chunk who could afford a Buick that year such as doctors, lawyers, brokers etc. decided to wait and the few who did buy first took off that front grill 1957 Badge that dated the car right off the bat the next year which accounts for all those 1957 grill badges you see for sale on eBay.  Then they traded-in their 1957 Buicks, some for a new 1959 Buick.  But this created a great used car market for the 1957 and 58 Buick buyers who could not possibly afford a new 59 or 60 Buick but could now afford to get into this world of driving a Buick by buying up and into the 1957/58 Buick.  But this took at least 3 years or so to transpire and we believe that the used market for these cars only got better around 61 and on. We also think that the 1957 Buick sat in garages.  Sat a lot and that accounts for so many low to midrange original mileage 57 & 58's still surviving today.  To be harsh the styling of which we endear today was then for the 1957 & 1958 Buicks really an extension of 1955 styling and not exactly cutting edge or even slightly nouveau. It was not that many years ago, possibly 30, I seem to remember that the 1958 Buick was voted the ugliest car made.  Would one really think that today and deprive all those Edsel 59-61 Citations out there that honor ?

Edited May 16, 2016 by buick man (see edit history)

[michel88]

David, thanks for a very interesting overview of the 1957 Buick.  I was a car crazy kid of 13 when the '57 models came out, One day I was walking to school in September 1956 when I first saw a '57 Plymouth 2 door hardtop and it looked like something from outer space!  The 1957 Buick was the car that I fell in love with though.  There were not many in my neighborhood but one I liked was a '57 Special 2 door sedan that was grey and very austere looking.  It had black walls and small hubcaps and I thought it might be a 3 speed manual.  I was disappointed to see it was an automatic. When I got my drivers license in 1960, I saw a '57 Buick Special convertible with the top down and I was behind it at a red light.  The light changed and when the '57 Buick started off the driver shifted to second gear with the column shift and I knew that was the ultimate car for me!  I saw it several other times, but being 16 without much money it was only a car to dream about!

[JohnO]

I saw the 57 in the attached link - an entry from Wayne Carini  in the Auction Americas event in Indiana. If the 57 above is a high quality driver, it is well worth the price. The one from the auction looked like an older restoration where the paint had checked but was not visible in the pictures. Also, the interior while intact, did look a little tired. Overall, a true middle of the road "driver".

 

 

http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/feature-lots.cfm?SaleCode=AS16&ID=r0237&Order=price&feature=&collection=&grouping=Wayne

[lancemb]

5 hours ago, JohnO said:

I saw the 57 in the attached link - an entry from Wayne Carini  in the Auction Americas event in Indiana. If the 57 above is a high quality driver, it is well worth the price. The one from the auction looked like an older restoration where the paint had checked but was not visible in the pictures. Also, the interior while intact, did look a little tired. Overall, a true middle of the road "driver".

 

 

http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/feature-lots.cfm?SaleCode=AS16&ID=r0237&Order=price&feature=&collection=&grouping=Wayne

I read about that 57 elsewhere before the auction and it was described as unrestored, which it looks to be and with only 39k miles.  Plus it's a 75.  Even if it had been repainted, I'd take it for $23k with a beautiful factory color combo, no rust, and well-preserved originality any day over the one above with the non-factory color, patched floors, twice the mileage and non-original non-functional AC.

[buick man]

Yes there are some good looking 57's at this auction house.  The one linked to above is a good candidate for comparison and only 23k.  It too has been repainted but curiously not the headlight rim bezels. Original engine bay yet one gets a glimpse of the hood insulation that just may indicate possibly a lot more miles on the clock than simply 38k.  This looks like someone painted the exterior and a redo on the stainless spears complete with a new yet slightly off shade of tangerine. I noticed on the this same auction site, that two tone green model 75 that was on all the sales sites for sometime and was restored.  Priced at the mid 30's for a long time.  Perhaps the sky is falling on prices as of late.  Even the Porsche sales heat trend of the last couple of years has started to cool off as well.