dracenroc Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Hi all I'm a complete newbie in the Buick scene but I got classic Mustangs since over 25years, one of them was my daily driver for a long time. A few weeks ago I saw an ad from a rotten '37 Buick Special Coupe here in Europe and fell in love with it. As I don't have the time and I'm not keen to get one for a complete restoration (again!) What I'm looking for now is a turn-key example. Does anyone know something about this car?: http://www.rrclassiccars.com/1938-buick-special-coupe.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 It has been for sale for a long time. It looks like a nice coupe though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracenroc Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 Yes, I have seen that it has been for sale for a long time. It also turned out that it was sold in 2007 at a Sotheby’s auction in the US. I'm wondering why it's sitting around for such a long time. OK, its not a bargain, but if the condition is like seen on the picture it seems to be in the upper corner of the market prices. Maybe because its located in Canada? Or something is not like it should be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 17 hours ago, dracenroc said: Yes, I have seen that it has been for sale for a long time. It also turned out that it was sold in 2007 at a Sotheby’s auction in the US. I'm wondering why it's sitting around for such a long time. OK, its not a bargain, but if the condition is like seen on the picture it seems to be in the upper corner of the market prices. Maybe because its located in Canada? Or something is not like it should be... There are a few posts on the forums around some of the difficulties members have had bringing cars back across the border (mostly related to paperwork from memory) that would limit its marketability. The list price is quite strong and starting to approach Caddy money for a similar vintage car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Beautiful car, as mentioned. You certainly couldn't restore one for that kind of money, unless you did all the work yourself. I still bet you'd have that much money just in materials, tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchan Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 It'd be worthwhile to have a knowledgeable BCA member look the car over for you. If you're not a member, you should join. At that price, you might expect the car's been restored to original. It should have a rubber floor mat in front, not carpeting, the woodgrain doesn't look right, and I'm sure an experienced eye would catch much more. It's also not an original six-wheel car, if that matters. Six-wheel cars don't have a trunk shelf. As long as it's been for sale, the seller must not be in a mood to negotiate. If you've got the patience, wait for a better deal. The BCA magazine is a good place to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracenroc Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 4 hours ago, hidden_hunter said: There are a few posts on the forums around some of the difficulties members have had bringing cars back across the border (mostly related to paperwork from memory) that would limit its marketability. The list price is quite strong and starting to approach Caddy money for a similar vintage car. I'm from Switzerland, don't need to cross a border on your continent . 2 hours ago, suchan said: It'd be worthwhile to have a knowledgeable BCA member look the car over for you. If you're not a member, you should join. At that price, you might expect the car's been restored to original. It should have a rubber floor mat in front, not carpeting, the woodgrain doesn't look right, and I'm sure an experienced eye would catch much more. It's also not an original six-wheel car, if that matters. Six-wheel cars don't have a trunk shelf. As long as it's been for sale, the seller must not be in a mood to negotiate. If you've got the patience, wait for a better deal. The BCA magazine is a good place to look. Thats a good idea! Thanks! For that money I actually expect a car restored to original. Got some pics attached, maybe one or the other may see a some more discrepancies to originality? I've heard they had either the side mounted spares OR the one in the trunk? Following description is from a Shoteby's auction: The current owner of the Opera Coupe has had the Buick in his collection for many years, where it was clearly treated to exemplary care before and after its restoration. Given its current condition, it would undoubtedly impress both admirers and concours judges, not only for its uncompromised level of factory correctness, but also for its extremely presentable quality of finish. The interior was fully restored, making use of all proper materials, which includes the correct wood graining on the dash and the large diameter banjo style steering wheel. With nothing overlooked, the trunk received the same level of attention as the rest of the car and is properly equipped with the correct spare, jack and accessories. Options were listed as well: two fold down jump seats, dual side mounted spares with hard covers, twin driving lights, a radio, a clock, windshield wipers red steel wheels with chrome covers and rings wrapped in wide whitewall tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracenroc Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 Another thing: Anyone an Idea about whats leaking here? Shaft seal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 What is the round thing by the steering column? I don't know what the thing is at the top of the steering column in the picture, is it the mount? There was no carpet in the original car. The column is the wrong color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 The round thing, I believe, is a speaker. The leak may be the master cyl. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 The shelf in the trunk definitely says the side mounts were added. The carburator is wrong, I believe the inside of the fenders should be black, among other items mentioned by others. For that much money, it should be 100% correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchan Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 4 minutes ago, DonMicheletti said: The shelf in the trunk definitely says the side mounts were added. The carburator is wrong, I believe the inside of the fenders should be black, among other items mentioned by others. For that much money, it should be 100% correct. Plus one. Actually, the new pic of the woodgrain looks pretty good (and authentic). You're correct, either a car has a spare in the trunk or fender-mounted spares. This car didn't originally have fender-mounted spares. As far as whether the car "would undoubtedly impress both admirers and concours judges, not only for its uncompromised level of factory correctness", a concours judge should spot the same issues we have, and it's diffcult to claim it was restored to original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Similarly, If you see a Century convertible for sale be very careful. It was not uncommon to take a Century sedan, remove the body and add the body from a Special convertible, thus supposedly adding much value. There are many subtle differences between the two convertables and it would be easy for the unknowing to get stung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Nice car, but you can get a '38 Special coupe for considerably less money without giving up much quality. That one's over-priced by a significant margin. Parts and information are easy to get and you could easily take a $20,000 car to that level without spending another $20,000. These are not particularly rare, so you should be able to find a good one for far less cash, which would also allow you to overlook any inaccurate details. This one, priced as it is, should probably be the nicest one in the world. Good luck in the hunt! Edited March 30, 2016 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchan Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 14 hours ago, DonMicheletti said: Similarly, If you see a Century convertible for sale be very careful. It was not uncommon to take a Century sedan, remove the body and add the body from a Special convertible, thus supposedly adding much value. There are many subtle differences between the two convertables and it would be easy for the unknowing to get stung. Good point. The same has been done with coupes, Special coupe body on a Century chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracenroc Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 Thank you all for your help! To sum it up an for my understanding: side mounted wheels are optional but there are either fender-mounted spares OR a wheel in the trunk. If it has a shelf in the trunk it came originally with the spare wheel in the trunk? I have seen another (sold) '37 46S with a shelf and fender-mounted wheels, must be wrong as well. rubber floor mat in front iso carpet black painted fender (inside) suchan, whats wrong with the carb? Any suggestions for literature like a Resto-Guide or Originality-Guide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracenroc Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 I found another one in the UK, '38 as well. This one as well has fender-mounted spares, trunk shelf (or something similar), carpet in the front but a different carb/air-cleaner and a chrome heater on the passenger side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 On 3/29/2016 at 4:44 AM, dracenroc said: I'm from Switzerland, don't need to cross a border on your continent . Thats a good idea! Thanks! For that money I actually expect a car restored to original. Got some pics attached, maybe one or the other may see a some more discrepancies to originality? I've heard they had either the side mounted spares OR the one in the trunk? Following description is from a Shoteby's auction: The current owner of the Opera Coupe has had the Buick in his collection for many years, where it was clearly treated to exemplary care before and after its restoration. Given its current condition, it would undoubtedly impress both admirers and concours judges, not only for its uncompromised level of factory correctness, but also for its extremely presentable quality of finish. The interior was fully restored, making use of all proper materials, which includes the correct wood graining on the dash and the large diameter banjo style steering wheel. With nothing overlooked, the trunk received the same level of attention as the rest of the car and is properly equipped with the correct spare, jack and accessories. two fold down jump seats, dual side mounted spares with hard covers, twin driving lights, a radio, a clock, windshield wipers red steel wheels with chrome covers and rings wrapped in wide whitewall tires. I'm actually Australian so the only borders I can cross by driving are states One of the other posts referred to Canada so I got my wires a bit crossed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 You can easily tell a '38 original carb from the distributor side of the engine. An original will have a rubber tube covering a short piece of speedometer type cable going from the choke butterfly to the crazy choke mechanism at the bottom of the carb and then a larger metal tube going to the exhaust manifold. Often the outer rubber cover is missing. A carb with just a metal tube (about 1/4" diameter) going from the temperature mechanism at the choke butterfly to the exhaust manifold is a replacement. That change is common because the original '38 choke mechanism was VERY poor, complicated and seldom worked correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchan Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 The UK car looks like a nice driver-quality coupe. It has the factory heavy-duty air cleaner. I can't imagine anyone going to the trouble of putting chrome on a heater, so it's likely aftermarket, but looks pretty much like a factory heater. The finishes aren't as nice, or any more authentic, as the blue car, but if it's mechanically sound and you get it for a good price, ideally $15k, or maybe $20K, you'll have fun with it. It'd be worth a flight to the UK to look at it if conversations with the owner are promising. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracenroc Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 Not sure if it is still available. It was a post in a UK forum last December. Seller asked £22000.- which is about $32K. One reply was Quote Was contacted today by a collector and he was curious as to why it's underpriced, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchan Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 21 hours ago, dracenroc said: I didn't discuss the carb, as it's beyond my knowledge, but Don seems to have nailed it. There's no Originality Guide, of the sort available for Cadillacs, but there are excellent resources, starting with the 36-7-38 Buick club, http://www.3638buickclub.org. Check out the link to the 37-38 Yahoo group, whicjh has many of the back issues of Torque Tube magazine, an invaluable source of information. Thank you all for your help! To sum it up an for my understanding: side mounted wheels are optional but there are either fender-mounted spares OR a wheel in the trunk. If it has a shelf in the trunk it came originally with the spare wheel in the trunk? I have seen another (sold) '37 46S with a shelf and fender-mounted wheels, must be wrong as well. rubber floor mat in front iso carpet black painted fender (inside) suchan, whats wrong with the carb? Any suggestions for literature like a Resto-Guide or Originality-Guide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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