22touring Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I have always had quite a bit of clashing of the gears when shifting my '22, and I was just wondering how much is normal. My clutch does seem to be releasing, but I suppose it is possible that it is not releasing completely and I just don't realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Do you hesitate a little between gears? Sometimes waiting for the engine to slow down a little helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22touring Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 The worst clashing is when trying to shift into gear at rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I think you might be correct about the clutch not releasing enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22touring Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Do you think I should try cleaning the clutch plates with solvent (without disassembling anything), as described in the service manual? If anybody has ever tried this, I would like to know the results. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Is that when hot? My 1930 DC does that too. I ease into second then first. No clash. Else, wait a while for the gears to stop turning. They will in a few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Firstly How heavy is the oil in the transmission Early DBs like yours use a very thick oil There has been other discussions on these forums about this Secondly the transmission in your DB is different to the later ones like in Spinneyhills DC I think that the lay gear in the early ones is always turning and that is what causes the clashing There are other folk on these forums that know a lot more about the 4 cylinder DBs than me Thirdly I do believe that you can clean the clutch discs with a brake cleaning product I can't give you a product name as it is most likely a different name than in Aust I hope tha I have been of some assistance Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22touring Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Probably the oil I am using (90 W) is too thin. Would a thicker oil tend to improve things? I have heard some people recommend steam engine oil, 600 W. The worst clashing is when the transmission is hot, of course when starting up after a red light with traffic behind you. Aside from that, though, this touring is a pretty good daily driver! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 By all means, your 90-weight gear oil is 'way too thin. Use the true 600-W (dark, smelly, viscous stuff--rather than the honey-colored product which I suspect is re-packaged 140). 600-W is available from Model T & Model A parts stores. 600-W is about SAE 180 to 200 in terms of viscosity. Or, if you can find it, Texaco used to make a big-rig gear oil called Texaco Thuban in SAE 250 weight; I just finished using up the last of a 5-gallon pail, which seems to be the smallest packaging available. If you have any yellow-metal (brass, bronze) components, use GL-1, straight mineral oil, in a non-hypoid application. I'm sure you don't have a hypoid differential, so GL-1 600-W or other should be used in both your trans and diff--UNLESS your owner's manual or Dodge experts have another opinion. Crash boxes NEED a heavy oil to slow the gears down for shifting. One way to determine if your clutch is not releasing properly (after adjusting free play as per your owner's manual) is to place the car in first gear with engine off, keep clutch depressed, and start the car--noting if there is any attempt at forward motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLiken Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) I've been meaning to post this video on my viscosity experiment and now is the perfect time with your question. I struggled with this same thing for a very long time. I went online and ordered a 5 gal bucket of Steam Cylinder Oil, as I read on another forum that was recommended. I changed out and still had the grinding. I found 1500W Gear Oil at Restoration Supply Company in Escondido (San Diego County). I poured both into clear water bottles and stood up paint sticks. Play the video at https://youtu.be/U-cYRRsyp7oThe oil on the left is the Steam Cylinder Oil -The oil on the right is the 1500W - I read here to mix with heavy chassis grease, so I measured out the 2 qts of oil and mixed in 2 tubes of chasis grease. For the most part, my shifting problems have dissapeared. Thanks to the members here for mostly great advise! Edited October 21, 2015 by MrLiken (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22touring Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 MrLiken, so you added the chassis grease to the 1500 W oil? Wow, that is thick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I have always had quite a bit of clashing of the gears when shifting my '22, and I was just wondering how much is normal. My clutch does seem to be releasing, but I suppose it is possible that it is not releasing completely and I just don't realize it. I would have thought by now everyone should have been aware of the unique design of early 4-cyl Dodge Brothers transmissions is such that the countershaft assy. is physically DISCONNECTED when in High gear so the lube needs to have sufficient viscosity to cause motion to the countershaft or downshifting will be very difficult. Later trannies have that assy. connected at all times and as long as the input shaft is turning so also is that countershaft assy.. You mentioned getting underway from stop is noisy. That may be a different but possibly related case and could be sticking clutch plates from the previous Way Too Light tranny. lube leaking past the front seal causing the sticky clutch and it may need to be cleaned as was mentioned elsewhere on this link. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platt-deutsch Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I have very little trouble shifting either up or down. I just use the old double clutch method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricHoman Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 22touring, I seem to have the same issue as you, I also do not know if it is normal or not. When shifting up or down I take my time and double clutch and have very smooth gear changes. Going into first at a stop gives me a lot of grinding however, my clutch seems to drag enough that the driven gears start spinning even with the clutch depressed. I don't have the thick 600w oil like others here do so I'm not sure if the clutch dragging like that is normal and the heavier oil is enough to stop it or if my clutch actually has a problem. I've taken the clutch cover off and cleaned the clutches with brake clean but it didn't really help. When driving the car I get smooth shifts into first by leaving the car in gear as I come to a stop and once stopped I move directly from third to first. If I leave the gearshift in neutral, even with the clutch depressed, the gears will begin to spin and give me some bad grinding when I try go back into first. When I had the clutch cover off I took a video of the clutch with the engine running, showing that with the clutch depressed that as a I move the gear shift from in gear to neutral, you can see the driven plates start moving without me releasing the clutch. My car has the multiple plate clutch setup and it seems that there is nothing forcing the plates apart when the clutch is depressed. When i push in the clutch the plates are not held together at all, but there is also nothing pushing them apart meaning they just sort of rest next to eachother and produce enough resistance that transmission gears will start turning. When the car is off and the clutch is depressed I can move the plates back and forth freely with my fingers. Sorry for the long post, kind of hard to explain my situation with fewer words. Any advice is appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platt-deutsch Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Could it be the throwout bearing is the culprit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricHoman Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I suppose its possible, but I am not familiar enough with throwout bearings to tell. Is there an easy way to tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Do you need to pre-mix the 1500 and grease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) Anyone? What kind of chassis grease did you use. Was it the dark grey kind with moly disulphide? Edited December 26, 2015 by MikeC5 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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