THE OVERDRIVE MOD BEGINS

[jenz38]

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

The car now has over a hundred miles on the new overdrive set up without problems. It's been the best thing that could be done to this car as far as making it drivable in todays world. I would recommend this to anyone that has a car similar to the 38. Some other benefits as a result of the overdrive is that the car runs cooler when its engaged than when its not, not a very big difference but it is noticeable on the gage and the engine feels as if it will last forever since around town the speedometer usually reads between 25 and 30 miles per hour even though the car is going 40 or 50.

[amphigill]

Is Lloyd still doing this?Could I get contact info? Thanx Tom

[pont35cpe]

16 minutes ago, amphigill said:

Is Lloyd still doing this?Could I get contact info? Thanx Tom

Lloyd Young,   4915 Lithopolis Winchester Rd.   Canal Winchester, Oh  43110    Ph #614 837 7832  As far as I know Lloyd is still in business, I think he`s in his late 80s and maybe 90s since he did mine in 2013...

[amphigill]

got it, thanx!! Talked to Lloyd , he is ready, willing, & Able!

Edited February 13, 2017 by amphigill
update (see edit history)

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

We have put over one thousand trouble free miles on our overdrive, I still think it is the best modification that can be done to a 37 or 38 Buick if it is driven very much. My friend followed me on the freeway yesterday to a shop on the other side of Vegas, about fifteen miles and said we mostly did seventy miles per hour and that whole way is slightly up hill. When I got my torque tube with the overdrive fitted to it from LloydI it was a simple bolt in, all the work he did was perfect. It has never even leaked. I did the wiring and made the brackets that hold the kick out solenoid and the overdrive pull handle. I also ended up buying a brand new overdrive unit solenoid which is pricey at almost three hundred dollars. Lloyd will send you the same solenoids for free but they are old and  I tried two of them and they did not last to long, I've never had trouble with the new one. I hope you have the same experience that I had, you will be happy. 

[amphigill]

Pulling it out this week. Then it's off to Lloyd! Can't wait to go  crusing!  Tom

Edited February 15, 2017 by amphigill (see edit history)

[Marty Roth]

Your 4.88:1 ratio becomes a 3.416:1 - engine turning at 70% of prior requirement for the same road speed.

 

Lloyd did our '34-50 many years ago, as well as a couple of our other cars.

[amphigill]

Pulled it out & shipped on Wed. Lloyd is working on it on today!!

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Good news, hopefully it will get done quickly. The worst part is over since it is out and boxed and shipped already. For me the boxing and shipping was a PITA.

[amphigill]

I just read this thread again & realize how lucky I am to have a leave spring set up. Only had to remove u bolts on springs,( left shock links hooked to spring plate, )brake cables, rear cover, push axles in, 4 bolts on front of tube. Then bolts on center section.torsion bars at tube(2 nuts) Slid it back on springs,drop front down, slide unit FWD.&out. Walla!! 1 hr. Later done!!

Edited February 19, 2017 by amphigill (see edit history)

[amphigill]

Quote

picked  up the torque tube with OD. installed on mon. took a little longer to install it than remove it! Waiting on brake shoe re-line job. Also have to hook up cable & wiring. Back on road soon!!

 

[Jim Nelson]

Dave, I have Lloyds overdrive in my 1938 Buick.  I'm in Florida.  Rather than build crate and ship, I pulled complete rear and put it on my Chinese trailer.  Two day ride, three days in his machine shop guys and two days back.  I have many pix of the mods and instillation.  Later converted to 12v.  Vintage auto garage has "new" solenoids.  Took mine on a 1700 mile trip  and cruised ~60-65 on the road all day.  Engine rpm 2350 @ 65 mph.  Ready to go to Wilmington  NC in April.  36-38 club member (#320).  Love to see yours there.  You need to use the original rear end.  Mine is the standard 4:44.  The final w/ OD is 3:07.  The Century 3:90 would be to low resulting ratio in the high 2's.  Not good. Most older cars had rear end ratio's in the 4:10 to 4:40's.  Best for the overdrive function.

[MCHinson]

Jim,

 

Welcome to the AACA Discussion Forum. I look forward to receiving your registration for the 36-38 Buick Club Tour and look forward to meeting you in a few weeks here in Wilmington.

[Jim Nelson]

Dave, I have a 40 series coupe and rebuilt all running gear.  I bought mine to have a driving car.  I got the last of the F series 263 cube straight 8's.  Mid year in 1953.  If you have any questions, e-mail me at. Oldbuickjim@gmail.com

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

9 hours ago, Jim Nelson said:

Dave, I have a 40 series coupe and rebuilt all running gear.  I bought mine to have a driving car.  I got the last of the F series 263 cube straight 8's.  Mid year in 1953.  If you have any questions, e-mail me at. Oldbuickjim@gmail.com

 

Jim I toyed with the idea of putting a 263 in our SPECIAL but since there is only 24000 on the car and it runs like new I just couldn't justify it. If mine ever needs to come out I would make that switch as I just like the little bigger motor and the inserts. Since I'm older than dirt already I have a hunch the Buick will outlast me just as it is.

[Jim Nelson]

Dave,  I got several solenoids from Lloyd.  There is now a supplier of new solenoids from Vintage Auto Garage.  I had a small problem with the older units.  Bought one of the new units.  I have pix on how I hooked up the micro switch to the clutch system.  Also how I attached the light and button with the mechanical cable.  I put a small subpannel below the dash.  To that I attached the mechanical  disconnect cable and push button and turn on button.  Lloyds electrical system works great.  The only problem was  how to make the clutch actuate the micro switch.  I made many pic of what and how I did it.  I'm a detail type guy.  History:  I built and flew three "home built" a mature built airplanes.  I flew for 50 + years until I moved over to beautiful pre war cars. My pic's answer a thousand questions.  Oldbuickjim@gmail.com.   

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Jim, I also use one of the new solenoids. I also made my own micro switch brackets and my own overdrive cable bracket and on/off lamp holder. I have well over a thousand miles on the overdrive with no problems. I had two Cessna 170 airplanes, an A model and a B model which I flew all over California and Mexico in the seventies. I never did get a license but I had a hanger in Van Nuys and a friend taught me to fly, no one ever asked to see my license. Many of us old car guys like all things mechanical. Boats, Planes, Motorcycles, hobby models preferably powered, etc. I started this post over a year ago and also have many pictures of everything I did in it as I kept posting. 

[Jim Nelson]

Hi Dave,  I see there are a few of us crazies left.  I also had a 1950 Cessna 170 a and moved up to a 1951 Cessna 195 a.  Loved that bird.  I like round engines.  They sound so sweet..  Nothing like them.   22 years flying Huey's for Uncle Sam.  These Buicks are almost as much fun.  At least I can work on them.  74 is not quite old as dirt but I'm working on it.  I am glad the OD units work so well.  I am in 4 and 6 lane traffic all the time.  The OD lets me stay with traffic.  60 - 65 mph.  Actually I prefer the 6 lane limited access traveling and cruising 60 - 65.  Less hazards.  Other wise, it would be regular city traffic with lights every 1/8 to 1/4 mile or so.  We (in St Petersburg / Tampa traffic have a lot of snow birds and their stupit driving.  So they usually pull the "I gotta turn right here now ". and dash across three lanes to get some place.  No forethought or "prior planning"  duh..  Most drivers stay a respectable distance from us old cars.   I don't try to keep up with cars at a stop light.  We can not accelerate like them but I usually catch them  a bit down the street.  Still, it's a trip back in time driving these classic cars today.  My wife has a friend who saw mcoupe and mentioned how sharp it looked.  She said not bad for a car that was 4 years younger than she was..    I've promised her a ride next week.

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Jim, my favorite plane was a 195 but I never flew one or was ever in one, I just liked their look. You and I are on the same page as are many others on loving to drive the old cars. It brings back my youth. Also you have to actually DRIVE these cars. They require a bit more attention than driving a new car. I like to use the clutch, shift gears, use the overdrive, its all important and requires some skill to use correctly, its fun. Yowls have to be aware of the braking limitations and drive accordly. Driving the old car is not just a way to get from A to B its a way to have fun even if A or B is chore you would rather not do. I like the slow easy pace while driving around town and I like the smiles it puts on others faces as they wave at you or take a picture. I like the windows down and the fresh air which we never put down in our new cars, just turn on the AC. I like the fact that each ride is an adventure in that you are never sure that everything mechanical will work for the duration of the trip, unlike a new car where you never give that a second thought. I still normally drive at 60 or 65 mph even in overdrive as the car just feels like its happy and will do it all day long forever. I have had many hot rods or modified cars and installed AC, power disc brakes, bigger engine, digital gauges etc. I liked those cars BUT I pretty much just turned them into modern reliable cars and they lost their soul. I love this old car because of the lack of all the modern stuff. I'm sure many can relate. Glad to see you are enjoying yours, the coupes are beautiful.

[Jim Nelson]

Well I have one concession to modernize.  Like your area, Tampa / St Petersburg gets hot (? 94) and humid in the summer.  I installed air in my coupe.  I know I know, some will chastise me but as you know, the ole bod does not tolerate extremes any more.  I have had two trips to see the cardiac people.  One was an almost widow maker.  700 miles from home by my self.  Recognized the simptoms and I was in a very small town (not city) and drove myself to the emergency entry.  One stene and back home.  That was a year ago.  Two weeks ago I had similar issues.  Told wife we should go and check it out.  Two more stents.  Enough of this crap.  I got to many things to do. So putting AC in my car was something I needed as well wanted.   What is your excuse.  Your hot but I believe the humidity is fairly low ??.  Love driving my car.  I think I might visit a friend who has an old Buick and needs some help.  Anything to keep those old beautiful cars on the road. YAA man...

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Jim I have many vehicles with AC, they are the ones I normally drive. I have been blessed with great health and haven't need anything yet. I still ride motorcycles more often than drive the Buick. Its hot here but not humid so you don't usually sweat. I don't drive the Buick in the daytime if its over 90 degrees. At night with no sun beating on the car and us I will drive it up to 100 degrees. When I was young we didn't have AC in cars yet, at least none that I was ever in. I like roughing it, I think its real luxury to have a heater. I don't like the heat but I like the fact that I can still handle it.

[Guest]

Dave, doesn't your Buick have 4/50 air conditioning?  Four windows, fifty miles an hour.

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

11 minutes ago, Tinindian said:

Dave, doesn't your Buick have 4/50 air conditioning?  Four windows, fifty miles an hour.

 

Thats what I'm running because its so reliable.

 

[Jim Nelson]

That works as long as you are moving around 50.  Since I'm old and do not tolerate hot and humidity well, I chose the mechanical assist.   I shovel sun and my friends shovel snow.  Been there and done both.  I like my options now I'm old and crotchety.  You to may get there and enjoy it.  

[Jim Nelson]

Of course, mine is 2 and 50 as I only have two doors.  Love them Buicks

[Jim Nelson]

Stopping at our long cycling stop lights makes getting hot an easy item.  Those old fans on the dash were mandatory.  I haven't seen them lately.

[amphigill]

On 2/16/2017 at 7:47 PM, amphigill said:

Pulled it out & shipped on Wed. Lloyd is working on it on today!!

Project finished ! Test drove it & it is Sweet! Car likes 60!Smooth , quiet, a joy to drive!! Thanx Lloyd!! & Robt For selling it to me!! Tom

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

In my opinion it is easily the best modification that can be done to the 38 Buick. It makes the car truly drivable in any type of situation from around town to a long trip on major hi ways. If it already has a decent engine it will extend its life considerably. Its an intimidating modification but in reality not very hard. Its biggest drawback is its costly, at least twelve hundred dollars and maybe more. I have over two thousand miles on our overdrive with no problems and its the main reason why I will never get rid of this car in favor of another. Its got nice lines, a floor shift, coil suspension on all four corners and can be driven anywhere on any road, pretty cool for a pre war car. When I got it and first drove it I knew that I wouldn't keep it unless it could go just a little faster without overworking the engine, the overdrive was the answer. Here is a couple of pictures last night at about 1 am, we decided to cruise the STRIP and just ride around for a couple of hours since it was so nice out.

[Jim Nelson]

Yup, as I had mine done a year ago.  It so nice driving 60-65 and keeping up with traffic.  Central Florida is a busy place to drive.  I took a Club (36-38) ride from Tampa Fla to Murfreesboro Tn. in Sept labor day 2015.  700+ miles each way.  No sweat.  The only problem was cooling here in the south.  I found out that I needed a 60 series radiator in place of my 40 series.  Difference?  40 series is two core thick and the 60 series is 3 core thick..  50% more cooling area.  With that the cooling issure is solved

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

JIM, The stock radiator works fine even in Las Vegas if the engine block is clean and the water pump is good. Temps over a hundred are even fine if the car is moving. 

[mcdarrunt]

I went the open drive shaft and later rear end with my 37 but like your set up better. Mine has been driven many thousands of miles with no problems but it took much more fabrication and doesn't have the transmission, clutch, or floor shift anymore. In other words almost a straight eight modified while yours is a tweaked stock machine,

and better.  Using my GPS to get a true reading I show 61mph at 2000 rpm with the gearing and tires that are on the car. Do you have any idea what your revs are at 60mph? I usually drive at 2300rpm which keeps me comfortably up with the right lane traffic. There is no doubt that the deep gearing (mine was 4.44:1) was practical in the 30's but these cars are certainly capable of handling  much shallower gearing on modern roads and turn a white knuckle grip on the steering wheel because of cars zooming up from behind to a pleasant cruise.

[Jim Nelson]

Yup, I did not want to get to deep in the weeds.  I wanted to have a 'driving' classic.  I knew that the original had 4.44 rear because roads  and speeds were  about 40 to 45 mph.  My OD system lets me run 2350 rpm at 65 mph..  my car came with the 3.9 rear but that would leave me with a final in the 2.7  or so  not good.  I went back to the 4.44 rear and with the OD  and 30% reduction, it gave me a final around 3.1.  That was acceptable with a 110 hp straight 8 with slow Erving engines of that period.  Good acceleration from a stop but.nice rev's when in cruise.  I drive in ?modern? high speed traffic (Tampa / St. Petersburg)  where 55 to 70 is normal.  Whew.... I wanted the car to look 1938 but at least keep up.  My other mod was to instal air conditioning.  It gets warm and HUMID down here.  Almost every car has AC to survive.  So there in a nut shell is my system.  Thanks to Lloyd Young for his OD systems.  Nothing is perfect.  Buick should have put OD in their cars like A LOT of them did.

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

 

THIS CHART IS FOR A STOCK 1938 BUICK SPECIAL WITH A STOCK  4.44 REAR AXLE RATIO AND STOCK 16 INCH WHEELS AND TIRES 

 

  WITH OVERDRIVE            WITHOUT OVERDRIVE

 

 SPEED            RPM                     RPM

 

40 MPH           1462                     2094

 

45 MPH           1645                     2358

 

50 MPH           1827                     2617

 

55 MPH           2010                     2879

 

60 MPH           2193                     3141 

 

65 MPH           2376                     3402

 

70 MPH           2558                     3664

 

Different tire sizes can alter 

the rpm's up or down but 

not to much

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by LAS VEGAS DAVE (see edit history)

[Jim Nelson]

Thanks Dave for the different mph / rpm.  I have a cheap little 2.25" tach so my guess of around 2350 matches your chart.  Now, how about with the 3.9 rear and no OD.  ???  I had a guy mention that he was considering OD.  My thoughts  were it might be to tall a ratio.  Your 6houghts?

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

stock 3.90 ratio.rtfd.zip

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

2 hours ago, Jim Nelson said:

Thanks Dave for the different mph / rpm.  I have a cheap little 2.25" tach so my guess of around 2350 matches your chart.  Now, how about with the 3.9 rear and no OD.  ???  I had a guy mention that he was considering OD.  My thoughts  were it might be to tall a ratio.  Your 6houghts?

  

3.90 (CENTURY AND ROADMASTER)

 

SPEED                         RPM

 

40MPH                        1839

 

45MPH                        2069

 

50MPH                        2299

 

55MPH                        2529

 

60MPH                        2759

 

65MPH                        2989

 

70MPH                        3219

[Jim Nelson]

Thanks Dave for the different mph / rpm.  I have a cheap little 2.25" tach so my guess of around 2350 matches your chart.  Now, how about with the 3.9 rear and no OD.  ???  I had a guy mention that he was considering OD.  My thoughts  were it might be to tall a ratio.  Your 6houghts?

[Jim Nelson]

Hi Dave,  Well blow me down.  I was doing my pre-trip check out on my '38'.  I installed a aviation unit that has a built in magnet to catch fuzz and small chips from breaking in my totally rebuilt tranny.  I drained the tranny and found  fuzz.  Refilled the tranny.  I drained the OD unit.  It only has around a pint of gear lub.  It came out fairly dark, towards black.  First, all new equipment needs to be drained and have the oils examined for junk.  As I was getting ready to replace the gear oil my mechanic stuck his finger into the 'vent' to check the low part below the plug.  Whoa, he found some thing and used his magnet on a stick to remove it.  

(I'm a bearing guy as I sold them for over 18 years) he removed a small part of the cage.  He went fishing again and got another part of a bearing cage.  Cages keep bearing balls in place as they spin.  SO, finding it was disturbing.  I called Lloyd Young and he said bring it to him and he will fix it.  I'm pulling the OD tomorrow and hitting the road to his shop to get it done (one day fix) and then head back home and get it back on the road.  BTW, OUR 36-38 CLUB is having a getting together next week.  I will deviate my return and stop over for a few days then get home.  Whew, gold I'm retarded - retired and have the time to drive all the country.  This is a 2000 mile jaunt.  Not planned but needed.  What's new?

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

My headlight project is now the project of the month for me. I got them to work really good but because I'm a tinkerer I'm taking it another step further. Picture will be coming soon. Sorry to hear about the overdrive but it will get fixed and you are now on a mission.