Car Values / Condition Reference Guides

[Millhouse76]

Hi everyone I was wondering where the best or most recommended place to find current or yearly vehicle values is. I remember when I was overseas in Germany the Oldtimer Market magazine would publish a yearly reference guide for vehicle values and give them value based off of a 1 through 5 condition. Is there anything like this now. Every now and again Hemmings puts something out but its vehicle specific. I would love to hear from you all.

I'm looking specifically for values for 1915, 1916, 1925, 1931, and 1932 Willys but would love a one stop place to find just about all makes and values.

Thanks

Ryan

Edited December 28, 2014 by Millhouse76 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Personally I don't have much faith in price guides. Sale prices on eBay are a good reference but won't help with your cars. My advice would db to ask some Willys club guys.

[Guest AlCapone]

A Willys is far less prevelant in the marketplace than lets say a Ford Model A. Because of the lack of current sales data a price guide is not likely to have the same accuracy. If I were you, I would ask those people that have particular expertise In just Willys. I am sure the Willys Club members would be happy to help you. Wayne

Edited December 28, 2014 by AlCapone (see edit history)

[TG57Roadmaster]

Ryan,

It's going to be difficult to find a one-stop place for pricing like the Oldtimer Market guide, which is still going strong. I think there is a place and use for such guides, but most of them cover postwar prices. I recently priced about 20 cars for an estate ranging from 1937 to 2004 and found very little for the prewar cars, other than auction results and asking prices. These were popular-make cars, so for prewar Willys it would be a good idea to follow the other posters leads to contact that marque's club members. You can still search the major and minor auction houses for results.

Try PreWarCar.us for cars in the States...

and the Collector Car Market Review for postwar pricing.

I need to get a new Oldtimer Markt Preise guide as my 2009 and 2011 versions are way out of date,

but still good reference for obscure European makes and models. Have to wait for March for the 2015 issue.

Thanks for bringing the OMP up,

TG

[llskis]

I would love to hear from you all.

would love a one stop place to find just about all makes and values.

Thanks

Ryan

In a few short weeks we will have B-J at AZ and Mecum Auctions in Kissimmi FL. We should see all types of Cars/Trucks in different stages of restoration. I will

be keeping a close eye on these auctions. Larry

[capngrog]

In a few short weeks we will have B-J at AZ and Mecum Auctions in Kissimmi FL.

What's a "B-J at AZ"?

Puzzled,

Grog

[caddyshack]

Barrett Jackson in Arizona

[Curti]

What's a "B-J at AZ"?

Puzzled,

Grog

Barrett Jackson Arizona.

[capngrog]

Barrett Jackson in Arizona

Oh good, I thought it might have been something else since the other event was spelled out.

All clear now,

Grog

[Mark Shaw]

31 & 31 Willy's can be found here...

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1931/Willys-Overland

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1932/Willys-Overland

[Kimo]

Values are so hard to pin down since the word has so many meanings. What is the value of a car to a person who has an emotional attachment for example it is the actual car his grandfather bought and drove, or what is the value if a car were sold at a big auction in terms of the selling price or in terms of the cash that finally would up in the seller's pocket (there is a big spread taking into account the big fees the auction charges the seller and the taxes taken out), or what it the value if you found a person with a huge budget and who desperately wanted that particular car, or what is the value if you were to sell it to a dealer or a picker, or what is the value if you sold it locally at a small auction, etc. etc. The amount of cash you get in your pocket at the end of the day will vary widely depending on these and other factors. You also have the challenge of the Willys brand not being seen by many as "the one" in the way it would be if it were a more popular and avidly sought maker.

[sambarn]

Ryan, I am going to make a guess that you have inherited a quantity of cars or are at least the new caretaker of a preexisting collection. I have been in that situation before and going to the marque specific clubs where your cars are well known and understood can make all the difference in the world. The WOKR, Willys Overland Knight Registry is a great group of people who are going to truly understand what you have and what it's value for estate appraisal or sales would be. They have a web site and I have a few contacts among them if you are unable to contact them. Photographs will go a long way in assisting with this process. I appreciate Kimo's input but I assure you, in 90% of old car transactions there is an accepted level of value for each and every transaction and most people involved are well aware of the prices and availability for each part. The Willys may seem odd-ball or rare but they are in fact quite plentiful and desirable and there is a great breadth of value for them. This forum can give you a close appraisal on many items and we love the fun game that is car, part and value identification but I think you will be best suited talking to them. If you do, please come back here and tell us about it.

[wayne sheldon]

I have never seen a value guide that was worth a dime. Frankly, most appraisers I have met aren't much better. And I have met too many.

As far as value guides go. If I could actually buy a lot of cars in fair condition for what they say they are worth, I could buy and resell a bunch of them and make a million dollars. I have seen early brass era Ts valued in these guides for a few hundred dollars. I am talking about cars that you couldn't buy the engine pan alone for the price. I am also referring to restorable Packards and Pierce Arrows listed at under a thousand bucks. Okay, that was a few years ago, but you couldn't find one available for their quote at five times the price then either. Totally on the other hand, those same books would price a marginal to decent restoration on many cars for two to three times what I knew of several cars were available for. And they were NOT selling.

As for appraisers. I have met a few, and personally know one, that I like, admire, and would trust what they say. The rest? Lets just say that I have heard the phrase "Show me another one just like it for (that much money)" way too many times. An example (just one, but the general scenario has played out with me nearly a dozen times). A fellow is trying to sell a 1924 Dodge sedan that has been in the family for awhile. The car is certainly old, but not Horseless Carriage old. It is marginally desirable (please, I mean no offense to the four cylinder Dodge crowd, I like them). It was badly painted a bad shade of purple (I am not kidding! I saw the car!). The interior is only partially redone (also badly). It runs and is driveable, but does not look like any major restoration was ever done.

So what does the fellow want for this gem? $48,000. The "professional appraiser", to whom he had paid actual money, is there with him. I did not know the "appraiser" was there when I tried to politely tell him that price was a bit high (really, he asked my opinion and I was polite and tried to be gentle). It was then that the fellow introduced me to his "appraiser". Guess what the "appraiser" said to me? "Show me another one just like it for less than $48,000."

I have always said that an antique automobile is worth what you can find two people willing to pay. One fool with more money than brains doesn't count. If you can find two people willing to pay that, then maybe it is worth it.

It takes a lot of solid understanding of the tiny nuances that separate a $5000 car from a $15,000 car to be able to truly appraise these things. Rare does NOT mean valuable. A beautiful paint job does not mean anyone else will want it if it is a wrong color (sorry, but that is true). I don't care if you did spend $40,000 on the restoration. If not done properly, you wasted a lot of money. Even if you did do it properly, you probably can't get most of your money back out of it (that is just a sad fact of life). A car is still only worth what you can actually sell it for.

Whether a car is restored, or unrestored. A few good photographs posted on an appropriate forum (such as this one) will probably get several good estimates of real worth.

Good luck.

Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2

[alsancle]

Good points. Matt reminded me of a car I bought 25 years ago. It was a 70 Boss 302 that had spent a good part of its life on jack stands in a garage. This was 1989 and muscle car prices were rising daily. The guy wasn't sure what it was worth do I showed him the latest price guide. He agreed to the #4 condition value since it was not a runner. I was very very happy. In fact, I feel guilty now telling that story.

[Highlander160]

You have to figure the averages on your own. Find all the cars sold either at auction or in online auctions/ads that say "sold". I would go back maybe 3-4 yrs max. Find 10 cars and divide the total sale prices by 10. That gives you a broad average. Beware of specials or 1 off types as they don't fully represent averages. I did this with a relatively easy car to average out, a 65 Pontiac GTO. With mine heading toward a restored but 'day 2' car I came up with an average value of $31,500 rounded up or down to the nearest $500. Private sales are harder to track down. Unless you know or talk to one of the parties involved you may not get the right answer. Don't use "...and he only paid $XXX.00 for it..." from any level of hearsay. Even those involved my inflate or deflate the result for their own reasons.