keiser31 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 This Citroen must have been built on a Friday....or the assembly line guys were on LSD.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Looks like a typical French car to me. Bill Mitchell said they all looked like they were designed by pastry chefs, maybe that one sat in the sun too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 What do you expect from one armed boxers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 A result of too much cheap cognac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I just spent a week in Paris. What a great picture.Actually I thought that was a "pancake engine". Attached is a Commer TS3 "Boxer engine". I thought boxers were punching towards one another not apart????Of course I am being an old fogey or cormudgon but we seem to misspeak so much of our language. I have never been a gardner so I have no idea what a "pumpkin" has to do with a differential. I believe that we have two door and four door cars and if they don't have door posts they are hardtops.[ATTACH=CONFIG]252058[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I thought the "boxer" was like two men back to back with their elbows tied together, alternately punching left then right.you need a 4 cyl pancake engine (opposed 4) with the crank throws 180 degrees apart. See the 2 cyl Citroen above. Add a rod and piston to the back of each, on the same throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I always thought boxer motor meant the layout was square like a box. Not in a V shape or I shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillP Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 In conventional automotive usage, boxer is a flat (as opposed to inline or V) engine with opposed cylinders. Examples include Ferrari, Corvair, Porsche, VW, Subaru and of course that 2CV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DriveAG Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Saw that particular car along with several other wackey interpretations of Art at the National Car Museum in Reno back in June 2011. It really catches the eye.Concerning boxer engines. It is Jargon and Semantics and we should not get hung up on it. Normally boxer means pairs of pistons going outward and inward together such as the animation. I.e. a host of early cars, BMW motorcycle, VW, 2Cv, Subaru, and Porche "Boxer" as well as many, many others.. Very good balance, especially if the crank-web within the pair is joggled and the wrist pins offset in the pistons to bring the pistons nearly in line with each other. Opposed piston engines such as the Gabron or Fairbanks Morse need more explaining and I refer to them as opposed pistons but as I said, they need explaining....... The Fararri is more of a 180 degree V-12 since the pairs of connecting rods are on the same crank, so one goes in when the other goes out. With 12 cylinders, things seem to be smooth enough but a two cylinder under this plan would be very hard to balance if it is possible at all. But it is all jargon and there is no police to enforce your particular use of the term: boxer. (Porche probably has a TM on Boxer when used as a car model.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 "Very good balance, especially if the crank-web within the pair is joggled and the wrist pins offset in the pistons to bring the pistons nearly in line with each other". The early Lincoln used "Fork and Blade" connecting rods to line up the centers of adjacent rods/pistons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 On the French cars, I remember a quote from the 1960's: "The French copy no one, and no one copies the French!"Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Is that really someone's mis-creation?It looks like it could be the result ofphoto-editing software and a silly sense of humor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DriveAG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Is that really someone's mis-creation?It looks like it could be the result ofphoto-editing software and a silly sense of humor!It is very real, I have seen it and taken several pictures. I would regard it as more Rolling Art than a useful car. Once seen, you are not likely to forget the experience and it may take a while for your eyeballs to stop spinning."Very good balance, especially if the crank-web within the pair is joggled and the wrist pins offset in the pistons to bring the pistons nearly in line with each other". The early Lincoln used "Fork and Blade" connecting rods to line up the centers of adjacent rods/pistons.It is unfortunate that you cannot use Fork and Blade on a boxer since the two pistons of a pair are on different crank pins that are 180 Deg. apart. As such, the pistons are always slightly (or hugely) out of line and there is a vibration couple associated with the offset, especially on two cylinder engines. But the nice thing is that even with the offset, the boxer is the best balanced configuration for a two cylinder engine. Edited June 10, 2014 by DriveAG (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I'll bet Picasso drove it during his cubist period.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I believe Fred Lanchester designed a 2 cylinder, opposed engine in which the cylinders were not offset. One cylinder had a conventional rod, the other had 2 rods, one on each side. The crank pins were opposite each other so the pistons went in and out together. I don't know if they ever built it, but theoretically it would be perfectly balanced. This was back in the early days of autos, about 1900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DriveAG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I believe Fred Lanchester designed a 2 cylinder, opposed engine in which the cylinders were not offset. One cylinder had a conventional rod, the other had 2 rods, one on each side. The crank pins were opposite each other so the pistons went in and out together. I don't know if they ever built it, but theoretically it would be perfectly balanced. This was back in the early days of autos, about 1900.Thanks for reminding me, I had overlooked that one. Actually he had two crankshafts geared together and three rods per piston for a total of six rods. Two rods from each piston went to one crankshaft and the third (center) rod on that piston went to the other crank in a fork and blade concept (except, instead of a forked rod, it is two separate rods, this way you also have a outer-center arrangement on the gudgeon pin and they have free motion on both ends.) As I recall the phasing of the pistons was not as simple as a normal boxer engine but I would have to spend some time with pencil and paper to work it our. Both pistons reached TDC and BDC together but how they got there was complicated. The motion was essentially like taking your the thumbs and forefinger of each hand and placing them fingertip to fingertip and thumb-tip to thumb-tip and moving your hands together and apart forming an opening and closing rhombus with your fingers and thumbs. He indeed manufactured and sold these as either air-cooled (early) or later water cooled. Other interesting features was the valve system where there was a Master Valve mechanically operated and both the inlet and the exhaust were automatic check valves leading off the channel controlled by the master valve. Edited June 10, 2014 by DriveAG (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john2dameron Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 This Citroen must have been built on a Friday....or the assembly line guys were on LSD....No worse (or better) than the Harlequin Volkswagens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I don't care about the technical discussion: boxer or .... ? That Deux Chevaux (did I spell that correctly?) is so ugly that it's cool. I want one ... I've always liked the 2CV Citroens, but don't know why.Cheers,Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 My mistake, I had the Lanchester design mixed up with one John Bond created for Road & Track in the late fifties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DriveAG Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I believe Fred Lanchester designed a 2 cylinder, opposed engine in which the cylinders were not offset. One cylinder had a conventional rod, the other had 2 rods, one on each side. The crank pins were opposite each other so the pistons went in and out together. I don't know if they ever built it, but theoretically it would be perfectly balanced. This was back in the early days of autos, about 1900.My mistake, I had the Lanchester design mixed up with one John Bond created for Road & Track in the late fifties.I had not heard of that one. The only way that I can get it to work in my mind is that there would be three crank pins for two pistons, the outer two together and opposite the one in the middle. You could do this with a forked rod that is very wide at the big end and goes to the two outer crank pins or as you said, with two separate rods on one piston going to the outer crank pins. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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