Guest 38buick55special Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Hey guys got a lot accomplished this week as far as electrical. Running lights, head lights brake lights. While I was moving the car I realized a pretty bad coolant leak right near the starter, any clue as to where it may be coming from? It seems to be behind the starter. If that makes any sense....is there a freeze out plug there? Don't really want to remover the starter unless I absolutely need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Buick Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Hey guys got a lot accomplished this week as far as electrical. Running lights, head lights brake lights. While I was moving the car I realized a pretty bad coolant leak right near the starter, any clue as to where it may be coming from? It seems to be behind the starter. If that makes any sense....is there a freeze out plug there? Don't really want to remover the starter unless I absolutely need to.There is a freeze plug behind the starter, and is likely your problem. Yes, you have to remove the starter...Get a leak-tester tool for this job. It runs off a compressor to fill the coolant system with pressure - a modified cap goes on the radiator and gets a squirt of air to build up pressure without having to start the engine and heat things up. That way, you can be sure a new freeze plug in holding water before you put the starter back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 There is indeed a plug above and inboard of the starter. Removing the starter is not a biggie. much easier than removing the head to replace the gasket, which is also a possible source of your leak.................bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 38buick55special Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Ok, Bob please don't say that LoL I will have to pull the starter and check it out. Any suggestions or tips?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 There are 4 in the block, might as well go ahead and buy them. Do NOT try to use a rubber expansion plug, it won't clear the starter. Use only the original style cup plug. You will probably find that the plug is covered with sediment and the block will need to be cleaned out and flushed good. If it is rusted through, you will need to replace all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 The plugs can be removed by punching or drilling a hole in the center and prying them out. TexJohn is most likely correct it will be cruddy in there. The thing is if you disturb all that sludge you really should disconnect your radiator and flush the block or risk plugging your radiator. Once the plug is out you must clean the counter bore it sits in with a wire brush very well. I like to coat the counter bore with Aviaton Permatex before seating the plug. Others like silicone gasket maker. The plug is seated with the dome up and the center is hit firmly with a dull punch to dimple the dome and expand the plug. What works well is using the pein end of a ball pein hammer as the punch and hitting it with a brass or copper hammer.I've never done the job with the engine in place. Others may comment but I imagine it is not a walk in the park because of the confined spaces. With the engine in a test stand it's very straight forward.................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 The plugs can be removed by punching or drilling a hole in the center and prying them out. TexJohn is most likely correct it will be cruddy in there. The thing is if you disturb all that sludge you really should disconnect your radiator and flush the block or risk plugging your radiator. Once the plug is out you must clean the counter bore it sits in with a wire brush very well. I like to coat the counter bore with Aviaton Permatex before seating the plug. Others like silicone gasket maker. The plug is seated with the dome up and the center is hit firmly with a dull punch to dimple the dome and expand the plug. What works well is using the pein end of a ball pein hammer as the punch and hitting it with a brass or copper hammer.I've never done the job with the engine in place. Others may comment but I imagine it is not a walk in the park because of the confined spaces. With the engine in a test stand it's very straight forward.................Bob I flushed my block with a garden hose and strong stream from a nozzle and put a piece of panty hose in the top radiator neck for a filter. If plugs are out on both sides you can do a pretty good job of flushing it out but you will get wet in the process. My cup plugs had a 1/4" lip on them to seal and were driven in cup down into the block. The other style of expansion plugs have no lip and are designed to go the other way and be struck in the middle to expand. That requires a bottom step in the plug bore to rest against when you strike it. These engines don't have that and used the lipped plug which is an interference fit. Sanding the bore to smooth up is a necessity and the use of aviation permatex or similar sealer is required to assure a good seal. If you drive in one side of the plug, the other side will pop out so you can get ahold of it. And if I remember correctly you will need to remove the oil filter canister from the other side for access. If you don't find alot of sediment covering the rear plugs you may not have to remove the front ones but would be advised for thorough flushing. Normally the reason for the plugs to rust through is due to sediment covering them. That is likely the reason that the rear ones leak first because of the engine tilt and sediment build up at the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 As I now recall TexJohn is correct that the Buicks use a lipped type cup rather than dome. My bad...................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 As noted, removing the starter is the easy part. I would not even consider doing it 'lizard style' (cardboard or creeper)! A lift or service pit or some of Shadetree's stands so that you can sit under the car is a must. I will try to get buick5563 to detail the procedure and proper tool for the job on a nailhead.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I would be interested in that proceedure. I had one leaker on the 56's passengers side and put a rubber expansion plug in two years ago. I would like to get that thing out of there, although It does seem to hold up pretty good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Sorry guys, I was busy working on a 55 to try and deliver by Christmas. Here is a picture of the tools that I used to install freeze plugs in an installed nailhead. Are they necessary? No, but they sure help a lot.At the back of the picture is my curved box end wrench to get the top bolt out of the starter. Easy and fast. Hell, that is the easiest freeze plug to install (once the starter is out).The next thing you want is an expansion plug installer. You can rent one or buy the set on eBay or O'Reillys. I used super tack gasket sealant.The hardest one to install is the one on the driver's side manifold behind the heat valve.The plugs I just replaced were completely rotted and extremely difficult to remove. I spent a long time with a screwdriver busting it to pieces and then used channel locks and vise grips (and four-letter words of your choice) to remove them. I had the car on a two post lift, so I was able to pull out a bunch of crud THEN use a garden hose to wash the block as well as I could.I am not sure this can be done with the car on the ground without these tools. I know it took me about two hours to do all four plugs...Here are the tools:This is what we are talking about:This is the finished result: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Good job, Mike! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 38buick55special Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Thanks guys so much for all your posts. I will be tackling this job fairly soon, just waiting for this snow to get through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flivver250 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Nothing more satisfying than wrenching gone right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 38buick55special Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 So today I finally got down to do a little bit of work on the Buick. I brought my pressure tester from work and pumped up the system. Unfortunately to my dismay, I found 3 of the freeze out plugs have let go. 1 is on the left head next to one of the rear spark plugs. The other is behind the starter, and the cake topper is the one in the rear of the right head behind the tranny dipstick bracket. Where should I go from here? I don't think I have any other option but to pull the heads..... Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Leave the heads on, and pull the engine and replace all of em at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Leave the heads on, and pull the engine and replace all of em at once.DITTO!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 38buick55special Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 My problem with doing that is once the motor is out I am gonna want to rebuild the motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 For the rear of the head freeze plug, bolt a steel plate with gasket to the back to cover the plug. The heads are interchangeable right to left and this is the same place that the water crossover manifold is attached. Pulling heads or engines is a pain and you can't drive it while disassembled .Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 For the rear of the head freeze plug, bolt a steel plate with gasket to the back to cover the plug. The heads are interchangeable right to left and this is the same place that the water crossover manifold is attached. Pulling heads or engines is a pain and you can't drive it while disassembled .WillieWillie, excellent suggestion! Much better than mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 One problem with the plate suggestion is while it will keep the water from escaping the head it will not seal the leak. The leak will continue and corrosion will eat away at the plug hole ruining the head for fixing it the correct way in the future without re-machining the hole to clean it up and hoping to find or fabricate a new and larger plug...................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 One problem with the plate suggestion is while it will keep the water from escaping the head it will not seal the leak. The leak will continue and corrosion will eat away at the plug hole ruining the head for fixing it the correct way in the future without re-machining the hole to clean it up and hoping to find or fabricate a new and larger plug...................BobBob, In theory if may be a problem, but in practice (4years) there were no issues....it was wet under the plate and the center of the plug was weak. Maybe if the leak was at the edge of the plug it would erode the hole in the head...if it did, just use on the other side .Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I'm just sayin..................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 38buick55special Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) So I think I am going to pull the motor and have it rebuilt. I figure if I gotta pull it I might as well. I already have the set of freeze out plugs. Now I have to look for a rebuild kit. Any suggestions?? Edited January 21, 2014 by 38buick55special (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Egge Machine and Kanter and others have kits, but stay away from the Ebay vendors. A better way would be to extract the engine, disassemble, measure and see what you need. Many of the parts can be sourced by the machine shop, available locally from NAPA, and listed by RockAuto. A little 'leg-work' will save a lot. The machine shop will measure and show some wear on the cylinders and will want to bore, but that early nailhead will respond well to reuse of the pistons with new rings if wear is less than 0.006 inch.More tips as you get into it. It is OK to ask about each and every part...Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 38buick55special Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Thanks Willie, much appreciated I believe that's what I'll do. Just have to move some stuff in the garage around. Gonna need the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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